If 95% of traders fail..... | Forex Factory

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If 95% of traders fail.....

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited 12:23pm Aug 7, 2007 12:03pm | Edited 12:23pm
If 95% of traders bankrupt their account in a year, why are brokers doing the following:

Why do they stop hunt?
Why do they offer slow execution?
Why is the spread high and the rollover high?

Won't the trader simply self destruct without the extemperaneous forces it seems ALL BROKERS SUBJECT US TO. It's hard enough to make profit without their manipulation.
  • #2
  • Aug 7, 2007 12:11pm Aug 7, 2007 12:11pm
Quoting tdion
If 95% of traders bankrupt their account in a year, why are brokers doing the following:

Why do they stop hunt?
Why do they offer slow execution?
Why is the spread high and the rollover high?



If they had half a brain in their head, they'd give good service and keep clients happy instead of cheating them out of a few hundred dollars and leaving them furious. Take the other side of the trade.... I don't care..... and if I lose and you win, so be it.

Won't the trader simply self destruct without the extemperaneous forces it seems ALL BROKERS SUBJECT US TO. Honestly, it's US vs. THEM and I am sick of it. It's hard enough to make profit without their manipulation.

Forexbastard's "broker" section is overflowing w/ complaints.

Hey Merlin I know you love these bitch and moan sessions. But hey, I'm not complaining about news trading. I'm talking about screwing w/ people because they are good traders.
I think melrin would be the first to agree that brokers are not looking out for the interests of traders, I think he is just tired of people not taking responsiblilty for their own actions and getting educated about different types of orders. I can say with certainty and with first hand knowledge, that when a situation of a broker having been dishonest, merlin has worked behind the scenes to either help resolve it or get rid of the broker.

First and formost, merlin, in my opinion is about and for traders.

They do all of the above things, because they are in it for the money first and formost. Take the Market Maker out of the equation and the situation changes drastically.
  • #3
  • Aug 7, 2007 12:15pm Aug 7, 2007 12:15pm
Well Scott, my point was that they would make plenty of money without their manipulation. In fact, good service would entice more $$$ out of the pockets of traders, because they wouldn't feel cheated.
  • #4
  • Aug 7, 2007 12:27pm Aug 7, 2007 12:27pm
Quoting tdion
Forexbastard's "broker" section is overflowing w/ complaints.
IMHO Forexbastards is definitively the worst place when it comes to FX broker's reviews...
"I say high, You say low, You say why, and I say I don't know..."
  • #5
  • Aug 7, 2007 12:55pm Aug 7, 2007 12:55pm
Quoting Ricardo.
IMHO Forexbastards is definitively the worst place when it comes to FX broker's reviews...

Agreed. A few people can skew the entire reputation of a broker. Plus, there is no way to verify the validity of one's claim.
  • #6
  • Aug 7, 2007 1:45pm Aug 7, 2007 1:45pm
You're asking a fundamental question about the human race here. Why doesn't Detroit build cars as well as the Japanese? Why do so many people do their jobs half-assed? Why do some people lie when it's really not necessary? Why do some brokers manipulate when it's really not necessary? It's just human nature that some are average, some are great, and some suck. I read a quote by George Carlin today;

Think of how dumb the average person is and then think about how half the human race is dumber than them.

That pretty much sums up the brokers.
  • #7
  • Aug 7, 2007 1:48pm Aug 7, 2007 1:48pm
Quoting Dopey

Think of how dumb the average person is and then think about how half the human race is dumber than them.

That pretty much sums up the brokers.
haha love it
  • #8
  • Aug 7, 2007 3:22pm Aug 7, 2007 3:22pm

I'd say this.. If you are trading with a Dealing Desk firm you are asking to be traded against and gotta ask yourself why are you trading under such a model. Those firms always delay your orders or give you dealer confirmation because they are waiting for a better price. But firms offering ECN execution or No Dealing Desk opportunities are not stop hunting you (they may be shading you but that's entirely different story). Normally they are only making money based on the volume you put through so if you continue to lose and trade less they make less money in the long run. If you think you are getting screwed on an NDD platform then most likely its the banks themselves that are the ones doing it and that's part of the game. If you have ever watched the London open you would know this as the major banks love to swing the market in one direction and then the next after the check their books and exposure in the market. I'm not going to blame this also completely on the banks as half the time people just put their stops in obvious places or just don't have proper strategies to help them pick better places to put their stops.

  • #9
  • Aug 8, 2007 6:47am Aug 8, 2007 6:47am
Quoting tdion
If 95% of traders bankrupt their account in a year, why are brokers doing the following:
Why do they stop hunt?
Why do they offer slow execution?
Why is the spread high and the rollover high?
Won't the trader simply self destruct without the extemperaneous forces it seems ALL BROKERS SUBJECT US TO. It's hard enough to make profit without their manipulation.
Let's use an analogy here: If 100 people tried to swim 10 miles in a sea infested with sharks to get safely on land, I put it to you that 95 per cent will fail the journey (eaten by sharks) and that only 5 per cent will make it to the destination. That's not to say that the 95 who perish are bad swimmers although a percentage may be. It is that by jumping into the sea thay find themselves in the middle of a crowd who want to feed on them.

You can apply this to the forex market.
  • #10
  • Aug 8, 2007 7:55am Aug 8, 2007 7:55am
Boy, I'd love to organize a group of traders with deep pockets and a strategy that sets up Brokers who trade against their clients....

Too bad I got busted in the third grade for organizing a lunch strike. I'm sure their still watching me now.

