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darwin discussion

  • #921
  • May 20, 2025 8:05am May 20, 2025 8:05am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} All you have to do to be successful at Darwinex is to constantly beat yourself at making money. You have to continually outdo yourself. You have to meet and beat your ATH to get ahead. Tell me how you can get ahead with an ATH that is going backwards or lagging? By controlling risk? By being right? Fine but whatever you do, impress yourself at becoming better than yourself every day.
I agree. But wouldn't that be true with a perosnal account/prop account or any other account........if your all time high is going backwards....you're not making $$$$.
Darwinex takes some work, for sure, but I interact with folks daily that have perfected maximizing the risk engine. Just saw a guy today with 0.34% return on his MT5, yet his Darwin is up 13.96%....risk multiplier is like 30+
I'm all-in on Darwinex, clearly it fits my trading style....just calibrated my 2nd, firing up a 3rd next week......goal is 10 by end of year.
Here is Darwin #1.....after 2 payouts and 2 weeks shy of gold before blowing up my actual first one last year
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  • #922
  • May 20, 2025 1:09pm May 20, 2025 1:09pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I agree. But wouldn't that be true with a perosnal account/prop account or any other account........if your all time high is going backwards....you're not making $$$$. Darwinex takes some work, for sure, but I interact with folks daily that have perfected maximizing the risk engine. Just saw a guy today with 0.34% return on his MT5, yet his Darwin is up 13.96%....risk multiplier is like 30+ I'm all-in on Darwinex, clearly it fits my trading style....just calibrated my 2nd, firing up a 3rd next week......goal is 10 by end of year. Here is...
Have you bought instant allocation for that account?
  • #923
  • May 20, 2025 4:36pm May 20, 2025 4:36pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I agree. But wouldn't that be true with a perosnal account/prop account or any other account........if your all time high is going backwards....you're not making $$$$. Darwinex takes some work, for sure, but I interact with folks daily that have perfected maximizing the risk engine. Just saw a guy today with 0.34% return on his MT5, yet his Darwin is up 13.96%....risk multiplier is like 30+ I'm all-in on Darwinex, clearly it fits my trading style....just calibrated my 2nd, firing up a 3rd next week......goal is 10 by end of year. Here is...
I am the reverse of that guy.
In the underlying, my max dd has been less than 5% and below par only for maybe 3 days. At almost 16% gain in 3 months۔ If I had done this with a prop, I'd be getting my 100k account and assuming the same earnings in 3 more months, I'd be earning 13.5K.
instead, at Darwinex, I am at 3.82, ranking around 63 and I am supposed to conform to a risk engine which is giving me a .34 multipler. That means it is omitting a whole lot of my .01 and .02 trades. Then I'm supposed to trade another 5 months to qualify for gold which means nothing since no one will invest in a new gold account bla bla. Darwinex is really boring. I already signed up for Axiselect too. Darwinex comes at a distant 3rd after props and Axi. I'm only doing Darwinex because I like pain and I like being kept down.
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  • #924
  • May 20, 2025 4:56pm May 20, 2025 4:56pm
Quoting OutThere
I am supposed to conform to a risk engine
Too arrogant and stupid to do that. Following rules not your thing, huh? Typical leftist
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #925
  • May 20, 2025 5:11pm May 20, 2025 5:11pm
2 days of light trading at Axi select, I already passed the needed edge score for the level. At least someone recognizes and appreciates my trading.
My Axi is gonna make circles around Darwinex. No subscription fees either and it trades 1:1 instead of cutting or omitting my trades to come up with some fake trading record which isn't mine any more.

