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  • #1,201
  • Oct 22, 2025 6:21am Oct 22, 2025 6:21am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Need to factor in by month 4 in silver you will have $90K in allocations and by month 7 in gold $300K in allocations. This significantly reduces the ROI required...... 0.37% monthly in silver and 0.11% monthly in Gold Once again, the goal is to be a good enough trader to build a track record and obtain much greater AUM through investment......That is the entire goal of trading with Darwinex....if that's not the goal, one should ABSOLUTELY NOT be trading with Darwinex Zero. These minimal seed allocations, bossters and permanent allocations...
Thanks for the tip. Yes, I deliberately only included one month of DarwinIA allocation.

Yes, the long-term goal is millions in capital from third-party investors, and that sounds good at first, but...

- You don't know when or if that will ever happen.
- You have plenty of time in the meantime to trade your Darwinex accounts, especially if you do it manually (time for which you aren't paid and could possibly make better money elsewhere, keyword: opportunity costs).

When you see how little total AuM of investor capital has been collected at Darwinex so far and, even worse, what a small fraction of DARWINs has only been distributed so far despite many DARWINs having performed quite well over several years, I find that a bit sobering and gives little hope that you will really profit from it in the long term.

Not that we're misunderstanding each other again. This isn't meant to be a negative point; I'm currently spending money on it myself, but I'm wondering if it's really worth it.
  • #1,202
  • Oct 22, 2025 6:42am Oct 22, 2025 6:42am
What I also really like about Darwinex: You have complete freedom regarding your trading and don't have to worry about violating drawdown limits or other thousands of rules you've supposedly broken, as is the case with many, if not all, of these remote prop companies.

BUT. In the end, it doesn't earn you any money if you still don't achieve the necessary performance. In addition, EVEN IF you know you can achieve a performance like X% per month, you cannot even say whether that is also the return that your DARWIN will achieve due to the interventions in risk adjustments. My examples show how incredibly difficult it is to earn even a little bit of money despite profitable results.

My personal goal is to be able to live off trading as quickly as possible (I'm not getting any younger), and not just make a few dollars every now and then, which I could also earn doing a thousand other things in just a fraction of the time (e.g., $500/month). I mean, that's a drop in the bucket. I have fixed costs alone of $3,000 per month.

Well, we'll see. I'll keep paying for my DARWIN for now, but I don't really have any hope of making any money from it anytime soon. I mean, I haven't even covered the costs yet.
  • #1,203
  • Oct 22, 2025 7:13am Oct 22, 2025 7:13am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Thanks for the tip. Yes, I deliberately only included one month of DarwinIA allocation. Yes, the long-term goal is millions in capital from third-party investors, and that sounds good at first, but... - You don't know when or if that will ever happen. - You have plenty of time in the meantime to trade your Darwinex accounts, especially if you do it manually (time for which you aren't paid and could possibly make better money elsewhere, keyword: opportunity costs). When you see how little total AuM of investor capital has been collected at...
Another point of view, I'll use my real world experience here.....Let's say ypu have 3 Darwins and are able to generate an average of 2% per month, you'll max out silver by month 3....90K per account *3 accounts* 2% return* 15% PF you'll be earning $810/mo at a cost of $150....it takes another 5 months to reach gold, you max out Gold your 6th month, so now you are 14 months in, so now you are at 300K per account, still 3 accounts, still 2% return, now you are at $2700/mo at a cost of $150.
Don't worry about correlation, change a couple of targets, leave a couple of trades off different accounts and you'll be fine.
None of this is life changing $$$$, but an extra 30-35K annually never hurts, right?
Now, at this point ( or sooner), if you are averaging 2% monthly, approx 27% annually compounded, you should get some investor money, but if you don't......
Repeat the 14 month process, get 3 more, now you are STILL UNDER 2.5 years in and making 60-70K per year....without boosters, permanent allocations or investor capita and without the ridiculousness of consistency rules, payout caps, chance of ban/denied payouts, etc, etc
What % of traders do you really think are earning 60-70K per year with the casino props after 2.5 years? buying, failing, buying again passing, failing, buying again, passing, oh, here's a payout, oops blew it, start over, etc, etc, etc.......
THE NUMBER 1 KEY TO ALL OF THE ABOVE IS YOU NEED TO HAVE/FIND A SYSTEM THAT WILL GENERATE AN AVERAGE OF 2% RISK-ADJUSTED RETURN
I, personally, think I can average 3%, if I stop splitting my focus on the prop firms...they literally take 80% of my focus becuase they are way more difficult
  • #1,204
  • Oct 22, 2025 7:23am Oct 22, 2025 7:23am
Quoting Noisy
What I also really like about Darwinex: You have complete freedom regarding your trading and don't have to worry about violating drawdown limits or other thousands of rules you've supposedly broken, as is the case with many, if not all, of these remote prop companies. BUT. In the end, it doesn't earn you any money if you still don't achieve the necessary performance. In addition, EVEN IF you know you can achieve a performance like X% per month, you cannot even say whether that is also the return that your DARWIN will achieve due to the interventions...
My biggest piece of advice I can give anyone.......forget about the freaking risk engine......My 3 Darwins are 0.64, 2.27 and 1.04 and THEY ALL average 2% monthly.
The down months are completely my fault as I divide my focus elsewhere....as I am a manual trader, these should never happen.
Now, someone using EAs, especially grid/martingale, there will be down months and recovery is more difficult as the risk engine (justifiably so) punishes that style of trading.
If you want a 1:1, reduce size a bit and over time, it will increase, but, once again, it's irrelevant, we are scored PURELY on the % of move we capture from the market, traders with lower multipliers are simply trading larger size....
On my futures account, I trade 2 minins on YM and ES on a 1 million dollar account!!!!! I don't even pay attention to the risk engine and the other day it jumped from 2.14 to 2.27
  • #1,205
  • Oct 22, 2025 7:34am Oct 22, 2025 7:34am
Quoting Noisy
$100,000 Booster costs $1,265/year, not $1,500. ........ How many DARWINS do you currently see achieving these returns sustainably?
//----

