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darwin discussion

  • #1,041
  • Aug 7, 2025 10:55am Aug 7, 2025 10:55am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Started July 2024, got one payout from that, around $400, blew it up in December as the degen gambler came out in me. Started again January 2025, allocated since first month, 2 payouts totaling $1500 vs. $240 in sub fees, currently allocated 90K, not gold yet, no investors yet, but should be Gold and open to investors within 2 months. Fired up another one in May day trading futures, same deal allocated from month 1, firt payout will be September, around $600. Fired up a 3rd in June, not yet allocated. It's a big picture think....let's comapre...
I don't know if you should really compare it to a degree program, since at the end you have something tangible in your hands. Trading is a performance business, and if you don't perform, all that time has been useless. As a doctor, even if you don't perform, you should at least be somewhat financially secure.

Darwinex just seems to take far too long to get anything out of it that justifies the time, in my opinion. How long has this topic been here? Is anyone already earning at least minimum wage from his/her Darwin and doesn’t live in a 3rd world country?

Time if limited unless you found a way to never die. I don’t want to spend another 7-8 years to maybe/maybe not making minimum wage with Darwinex. I am in my 40s now. It just doesn’t make sense as long as you treat it as a side income/hobby thing.

I mean, just look at the DARWINS and how long it took them to reach seven figures, and even then, with a 15% profit split at 24% per year, you're not really better off than a higher-earning employee. It’s a joke in my eyes where only Darwinex is profiting from.

I don’t say the props are better but at least you don’t have to spend YEARS to even make a few thousands a month under reasonable risk.
  • #1,042
  • Aug 7, 2025 11:13am Aug 7, 2025 11:13am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} I don't know if you should really compare it to a degree program, since at the end you have something tangible in your hands. Trading is a performance business, and if you don't perform, all that time has been useless. As a doctor, even if you don't perform, you should at least be somewhat financially secure. Darwinex just seems to take far too long to get anything out of it that justifies the time, in my opinion. How long has this topic been here? Is anyone already earning at least minimum wage from his/her Darwin and doesn’t live in a...
I respect your opinion. It is not for everyone.
As I stated, it can not be your ONLY source of income initially. If it were to ever get to a point where I was in the red, I would discontinue. As of now, it's a few hundred bucks per month EXTRA for doing something I enjoy.
I will let it run it's course, get to gold on several Darwins and see what kind of AUM I can obtain. I cannot truly form an opinion until I get to the end game.
I traded with props since 2020 built substantuial funding accross 5 firms and it all virtually disappeared overnight. I feel had those 5 years been invested in Darwinex, I'd be in real good shape at this point.
  • #1,043
  • Edited 12:33pm Aug 7, 2025 12:03pm | Edited 12:33pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I respect your opinion. It is not for everyone. As I stated, it can not be your ONLY source of income initially. If it were to ever get to a point where I was in the red, I would discontinue. As of now, it's a few hundred bucks per month EXTRA for doing something I enjoy. I will let it run it's course, get to gold on several Darwins and see what kind of AUM I can obtain. I cannot truly form an opinion until I get to the end game. I traded with props since 2020 built substantuial funding accross 5 firms and it all virtually disappeared overnight....
Fair comment. I definitely hope everything works out with Darwinex as you imagine it will, and I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

I also think that it is more trustworthy than the props, but for my personal goals, I have the feeling that it could take a brutally long time to achieve them. I'm going to try it anyway, even if I'm unlikely to earn back the 38 euros a month anytime soon let alone making minimum wage with them.

Yesterday, I stumbled across an interview with a “Trader Kane” who allegedly received 1.8 million from Apex but was then banned. That shows how great this prop trading industry works. Well, at least if he really got the money paid out and he didn't need seven years to do so, he now has a good basis for his own account.

I recently tried an FTMO challenge and almost passed, but then exceeded the daily drawdown with one stupid trade trying to make a short cut. My plan/idea is that with the maximum capitalization without the scaling program (400k), an average return of 2-3% per month, and 80% profit sharing, I could at least make a living and it would justify the time.

400000*0,02*0,80=6.400

On the other hand, I'm also hearing more and more negative reports about FTMO, where successful traders have been banned after a few payouts or told to limit their trades to a maximum of 1% risk, even though this is not mentioned anywhere in the rules or contract. It's all kind of demotivating.