I only need to follow my rules which is better than good enough for Axi and that is all that matters.
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  • #926
  • May 20, 2025 5:38pm May 20, 2025 5:38pm
Quoting OutThere
2 days of light trading at Axi select, I already passed the needed edge score for the level. At least someone recognizes and appreciates my trading. My Axi is gonna make circles around Darwinex. No subscription fees either and it trades 1:1 instead of cutting or omitting my trades to come up with some fake trading record which isn't mine any more. I only need to follow my rules which is better than good enough for Axi and that is all that matters. {image}
Yes, Axi Select is easier to navigate and get funded, no nonsensical risk engine.
  • #927
  • May 21, 2025 7:21am May 21, 2025 7:21am
Quoting sheva89
{quote} Have you bought instant allocation for that account?
Not as of yet. My plan (as of now) is once I have 5 through calibration, depending on correlation, I may add to all at once and copy trade. Since the permanent allocations are NOT IMPACTED by correlation and/or investor allocations, if they are correlated I will copy, If I can avoid correlation by staggering instruments, sizes, entries, I will trade all individually.
If I can avoid correlation and just hit minimum seed on each, adding the permanent makes them 190K each, 10 gives me 2 million with no rules whatsoever, at 15%, it is equivalent to my own 300K account......no DD, no consistency, no news rules, no DCA rules, etc, etc, etc
  • #928
  • May 23, 2025 3:15pm May 23, 2025 3:15pm
Quoting OutThere
2 days of light trading at Axi select,
Hi #OutThere,

DZ (Darwinex Zero) has often driven me to despair, too. It took me a while (and a few accounts) to understand DZ and the risk engine. I trade manually, not with EAs. Okay, I think EA traders might see things differently.

I also tried connecting AS (Axi Select) with DZ via a trade copier. But then I realized that I have to trade the accounts differently. AS is profit maximization, DZ is ultimately the opposite >>> satisfying the risk engine (VaR). The normal DarwinIA allocations with a 15% profit share aren't that generous. The permanent allocation is a support, and the future lies in getting investor capital. It's a long way.

I think both systems have their merits, but you have to trade them differently. With AS, for example, I would always increase positions or scale in for reversals. With DZ I wouldn't do that and would always trade only one position with a stoploss. This is my way of trading as a scalper, trading reversals (where I sometimes have to scale in), and currency momentum in the direction of the trend. Well, everyone has to check for themselves what suits them.

I'm currently back with DZ with a new account, and I trade this time with very small position sizes. I'm curious to see what profit and DD DarwinIA will show me after the calibration phase. The risk engine is a dear slut, let's see if she loves me.

I looked at my AXI account today, and AS has increased the profit target in each phase from 5% to 7%. What's the point of that? It just takes even longer to get from one phase to the next. Such a crap.

Best regards, Chris
  • #929
  • Edited 10:53pm May 23, 2025 4:45pm | Edited 10:53pm
Quoting Chris.GER
{quote} Hi #OutThere, DZ (Darwinex Zero) has often driven me to despair, too. It took me a while (and a few accounts) to understand DZ and the risk engine. I trade manually, not with EAs. Okay, I think EA traders might see things differently. I also tried connecting AS (Axi Select) with DZ via a trade copier. But then I realized that I have to trade the accounts differently. AS is profit maximization, DZ is ultimately the opposite >>> satisfying the risk engine (VaR). The normal DarwinIA allocations with a 15% profit share aren't that generous....
Thanks for the comparison. There seems to be very few traders who trade with both AS and DZ since AS is off limits to Americans. I tried AS when it's new revamped version came out a few years ago but didn't like it. It is more robust now and the score seems to be more generous.
After trading DZ and seeing how stingy and degrading it is towards my trading, it's a breath of fresh air to trade AS. I have said it before and angered the cult like lovers of DZ that trading with DZ is like walking in knee deep mud. AS is like gliding on water. The 1:1 straight through treatment of my trades at AS beats DZ any time. It's a no brainier. No 5% maximum daily dd at AS and no 10% maximum unrealized floating dd either. I can have 75% unrealized dd at AS and still br a contender. That part beats any props.
At DZ, a dd of only a few percents leads to Exposure Closed and that leads to a risk ratio multiplier cut. That cut for that one infraction stays as such until another Exposure Closed and more multiplier cut. I don't buy the claims that it's on a 45 day MA and will improve. I have had accounts such as the one posted earlier still at cut rate after 60+ days of a downgrade staying the same with no improvement in sight. Compare that to the immediate, live and very forgiving edge score of AS.
Anyways, I can go on and on but I find myself fortunate to have access to AS and I don't mind the profit target increases since they provide so much encouragement and avid recognition for the traders through their program's structure.
I'm not leaving DZ since I want to survive and conquer a very harsh and formidable set of trading conditions provided by DZ. I take it as a challenge. My plan is to make my money with AS and use it to support the operating costs and full expansion of my accounts at DZ. All in all, I'm having fun with both.

