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Futures vs Forex. Who is more liquid

  • #21
  • Aug 18, 2007 12:04pm Aug 18, 2007 12:04pm
Quoting tonyj
Joe Ross has been ranting against the FX.
Link?
  • #22
  • Aug 18, 2007 12:20pm Aug 18, 2007 12:20pm
Quoting THE FxORCE
that is a really cool video MD.
how close is that to real time replay?
in forex we didn't have time to reverse our positions. they spiked, gapped and ran. that was a rough NFP for me.
Well i just talked to a veteran 10 year note trader and he said he doesn't know why anyone trades forex especially around numbers.
i've owned businesses before and i know one thing is for sure. when you have ease of access to forex vs futures and advertising on the net for forex is greater than futures you are most likely getting an inferior product at the expense of promotions driving sales for the almighty bottom line. i hate to let the real "secret" out but that's what it is. top of mind awareness. it's not a book about wishing to get things. it's about top of mind awareness. if you constantly think you are going to do well you'll find ways to do well. if you are ransacked by a barage of coca cola commercials you're going to be drinking coke sometime in the near future. sorry to all the diabetics out there. still sorry cause diet coke is horrible for you.
sorry for the rant. if we step back and take a non biased look at things like the market or marketing on our televisions we see the clear picture. it takes time to sort out the noise at first. after a while you can see that all politics are garbage and you'll be farther ahead to tune them out.
sorry, ranting again.
let's get this thread going. it's the truth we're after.
if you think 1000 of us moving to futures to trade bonds and t notes is going to upset the market you not only are ignorant but you have no place here. that is my final point about freedom of information on this forum.
thanks,
jeff swanson
Jeff:
I just popped in on a reply above. I'm an octogenarian who made mine
and left the commodity market over 20 years ago. I am a P&L'er....an
old time disciple of Charles Drummond, probably the only real genius of
the markets. I'm only over here on the forex as a look-see. I'm working
on my book...looking at the market as Price equals the function of time
P=f(t). It's a Cartesian Coordinate Method. Joe Ross has been ranting
against the forex for years...and I've carried his message over here on
other forums, although I disagree with him. To me, it seems that the
little guy with only a couple hundred dollars has a better chance over
here in the forex. He couldn't even get near the door of the futures
let alone to get inside. He wouldn't have the capital. Another thing...
the futures is loaded with gaps and limits. I got blown out of the box
so many times trading in the futures that I've forgotten . I do not know
the futures market today. I do know that the Point and Line Methodology
that worked in the commodities worked easier over here on the forex.
What is your input....?
ciao
tonyj
  • #23
  • Aug 21, 2007 10:41am Aug 21, 2007 10:41am
Quoting tonyj
MCP:

Joe Ross has been ranting against the FX. What is your input in regard
Forex vs Futures.
ciao
tonyj
sorry, i dont know & dont care about joe and his rants. i trade the 6E however i keep a look at the cash fx. Trader KGB talked about two platforms that are bringing down the price of trading the cash mkt and w/ the fxmarketspace platform from reuters/cme its lowering the cost of trading the cash. it just about my P&L and keeping my net as high as i can.

MCP
  • #24
  • Aug 22, 2007 10:33am Aug 22, 2007 10:33am
Sorry I asked....perhaps the broom didn't make out with the dustpan....what
with the world screaming through tight lips. Or perhaps, the canary singing
in bass, really had just a sore throat. Nevertheless, may your coffers still keep on singing its high and lofty sonatina and your purses stay overweight.
  • #25
  • Aug 22, 2007 2:00pm Aug 22, 2007 2:00pm
I don't understand
Quoting tonyj
Sorry I asked....perhaps the broom didn't make out with the dustpan....what
with the world screaming through tight lips. Or perhaps, the canary singing
in bass, really had just a sore throat. Nevertheless, may your coffers still keep on singing its high and lofty sonatina and your purses stay overweight.
  • #26
  • Aug 22, 2007 3:25pm Aug 22, 2007 3:25pm
tony, im sorry i was rude in my answer. i shuld have said that i dont realy follow others opins. heck the guy could be great at giving advice?