i used 1500 for easy math, as mentioned...... if i can make 500$ in performance fees per month for 3 months, the booster is technically free..... my cost would be the booster + 3 months of 62$ subscription fees...... so roughly 1500$........

so at that point if i continue to make 500$, my 62$ usd subscription fee should return 556$ per month....... the 500 to 556 increase is due to the usdgbp conversion rate......

there is a fair chance i can average more than 500 per 100k a month.......

so i'm spending 62$ to make 556$ per month....... hard to see a downside in that.......

i have 5 darwins, 4 in payout stage...... only 1 with silver funding...... they are around 97% correlated...... below is one..... not the best......

i have a tremendous advantage of being able to code......

plus i tend to look at things differently.......h

//-------
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #1,206
  • Oct 22, 2025 8:02am Oct 22, 2025 8:02am
Quoting Noisy
How many DARWINS do you currently see achieving these returns sustainably?
//-----

below is 1 account....... remember, they are 97% correlated...... there is plenty of time left to increase the performance fees........ or lose them all.......
//-------

someone looking at my results above might point out my average win vs my average loss.....

my losses will be few but sometimes large....... a single tweet or news can send the nq several hundred points against me in seconds.......

a couple nq contracts can bite hard...... and quick....... happens about once a month........ those are my few large losses......

keep in mind, in less than 15 seconds i can lower my average loss to less than 200$ and it might cost me less than 100$ total......

so why not just do it to appear looking better.......

cause there are better ways to spend those 15 seconds.......h
//------

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to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #1,207
  • Oct 22, 2025 8:09am Oct 22, 2025 8:09am
Quoting hayseed
{quote} //---- i used 1500 for easy math, as mentioned...... if i can make 500$ in performance fees per month for 3 months, the booster is technically free..... my cost would be the booster + 3 months of 62$ subscription fees...... so roughly 1500$........ so at that point if i continue to make 500$, my 62$ usd subscription fee should return 556$ per month....... the 500 to 556 increase is due to the usdgbp conversion rate...... there is a fair chance i can average more than 500 per 100k a month....... so i'm spending 62$ to make 556$ per month..........
Why to buy boosters unless darwin in a loss? With 1 booster (25K) you can spawn 1 darwin for atleast 2-3 months. Only scenario I see bootsers are helpful when darwin is in drawdown (far from HWM).
  • #1,208
  • Oct 22, 2025 8:54am Oct 22, 2025 8:54am
Quoting sampat
{quote} Why to buy boosters unless darwin in a loss? With 1 booster (25K) you can spawn 1 darwin for atleast 2-3 months. Only scenario I see bootsers are helpful when darwin is in drawdown (far from HWM).
//---

hey sampat...... yes, it might be a good time....... many people including darwinex zero themselves have mentioned it was...... the logic of that is easy to see..... assuming the trades reverse in your favor...... they might not......