--------------------------------------
PS: Not so rosy as I said in AS. There is a 10% equity stop in place, so it will never get to 75% dd floating loss. If that happens, you just start the level over again.


.
In my underlying account there is no 10% equity stop in place tho
So it works out to 50 bucks a try.
Works like a stop loss for strategy...not a SL on a single entry.
Now this makes it a strategy wide SL.
At the same time with it, you can command a higher pay from the pay source which is Axi.
Wow
It is so simplified. As long as you can withstand s 10% drop in equity, and make a few good trades meanwhile, you can advance.
no other rule or anything like a risk engine will be in the way.
Right or am I missing something
  • #930
  • May 24, 2025 2:04am May 24, 2025 2:04am
With Axi Select I was just about to enter the Acceleration phase in December. From then on it would also be financially fun, 50% profit share. And then came FOMC Wednesday, and I got a beating in EURUSD, went in the wrong direction, and the 10% DD was reached. Well, that was my own stupidity.

The account isn't lost, you will be quarantined, which means you are not allowed to trade the AS account for 14 days, you get downgraded to the Seed phase, where you don't earn any money for the time being, the Edge Score drops, and the DD also has to be balanced again. The account doesn't start from zero again.

So, I took a break from AS for now, and I decided to use DZ. But it took a while for me to understand DZ. Both AS and DZ can work. If DZ starts successfully for me, AS is certainly another alternative.
  • #931
  • Edited 3:04am May 24, 2025 2:51am | Edited 3:04am
Quoting Chris.GER
With Axi Select I was just about to enter the Acceleration phase in December. From then on it would also be financially fun, 50% profit share. And then came FOMC Wednesday, and I got a beating in EURUSD, went in the wrong direction, and the 10% DD was reached. Well, that was my own stupidity. The account isn't lost, you will be quarantined, which means you are not allowed to trade the AS account for 14 days, you get downgraded to the Seed phase, where you don't earn any money for the time being, the Edge Score drops, and the DD also has to be balanced...
Sounds great. Thanks for your input.
Interesting to see how these two unique programs compare with each other.
  • #932
  • Edited 8:36am May 24, 2025 8:12am | Edited 8:36am
The main thing folks do not understand about DZ is your signal account is irrlevant as far as risk taken on size/leverage.
DZ adjusts it for you, which, personally, I think is wonderful as it is one less thing to worry about.
Find your setups, set your targets and trade.
I posted this a few days back, but worth a read again.......

 

  1. The only way to see and understand the "professional" way of managing money is through understanding risk which is measure by the BETA. No one here is reward for adding market risk to get higher return. It has to come from you ALPHA i.e the return you provide in EXCESS of the risk you take. You cannot improve your Darwinex by changing your risk as the risk engine will always adjust it up or down. The beginner retail/prop mindset is just to maximize return regardless of risk taken (leverage) The typical x% risk of capital based on stop loss is completely irrelevant. If I buy 10% position in ABC asset of a $100K account and make 20% I make 2% on the account You take the same trade with 20% make a raw return of 40% but you are no better than me. You added risk (beta) but not more alpha even if you earned 4% On a risk adjusted basis we're the same This is a very simplified version of it but carried over time our darwinex return would be the same. My multiplier would be higher than yours and we'd end up with the same returns If we traded the exact same way and at the same time. Playing with size to adjust return is pointless On the other hand if I buy XYZ and you by ABC same $ value same beta and you make more than me then you have provided alpha. Your higher return comes from your expertise or we both take the same entry on the same asset you capture 80% of the move I capture 60%...that's Alpha you generated more alpha than me hen your return will be better because ti wasnt based on adding more risk (edited)


another nugget.....

the best way to deal with Var is to not deal with Var. The best thing you can do is make it stable whether it is .30 or 3.0 is irrelevant. What matters it its stability, staying in the same reasonable range. ANd the best way of doing is to not think about it and trading consistently the same way. Same lot size same amount of time in the market. The longer you are in the market and and the bigger the size the lower your Var will be. So the more you play around to fudge it the worse it is because what it likes is stability. Not in performance but in the way you trade It's a relationship between you and the capital. Tyhe more stable you are the better your partner will know