To make a living trading probably the best way is to be born as a multi millionaire….
  • #1,044
  • Aug 9, 2025 10:49pm Aug 9, 2025 10:49pm
Quoting codemaster75
His current total performance fee according to the hall of fame is $38,644.54 Euros, so if he makes a profit, this should be updated the next quarter and then we will have a better idea of what is going on.
Looks like Hall of Fame gets updated on everybody's payout day of the month. TradeSignalMachine's total performance fee got updated to 38,731.06 Euros. TradeSignalMachine's payout day from investor capital seems to be around about the 8th or 9th of the month.

At this current date, his monthly performance % for August is at 0.45%. So to get his next month Performance % (relative to investor capital payout day), we need to subtract this percent from the percent reading at the end of this month and add the additional monthly % reading on 8th/9th of September.
(Green Diamond) Pip Impact Member (top 1%)
  • #1,045
  • Edited 12:10pm Aug 12, 2025 11:51am | Edited 12:10pm
Just noticed that in the Hall of Fame, the default leaderboard is for the Total of all Performance fees of all Darwins created by each User/Trader. So TradeSignalMachine has a total of 19 Darwins (click on TradeSignalMachine) and the total of all his Performance Fees for all his Darwins is 38,731.06 Euros (at the time of this post).

In the Hall of Fame, where it says "Users.....DARWINs", if you click on DARWINS, this gives you the leaderboard of Total Performance fees for each individual Darwin. At the time of this post, TradeSignalMachine is currently position 54 with Darwin "TRO" and his Total Performance fees for this Darwin is 20,013.52 Euros.

So what this is saying, is that in his 8 year trading history, TradeSignalMachine has only made 20k Euros with his best Darwin!

Is that right? So all his other 18 Darwins make up the rest of the other 18.7k Euros right?

Hardly worth trying to do any other calculations now. I hope he did better on all his 19 personal trading accounts. Unbelievable.
(Green Diamond) Pip Impact Member (top 1%)
  • #1,046
  • Aug 13, 2025 10:29am Aug 13, 2025 10:29am
Quoting codemaster75
Just noticed that in the Hall of Fame, the default leaderboard is for the Total of all Performance fees of all Darwins created by each User/Trader. So TradeSignalMachine has a total of 19 Darwins (click on TradeSignalMachine) and the total of all his Performance Fees for all his Darwins is 38,731.06 Euros (at the time of this post). In the Hall of Fame, where it says "Users.....DARWINs", if you click on DARWINS, this gives you the leaderboard of Total Performance fees for each individual Darwin. At the time of this post, TradeSignalMachine is currently...
Total waste of time. Probably a buy and hold investment in the S&P 500 for the same duration performed better.
  • #1,047
  • Edited 8:47pm Aug 24, 2025 8:34pm | Edited 8:47pm
Quoting Noisy
{quote}... It's all kind of demotivating. To make a living trading probably the best way is to be born as a multi millionaire….
Frustration is understandable. Keep in mind that according to some estimates around 90% of small businesses fail. I have experienced that ratio but am still self-employed due to the favorable risk/reward ratio. Your comments on Darwin are pretty thought-provoking...
"Wisdom is proved righteous by its works"
  • #1,048
  • Aug 30, 2025 9:27am Aug 30, 2025 9:27am
I stumbled across this video yesterday.

Inserted Video


The guy seems very intelligent, so I looked up his DARWIN, but the results don't look that great. Intelligence does not necessarily seem to lead to great trading results.

https://www.darwinex.com/invest/KLV

37.06% Return since inception
5.90% Annualized Return
5.5 years Track Record
-22.16% Maximum Drawdown
25.82% Best Month
-6.20% Worst Month