but supposed someone's preference is to avoid drawdowns...... where would be a good point of purchase for them.......

possibly extreme spikes , like short squeezes and /or long capitulations attract me......

large fair value gaps on the 240 and 1440 charts can work....... same goes for smt, smart money techniques......

anytime there is an above average chance of reversion to mean within a few days.......

couple weeks ago on some large drop, there were back to back huge fair value gaps down on all the 240 charts..... we paid for one in a single day on reversion to mean trades.......

of course we should not overlook luck.......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #1,209
  • Oct 22, 2025 9:20am Oct 22, 2025 9:20am
Quoting hayseed
if i can make 500$ in performance fees per month for 3 months, the booster is technically free..... my cost would be the booster + 3 months of 62$ subscription fees...... so roughly 1500$
Yes, you see. I haven't even taken the subscription costs into account.

100k Booster: $1,265
Subscription (3 months): $150,00
Total costs (3 months): $1,415

To make the $1,415 with your 100k at a 15% performance fee, you need a +9.4% return (1415/100000/0.15). Thats +3.13% per month (9.4/3) and you haven't earned a dollar yet. This is just to cover the costs!

Now if you want to make $500/month you need to make another +3.3% on top of that.

To make $500/month (including your expenses) you need to make a total return of +6.43% per month.

If you can make +6.43% per month despite the risk engine's interventions and under a target VaR of 6.5%, hats off to you!
  • #1,210
  • Oct 22, 2025 9:20am Oct 22, 2025 9:20am
Quoting hayseed
{quote} //--- hey sampat...... yes, it might be a good time....... many people including darwinex zero themselves have mentioned it was...... the logic of that is easy to see..... assuming the trades reverse in your favor...... they might not...... but supposed someone's preference is to avoid drawdowns...... where would be a good point of purchase for them....... possibly extreme spikes , like short squeezes and /or long capitulations attract me...... large fair value gaps on the 240 and 1440 charts can work....... same goes for smt, smart money...
Good point is after payout if you have drawdown buy booster to keep getting payout. I like boosters better than permanent allocation as HWM for booster is from the point of purchase irrespective your past performance.
  • #1,211
  • Oct 22, 2025 10:54am Oct 22, 2025 10:54am
Quoting hayseed
below is 1 account....... remember, they are 97% correlated.
I was wondering the same thing. If you could trade the same strategy without being penalized for correlation, you could earn more money than just from one Darwin once you have reached the break-even point. You also have more expenses initially but would still only need to achieve the same percentage return to reach the break-even point and start making money.

So if you needed a +9.4% return with 1 Darwin and 1 x 100k Booster to cover the costs for 3 months, you would also only need a +9.4% return with 4 Darwins and 400k Boosters.

Example:

1 Darwin with 1 x 100k Booster: Total costs (3 months): $1,415
Percentage return necessary to cover costs: +9.43% (1415/100000/0.15)

4 Darwin's with 4 x 100k Booster: Total costs (3 months): $5,660
Percentage return necessary to cover costs: +9.43% (5660/400000/0.15)

NOW

In month 4, after covering the costs and thus reached the breakeven point, with 1% further return you would earn $150 (100000*0.01*0.15) for 1 DARWIN. But since you now have 4 Darwins and therefore 400k in total capital available to you, you would now earn $600 (400000*0.01*0.15).