MCP
  • #27
  • Edited 1:07pm Aug 23, 2007 12:55pm | Edited 1:07pm
MCP:
Evidently this forum covers more than just the forex. The question asked was
an opinion by you or anyone else as to "what advantage" of the two markets
...futures or forex as a trading vehicle. I brought up Joe Ross because he is
so vehemently against the forex. I disagree with Joe Ross. I follow his chat
box because he is very knowledgeable about the markets. He has written a
number of books and he is a very good writer. And I carried his message
against forex on various forex forums. All I got from forex traders was a
ho-hum. Since there are a few commodity traders on this forum...I wanted
an opinion. I really don't know the commodity market as that traded today.
I made mine over twenty years ago in the commodities and am financially
independent as a result. I was very curious about forex market and wonder-
ed if the plan that I used in the futures would work in the currencies. I was
really amazed in that it worked better. But I went thru hell while trading
the futures market. As a result, my advice is to "Stay out of the markets
....you probably don't belong in it". Of course you don't like or want to
heard it. Have you had anyone tell you to "Stay Out"? Of course not.
And what about all the books on trading the market? As good as Joe Ross
is in writing his books.....they all sound great until you try it. In other
words....all these guys are singing the same song....only each one is
singing the same damn thing in his own voice. Look at all the testimonials
with each one exactly alike. I made my small fortune trading the futures...
and do I think that it was worth it? My answer.....NO. Yet, I'm working on
a book to do just that....after I begin the very beginning: "STAY OUT OF
THE MARKET....YOU PROBABLY DON'T BELONG IN IT'. But if you insist....
here is one way to do it. After I explain in full detail the odds against one
...hopefully the reader will take my first advice. Either way....I hope it
will help him or her.
ciao
tonyj
  • #28
  • Aug 23, 2007 1:48pm Aug 23, 2007 1:48pm
Quoting tonyj
I really don't know the commodity market as that traded today.
I made mine over twenty years ago in the commodities and am financially
independent as a result.
So what have you been doing the past 20 years? And if you did so well in the commodities markets 20 years ago, why did you leave them?
  • #29
  • Aug 24, 2007 12:59pm Aug 24, 2007 12:59pm
Quoting Trader KGB
So what have you been doing the past 20 years? And if you did so well in the commodities markets 20 years ago, why did you leave them?
KGB:

Because I made enough....way beyond my expectation. If you make it in
the market (that is...if you last that long), you'll find out what I described
here in this forum. You'll find out some other facts. You'll find out how hard
it is to live with yourself and the whole "mind game". You'll find out how
hard it is to change your "life style"....from the days of going hungry, of
remembering rubbing two nickles together. Of now...seeing people go
hungry, living in rat infested shacks and you can't do anything about it.
(I spend my winters in Bangkok). But you'll also find out that it is a lot
easier to live on less than on more. But, that you'll learn that money is
not the answer. However....if you're lucky, you'll learn that this poker
game with Lucifier can get you, closer to God, no matter if you
are a Christian, Hebrew, Buddhist, Muslim or any other religion. That is if
you didn't bargain your soul....
Just remember this: Lucifier is banging away at the piano, and laughing
like HELL while you are trying to figure out which door to open. And the
odds are that you'll choose the wrong door. And Lucifier will try like
HELL to make sure that you choose the wrong door. Now for penitence,
you make 2 Our Fathers and 4 Hail Mary's....and again open that door
to the confession booth and save your soul. GLORY ALLELUIA. Amen.
  • #30
  • Aug 30, 2007 7:50am Aug 30, 2007 7:50am
Now how was that for an answer?
  • #31
  • Aug 31, 2007 12:21pm Aug 31, 2007 12:21pm
Quoting WTB
Now how was that for an answer?
WTB: I clicked your position.....AND MY COMPUTER WENT THE WAY OF THE
COMPUTER NYMPHOLEPSY...."dead...kaput". Wow...this guy WTB is some
hacker. This guy nailed me to the wall as if I was Jesus Christ himself and
was about to climb back on the cross and hang myself. I don't know if you
are a HACKER....but if you are....you sure are a good one. If you are one...
I'd be be interested in your technique than your trading vibes. However,
I don't think I would be interested in meeting you at the O.K. Corral. That
would be like getting too close to the village undertaker.
ciao
Tonyj
  • #32
  • Aug 31, 2007 12:53pm Aug 31, 2007 12:53pm
Quoting adeola89
I don't understand
adeola89: A bit late in acknowledgement.... If this was a live audience
and you had said, " I don't understand"?........I would probably say to you
"Don't try to understand what I said.....listen to the music in my voice".
But jokes aside....the statement was a heretic pun with the English language,
like a Knight in Rusty Armour.....without an oil-can in sight.
ciao
Tonyj
  • #33
  • Sep 1, 2007 12:40pm Sep 1, 2007 12:40pm
tony, getting back a littel on point.