A total of 3 negative years since its inception and the current year also negative so far.
  • #1,049
  • Aug 30, 2025 9:35am Aug 30, 2025 9:35am
Quoting Satreveritas
{quote} Frustration is understandable. Keep in mind that according to some estimates around 90% of small businesses fail. I have experienced that ratio but am still self-employed due to the favorable risk/reward ratio. Your comments on Darwin are pretty thought-provoking...
Yes, the success rates aren't any better in many fields, but depending on your business model as a freelancer or startup, it's still probably more likely to earn consistent money this way than with trading. Financial risk isn't really an issue in my field of self-employment, but for various reasons, I'd like to replace that with trading.
  • #1,050
  • Aug 30, 2025 10:29am Aug 30, 2025 10:29am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Yes, the success rates aren't any better in many fields, but depending on your business model as a freelancer or startup, it's still probably more likely to earn consistent money this way than with trading. Financial risk isn't really an issue in my field of self-employment, but for various reasons, I'd like to replace that with trading.
The reason trading is so hard.....if you are among the 8-10% who are successfull, it gives you both TIME freedom and more FINANCIAL freedom than a professional (doctor, lawyer, etc)
You must keep in mind, in genereal, you either dislike your job but get paid well, or love your job and get paid like shit. Only about 5% of folks are doing what they truly enjoy and making good money.
Anything that offers both is going to be balls to the walls difficult.
One you wrap your head around this, your path should become much clearer.
  • #1,051
  • Aug 31, 2025 12:29am Aug 31, 2025 12:29am
Quoting Noisy
I stumbled across this video yesterday. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIGxZmHBRsc The guy seems very intelligent, so I looked up his DARWIN, but the results don't look that great. Intelligence does not necessarily seem to lead to great trading results. https://www.darwinex.com/invest/KLV 37.06% Return since inception 5.90% Annualized Return 5.5 years Track Record -22.16% Maximum Drawdown 25.82% Best Month -6.20% Worst Month A total of 3 negative years since its inception and the current year also negative so far.
I don't get the point of watching this guy's video.

He made 45% in the first 5 months with massive drawdown and has lost 12% over the last FIVE years. Why would I watch a guy who hasn't made a penny for 5 years?
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #1,052
  • Aug 31, 2025 3:57am Aug 31, 2025 3:57am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} I don't get the point of watching this guy's video. He made 45% in the first 5 months with massive drawdown and has lost 12% over the last FIVE years. Why would I watch a guy who hasn't made a penny for 5 years?
Yes, right. That surprises me, too.
  • #1,053
  • Aug 31, 2025 5:42am Aug 31, 2025 5:42am
This is so sad. After a year of waiting, your 5K is $4,390.24.
I think Darwinex wants to give him a boost after 5.5 years of him paying subs. He paid 2500 or so to get $1799 AUM.
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  • #1,054
  • Sep 2, 2025 1:53pm Sep 2, 2025 1:53pm
Quoting OutThere
This is so sad. After a year of waiting, your 5K is $4,390.24. I think Darwinex wants to give him a boost after 5.5 years of him paying subs. He paid 2500 or so to get $1799 AUM. {image}
Yes. I am currently at a risk multiplier of 0.5 for my DARWIN. Means to make a 1% profit in my DARWIN I actually need to make a 2% profit with the signal account. Doesn’t sound like a good deal.
  • #1,055
  • Sep 2, 2025 5:08pm Sep 2, 2025 5:08pm
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Yes. I am currently at a risk multiplier of 0.5 for my DARWIN. Means to make a 1% profit in my DARWIN I actually need to make a 2% profit with the signal account. Doesn’t sound like a good deal.
Yup. Tell me about it. One of my accounts has a multiplier of .08. It means to make 1%, I have to make 12%+.
It is just paying monthly subs hoping to rise up. A true waste of money.
  • #1,056
  • Sep 2, 2025 5:53pm Sep 2, 2025 5:53pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Yup. Tell me about it. One of my accounts has a multiplier of .08. It means to make 1%, I have to make 12%+. It is just paying monthly subs hoping to rise up. A true waste of money.
The gist of the darwin account is VAR and constant lot size. There are two options either reset or trade 0.1 or 0.01 lot for 45 days to reset. It will reset incrementally not for atleast first 2-3 weeks. How many lots are you trading?
  • #1,057
  • Sep 2, 2025 6:08pm Sep 2, 2025 6:08pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} The gist of the darwin account is VAR and constant lot size. There are two options either reset or trade 0.1 or 0.01 lot for 45 days to reset. It will reset incrementally not for atleast first 2-3 weeks. How many lots are you trading?
Mostly .01 but it is a grid/dca and adds up. I am fully aware that Darwinex doesn't like such strategies and yes I will reset it shortly.
  • #1,058
  • Sep 3, 2025 4:44am Sep 3, 2025 4:44am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Yup. Tell me about it. One of my accounts has a multiplier of .08. It means to make 1%, I have to make 12%+. It is just paying monthly subs hoping to rise up. A true waste of money.
So, I spoke to Darwinex again directly and now I understand a few things better.