That means four times as much money as with one Darwin once you have the costs covered. You would then still only have to achieve the same total percentage return of +1% to make $600 but distributed among 4 Darwins. Now, 1 Darwin would only need to generate a profit of +0.25% instead of +1%, which makes it easier because you don't have to increase your trades profit targets.
  • #1,212
  • Oct 22, 2025 10:58am Oct 22, 2025 10:58am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} I was wondering the same thing. If you could trade the same strategy without being penalized for correlation, you could earn more money than just from one Darwin once you have reached the break-even point. You also have more expenses initially but would still only need to achieve the same percentage return to reach the break-even point and start making money. So if you needed a +9.4% return with 1 Darwin and 1 x 100k Booster to cover the costs for 3 months, you would also only need a +9.4% return with 4 Darwins and 400k Boosters. Example:...
Did you miss my earlier post? It is actually REALLY hard to be correlated, change the targets on a couple of trades, exclude a couple of trades from some accounts, trade different assets in different accounts, etc.......I have 3 basically the same trading concepts in all and I have never been correlated.
  • #1,213
  • Oct 22, 2025 11:12am Oct 22, 2025 11:12am
Quoting sampat
{quote} Good point is after payout if you have drawdown buy booster to keep getting payout. I like boosters better than permanent allocation as HWM for booster is from the point of purchase irrespective your past performance.
In my opinion, it would be even better with permanent allocations, as these supposedly last FOREVER and once you reach the breakeven point, you would of course earn far more than with 1 Darwin using the same strategy due to the higher capital.

Here is an extreme example (don’t laugh)

100 Darwins with the same strategy and a 100k permanent allocation each

One-time costs for permanent allocations: $199,500 (100*$1995)
Running costs per year: $5,000 (100*$50)
Total costs per year (one-time): $204,500
Percentage return needed to cover costs: +13.63% (204500/10000000/0.15)

Now that you have made +13.63% after 1 year and all costs are covered, you would start making REAL MONEY thanks to $10M of virtual capital allocations divided among your 100 Darwins

Monty should try it out. $204,500 is peanuts for him, considering what he's getting out of the props.
  • #1,214
  • Oct 22, 2025 11:45am Oct 22, 2025 11:45am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Did you miss my earlier post? It is actually REALLY hard to be correlated, change the targets on a couple of trades, exclude a couple of trades from some accounts, trade different assets in different accounts, etc.......I have 3 basically the same trading concepts in all and I have never been correlated.

Yes, you could certainly slightly adjust your strategy with correlation and avoid this, but the point I wanted to make is that the correlation factor supposedly doesn't play a role with the virtual capital allocations that you can purchase through boosters or permanent allocations. Accordingly, you could essentially run an automated system with the same strategy (same entries, exits, etc.) across dozens of Darwins, and after covering the one-time costs, you would earn a lot of money distributed across all Darwins thanks to the capital now available to you.

See my example in the previous post using 100 Darwins with 100 permanent allocations. I just don't think this would be in the spirit of Darwinex, even if they say that you can supposedly create/buy countless Darwins and boosters/PAs and only need a different email address per account. They would then have to bleed through payouts like prop companies. After you've covered the costs once, you then request a payout. With just a 1% profit under $10 million AuM, that would be $15,000 they would have to pay you out. Let's say you have a really good month and make 10%, that's $150,000. Money they would have to pay out without any of the investors ever providing it in REAL money - not just demo/monopoly money as provided from DarwinIA, Boosters or Permanent Allocations.
  • #1,215
  • Oct 22, 2025 12:10pm Oct 22, 2025 12:10pm
Quoting Noisy
You also have more expenses initially but would still only need to achieve the same percentage return to reach the break-even point and start making money. .......Here is an extreme example (don’t laugh)
//-----

yes, i believe that is the case........ but you are putting way more thought in it than me......

your extreme example is a valid concern of mine...... one which i have given much thought..... at what point will darwin limit the accounts......

my accounts will always be in the high 90's correlated...... it's not from running ea's...... it's from common sense...... if the ym is a perfect sell in one account, why wouldn't it be a perfect sell in all......

i see no true worthwhile benefit in avoiding correlation, for me...... i give it no thought...... the risk ratio, var, and any other metric, i give no thought......

if comparing the metatrader history results of all 5 accounts, they are different..... they are not copy trading..... the trades clearly show that...... results clearly show that...... i give it no thought.......

the only thing i focus on, other than entry and exit is , after covering the minor reasonable costs, i'm spending 62 to get 500 per month....... some months maybe more ....... some months maybe less......

like metallica says, nothing else matters......

to me........h
//------

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to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #1,216
  • Oct 22, 2025 12:40pm Oct 22, 2025 12:40pm
Quoting hayseed
yes, i believe that is the case.
Yes, I've heard from some people that they have multiple Darwins and have bought boosters or permanent allocations. I already asked Darwinex myself, and they said there is no limit, but the question is whether it would be worth the risk to create so many Darwins and buy additional permanent allocations, only to end up having payouts denied / Darwin's deleted.