Wow, we could call it the Free Lunch Brigade! No more free lunch, you forex bass turds.
  • #11
  • Aug 8, 2007 8:43am Aug 8, 2007 8:43am
Quoting Micro-MiniMe

Too bad I got busted in the third grade for organizing a lunch strike. I'm sure their still watching me now.
Rofl...just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
  • #12
  • Aug 8, 2007 10:31am Aug 8, 2007 10:31am
Quoting tdion
If 95% of traders bankrupt their account in a year, why are brokers doing the following:

Why do they stop hunt?
Why do they offer slow execution?
Why is the spread high and the rollover high?

Won't the trader simply self destruct without the extemperaneous forces it seems ALL BROKERS SUBJECT US TO. It's hard enough to make profit without their manipulation.
They are helping you fasten up the process! The sooner you lose, the sooner you realize your mistakes and the sooner you start winning!
  • #13
  • Aug 8, 2007 10:39am Aug 8, 2007 10:39am
Quoting Dopey
Rofl...just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
Yes, too bad I'm not more of a conformist. I could still have a job in a safe little cubical where I wouldn't have to make so many decisions for myself.

Unfortunately, that lunch stike is still on my school record and I'm labeled as some kind of anti-social, non-conforming, rebelious phycopath with a tendency toward anarchistic behavior.

The guy who blew me in graduated the third grade with top honors, but now he's recovering from a tripple bypass from all the crap he eats. he he he
  • #14
  • Aug 8, 2007 10:44am Aug 8, 2007 10:44am
Quoting Micro-MiniMe
Yes, too bad I'm not more of a conformist. I could still have a job in a safe little cubical where I wouldn't have to make so many decisions for myself.

Unfortunately, that lunch stike is still on my school record and I'm labeled as some kind of anti-social, non-conforming, rebelious phycopath with a tendency toward anarchistic behavior.

The guy who blew me in graduated the third grade with top honors, but now he's recovering from a tripple bypass from all the crap he eats. he he he
The permanent record will get you everytime!
  • #15
  • Aug 8, 2007 11:13am Aug 8, 2007 11:13am
Quoting tdion
If 95% of traders bankrupt their account in a year, why are brokers doing the following:

Why do they stop hunt?
Why do they offer slow execution?
Why is the spread high and the rollover high?

Won't the trader simply self destruct without the extemperaneous forces it seems ALL BROKERS SUBJECT US TO. It's hard enough to make profit without their manipulation.
If you were a greedy Broker, would you prefer to have customer money going to your pocket of customer money going to the market pocket ?

There should suffice to respond to your question
  • #16
  • Aug 8, 2007 11:23am Aug 8, 2007 11:23am
Quoting melpheos
If you were a greedy Broker???
Is there any other kind?
Maybe the question should be:
Why do so many brokers get rich?
  • #17
  • Aug 8, 2007 11:46am Aug 8, 2007 11:46am
Quoting Micro-MiniMe
Is there any other kind?
Maybe the question should be:
Why do so many brokers get rich?
How about this question: If brokering is such a sure-thing for making profits, then why are so many FX dealers going under?
  • #18
  • Aug 8, 2007 12:43pm Aug 8, 2007 12:43pm
Quoting FXEZ
How about this question: If brokering is such a sure-thing for making profits, then why are so many FX dealers going under?
Interesting. How many are going under? I've heard of a few, but there are hundreds out there, many of who just started up within the last year or two. The market seams to be saturated with new brokers tying to get into the game. Why is this?
  • #19
  • Aug 8, 2007 1:18pm Aug 8, 2007 1:18pm
Quoting PipStar
Let's use an analogy here: If 100 people tried to swim 10 miles in a sea infested with sharks to get safely on land, I put it to you that 95 per cent will fail the journey (eaten by sharks) and that only 5 per cent will make it to the destination. That's not to say that the 95 who perish are bad swimmers although a percentage may be. It is that by jumping into the sea thay find themselves in the middle of a crowd who want to feed on them.

You can apply this to the forex market.
i'll make out of this another analogy: if 100 people tried ti swim 10 miles acros a sea, with no turning back, only those who trained will make it on the other cost.

Leaving this behind, i think the big problem is in the "head" of the trader, not the broker.

Ps. i saw here, on ff, a weekly statistic of positions on eur/usd from a retail broker. 90% of traders were long and that week eur/usd went down, all week long. so, is this the broker's fault?
"Abandon all hope, you who enter here" La Divina Commedia, Dante Alighieri
  • #20
  • Aug 8, 2007 2:43pm Aug 8, 2007 2:43pm
Quoting semar
Ps. i saw here, on ff, a weekly statistic of positions on eur/usd from a retail broker. 90% of traders were long and that week eur/usd went down, all week long. so, is this the broker's fault?
Most likely.
It's difficult as a trader to know when and where the next sheep slaughter will happen. I can easily remember two times when my last two live account retail FX brokers laid out detailed trade setups that had a 'very high probability of large gains'. Of coarse they recomended large stops to prevent the positions from being taken out by whipsaws. After the market had run stops for a couple hundered pips, the brokers always had an excuse like 'profit taking triggered a pile of stops' or my favorite, the infamous "Homeland Investment Act" which always seamed to rear its ugly head just after bad US economic data and caused the market to move in favor of the Dollar. Funny how the HIA was virtually unheard of until it had taken out several hundred pips worth of stops.

FX is the worlds toughest market and I don't blame the brokers for being greedy. I just want people to be aware of the many pitfalls that exist in this market and encourage them to expect the unexpected before they jump in it. And for Gods sake, if you feel like you might be part of a large herd that's moving in one direction, watch your tail!
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