It is as I assumed: Changes to the position sizing in my signal account with a current risk multiplier of 0.5 will not affect the profitability of my DARWIN. It is a self-balancing mechanism. This means that even if I were to halve my position size (lower my signal account's VaR), I would still not achieve the same profitability in the DARWIN (i.e., 1% profit in the signal account = 1% profit in the DARWIN). So I would halve my drawdown but not double my profitability for the DARWIN.

I was given this example:

Scenario 1:
0.5x risk multiplier
5 lots on signal account = £1,000 profit
2.5 lots on DARWIN = £500 profit

Scenario 2:
1x risk multiplier
2.5 lots on signal account (as you've lowered size) = £500 profit
2.5 lots on DARWIN = £500 profit

This means that the only adjustment you can apparently make to achieve the same/better profitability with your DARWIN compared to your signal account is to increase your average risk/reward ratio with your signal account.

However, this is difficult and not possible for everyone. For example, I currently have what I consider to be a good risk/reward ratio of 1:2 on average. This would mean that I would now have to adjust my strategy (or rather my system, as it is automated) so that I would achieve a ratio of 1:4, meaning that a 1% profit in my signal account would also mean a 1% profit in my DARWIN.

Now I'm actually paying 38,00 EUR a month to essentially earn a 1% profit with my DARWIN, even if my signal account would earn 2% at the end of the month. This means it takes me twice as long and I pay twice as much in subscription fees to achieve the same profitability with my DARWIN as with my signal account or another DARWIN that might have a higher average risk/reward ratio than mine.
  • #1,059
  • Sep 3, 2025 5:02am Sep 3, 2025 5:02am
The only good news I heard today about Darwinex is that once you reach Gold status, your DARWIN supposedly remains open to investors forever from that point on. I had assumed that if, for example, you reached Gold after 8 months and then slipped back to Silver in the 9th month because you no longer achieved the profitability required for Gold, you would be blocked from investors again. But thankfully, that is not the case.

On the other hand, I wonder how long I will have to pay 38 euros a month to ever reach Gold status and be open to investors, and how quickly you can actually achieve SIGNIFICANT investor AuM. I still believe that this will take far too long and that the costs and time required to obtain, say, 10 million in investor AuM (and then to be able to at least maintain this capital for the future) are in no way justified.

I think some people are kidding themselves here, and based on the hard numbers, the fact that many DARWINS (even the most sophisticated/brightest people and strategies—see the KVL DARWIN example I've given) can't even show 1 million in investor capital after 5+ years shows how difficult/unrealistic it seems to actually achieve this with Darwinex.

In 5 years, you would probably be in a much better position financially with a prop trading company (assuming you are consistently profitable and they paid you regularly and don't kicked you out). Or even with your own small funded personal account.
  • #1,060
  • Sep 3, 2025 5:04am Sep 3, 2025 5:04am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} So, I spoke to Darwinex again directly and now I understand a few things better. It is as I assumed: Changes to the position sizing in my signal account with a current risk multiplier of 0.5 will not affect the profitability of my DARWIN. It is a self-balancing mechanism. This means that even if I were to halve my position size (lower my signal account's VaR), I would still not achieve the same profitability in the DARWIN (i.e., 1% profit in the signal account = 1% profit in the DARWIN). So I would halve my drawdown but not double my profitability...
Juan says that trading is hard as it is, we are not going to make it harder.
Rephrasing of course but that is exactly what they are doing.
It is very difficult to rewrite or adjust one's trading to fit the calculations of Darwinex especially if the strategy is automated.
Now think conforming to their formula if you trade .01's that are part of a grid like strategy.
Ya, actually of all the people who have posted their findings about Darwinex, you make the most sense.
Many good traders get a taste of Darwinex and move on as it is certainly not for everyone.
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