As a manual trader, I wouldn't consider this option anyway, as there would be too many accounts to trade simultaneously. As an automated trader, I think it could make sense, provided you have some security that you won't lose your upfront payments and, once compensated, you can even make money from them.

May I ask how you feel about Darwinex's fees? You trade Forex, right? I've noticed that I pay ridiculously high fees with Darwinex compared to other brokers. I exclusively trade stock indices and, more recently, gold, and here's an overview of my fees paid (commissions/swap)

Darwinex

Current Balance
$106,316.65
Highest Balance
$107,383.13
Capital Flows
Deposits / Withdrawals
$100,000.00 / $0.00
Commissions & Swap
-$2,271.34 / -$192.03

Here is my other broker with whom I trade the same strategy but on a 10k account.

Afterprime

Current Balance
$10,886.03
Highest Balance
$10,925.24
Capital Flows
Deposits / Withdrawals
$10,000.00 / $0.00
Commissions & Swap
-$8.33 / $0.00

Quoting hayseed
my losses will be few but sometimes large.
Sounds to me like you're part of the "Martingale" faction? Lots of small wins and then potentially a few big losses to give it all back.
  • #1,217
  • Oct 22, 2025 12:59pm Oct 22, 2025 12:59pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Did you miss my earlier post? It is actually REALLY hard to be correlated, change the targets on a couple of trades, exclude a couple of trades from some accounts, trade different assets in different accounts, etc.......I have 3 basically the same trading concepts in all and I have never been correlated.
if I trade 1 asset, change the targets on a couple of trades, exclude a couple of trades from some accounts, does it work for not to be correlated?
  • #1,218
  • Oct 22, 2025 1:12pm Oct 22, 2025 1:12pm
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Yes, I've heard from some people that they have multiple Darwins and have bought boosters or permanent allocations. I already asked Darwinex myself, and they said there is no limit, but the question is whether it would be worth the risk to create so many Darwins and buy additional permanent allocations, only to end up having payouts denied / Darwin's deleted. As a manual trader, I wouldn't consider this option anyway, as there would be too many accounts to trade simultaneously. As an automated trader, I think it could make sense, provided...
Hi Noisy. You say you are manual trader and it will be a hassle for you to trade lots of accounts. You can use FXBlue trade copier (it is for free) and you trade on one metatrader and everything is replicated in dozens of metatrader in the same computer. May be you knew that - but I wanted to inform you.
  • #1,219
  • Oct 22, 2025 1:25pm Oct 22, 2025 1:25pm
Quoting Noisy
{quote} In my opinion, it would be even better with permanent allocations, as these supposedly last FOREVER and once you reach the breakeven point, you would of course earn far more than with 1 Darwin using the same strategy due to the higher capital. Here is an extreme example (don’t laugh) 100 Darwins with the same strategy and a 100k permanent allocation each One-time costs for permanent allocations: $199,500 (100*$1995) Running costs per year: $5,000 (100*$50) Total costs per year (one-time): $204,500 Percentage return needed to cover costs:...
Well if your darwin is at 100 HWM and you baught permanent allocation and your darwin goes to 95. If your darwin goes to 95. You baught booster. You will miss out 5% gain on booster. Imagine if your darwin goes to 90, You have option to buy buy one more booster and if you recover to 100. With booster you make lot of money while recovering.
  • #1,220
  • Oct 22, 2025 1:33pm Oct 22, 2025 1:33pm
Quoting TU2023
{quote} if I trade 1 asset, change the targets on a couple of trades, exclude a couple of trades from some accounts, does it work for not to be correlated?
Absolutely. 95 correlation is HARD to do if you just switch a couple of things here and there.
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