the fx markets both cash and futures are kind of like this: There is a creek and a park across from my home (funny they call the road lakeside dr. when its just a creek) ok, it dranes into turtle creek and turtle creek dranes into the trinity river. the trinity river flows to the gulf of mexico and on to the ocean. if someone is fishing in this creeek there not deep sea fishing in the oceans even though the water is conected to the ocean.

in the overall fx market people think that they are playing in the 4 trillion mkt w/ billions in liquidity but they only have the few millions of the liquidity of the trading dealing desk of their broker or maby they use a larger ECN for a larger pool of money, some play the the true inter-bank hook up w/a Reuters 3000 Xtra, and central banks deal w/the BIS. so, again just becouse someone makes a trade w/ their broker dosent mean they are trading in the liquidity of the full 4 trillion forex market.

the futures market is just in the billions per day, but its as close to the deep water you can get for the true price movements of the cash fx markets a indivdual can get w/out many millions of dollars in their acount.

MCP
  • #34
  • Sep 1, 2007 1:11pm Sep 1, 2007 1:11pm
Quoting Mezzaninehedge
the futures market is just in the billions per day
Some interesting figures from that big day (Aug 16th):

Hotspot FXi - $50B
Currenex (all hubs) - over $100B
CME FX Futures - $133B notional

http://www.hedgefundsreview.com/publ...ml?page=463297

No reports on the volume done by either EBS or Reuters that day, but one thing is for certain, the ECNs and the CME are hot on their tracks.
  • #35
  • Sep 1, 2007 3:04pm Sep 1, 2007 3:04pm
Trader KGB, thanks form posting the amounts i did not have the time to get the #s.

MCP
  • #36
  • Sep 2, 2007 12:29pm Sep 2, 2007 12:29pm
MCP: There is a big problem with one trading the futures. Mathematicans in
the long past history have been imperative in their assertions that the line
between too points can not have "holes" in it. This, whether open or closed
ends. Both your commodity and stock market are open only a few hours.
Our time goes by the twenty hour period. Thus: you get the gaps and limits
in both of those markets. I remember years ago, when I was trading the
commodities, where I got "blown out of the box" in getting caught trading
"soybeans". I lost everything. Same thing in trading "lumber". Yes...I made
mine in the futures after being in it for almost twenty years. But I do not
know the futures market today. I started trading back then with the sound
of the "clapper boards"....and the guy coming out and shouting the latest.
You got Lucifier laughing "like hell" at all the markets, knowing that he has
all of us by our greedy "balls". And even then...he opens the door wider
than ever with his gusty invitation to HELL when we are losing...unless
you have that "lovely Angel" over our left shoulder to get the "hell" out
with a small loss. Then tomorrow....you can then look up into the sky...
and look for that sign. And this time....the road is towards that golden
meadows and the Meadow Larks are singing.
But...thank you for your analogy. It was a good one, whether fly fishing
or not.
Tonyj
  • #37
  • Sep 8, 2007 4:22am Sep 8, 2007 4:22am
this poem kind of sucks but i had fun, and tonyj is always edutaining; you may have to be a "Linuxtroll Simple Scalping" thread follower to fully appreciate:

after many scrolls through linuxtroll's
posts of rainbows in transition
i get inspired but somewhat tired
of my spine in odd positions

so from trippy charts and housing starts
and shouts of "more screen time!"
i'll spend a day with tonyj,
with leibniz, drummond, and sines/cosines...

(*RickJames300 bows to the sound of genteel clapping*)
  • #38
  • Sep 9, 2007 1:46am Sep 9, 2007 1:46am
Quoting Trader KGB
Some interesting figures from that big day (Aug 16th):

Hotspot FXi - $50B
Currenex (all hubs) - over $100B
CME FX Futures - $133B notional

http://www.hedgefundsreview.com/publ...ml?page=463297

No reports on the volume done by either EBS or Reuters that day, but one thing is for certain, the ECNs and the CME are hot on their tracks.
Just found the comparative figures from EBS. $456B on 8/16! Currenex certainly has their work cut out for them if they really think they'll catch up to EBS by year end...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0b38989e-5...0779fd2ac.html
  • #39
  • Last Post: Sep 20, 2007 1:22pm Sep 20, 2007 1:22pm
To answer the orignal question. Neither has any liquidity during news reports but since spot forex is a "fantasy" market, you have a better change of getting a good fill if your broker is asleep at the wheel.
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