  • #933
  • May 24, 2025 6:15pm May 24, 2025 6:15pm
Value At Risk (VaR) Explained | How to apply to day-trading and swing trading
  • #934
  • May 25, 2025 3:14pm May 25, 2025 3:14pm
Quoting pipmaster77
The main thing folks do not understand about DZ is your signal account is irrlevant as far as risk taken on size/leverage. DZ adjusts it for you, which, personally, I think is wonderful as it is one less thing to worry about. Find your setups, set your targets and trade. I posted this a few days back, but worth a read again....... The only way to see and understand the "professional" way of managing money is through understanding risk which is measure by the BETA. No one here is reward for adding market risk to get higher return. It has to come...
You're sounding so confident right now because you are constantly hitting the ATH in your account. I'm sure you are doing that as well in your underlying account that you claim is somehow irrelevant to how RE works. You are basically hitting perfection now and that is how Darwinex works.
If your underlying account were real, after doing so well, you'd own all that profit but in DZ, you are only as good as the amount by which you have beaten your own previous ATH. To stay successful and collect your 15%, you will have to make sure you top yourself day in, day out or you don't get any cut.
That's what I meant before when I said you have to constantly produce fresh new money much the same as a money printing machine and yes obviously, if you are doing that, you are managing risk big time and again obviously, you have satisfied the risk engine.
So, OK, got it. You gotta be perfect All the time and then no worries about the risk engine.
  • #935
  • May 25, 2025 3:29pm May 25, 2025 3:29pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Value At Risk (VaR) Explained | How to apply to day-trading and swing trading
Why is that Darwinex uses Warren Buffet 20%/year earnings as a standard to keep up with?
His 20% never went through DZ's risk engine. Correct?
It means 20% is his underlying account.

What is Warren Buffett's annual return?
Berkshire's monster figure equates to a compounded annual return of 19.9%. That is nearly double the 10.4% recorded by the S&P 500.May 5, 2025

Based on the above, if he was a Darwin, he would have been cut by the RE many times over. His 20% would have been maybe a 2% or negative.

What am I missing here?
  • #936
  • May 25, 2025 5:58pm May 25, 2025 5:58pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} You're sounding so confident right now because you are constantly hitting the ATH in your account. I'm sure you are doing that as well in your underlying account that you claim is somehow irrelevant to how RE works. You are basically hitting perfection now and that is how Darwinex works. If your underlying account were real, after doing so well, you'd own all that profit but in DZ, you are only as good as the amount by which you have beaten your own previous ATH. To stay successful and collect your 15%, you will have to make sure you top...
I cannot wrap my head around your point...Let's say I have a personal account of 100K, I make 10K and pull the 10K out, I'm back at a 100K balance. Now I lose 5K....there is no profit to withdrawal until I am back over 100K again. No matter who/where/what you are trading, in order to make money, you're always needing to hit ATH.
My point regarding the risk engine and it's relationship to the signal account is the fact all it is looking for is consistency. If it's consistent, the risk engine doesn't move much at all. I have one darwin cutting me at 0.54, the other is multiplying me at 1.74.....they both make money.
If you're being cut, it is also minimizing the DD and of course, if being multiplied, it multiplies the DD.
The post I made earlier from someone who is an absolute master on how the risk engine works, cannot make it any clearer how it works.
  • #937
  • May 25, 2025 6:25pm May 25, 2025 6:25pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I cannot wrap my head around your point...Let's say I have a personal account of 100K, I make 10K and pull the 10K out, I'm back at a 100K balance. Now I lose 5K....there is no profit to withdrawal until I am back over 100K again. No matter who/where/what you are trading, in order to make money, you're always needing to hit ATH. My point regarding the risk engine and it's relationship to the signal account is the fact all it is looking for is consistency. If it's consistent, the risk engine doesn't move much at all. I have one darwin cutting...
you can't wrap your hrad around it cause you introduced the withdrawal to the equation. My example didn't include withdrawal.

So, what is wrong with someone trading . .01, .02,.03, .04,.05 sizes in that order wherein one time only .01 gets traded and another time.01,.02,.03 get traded and another time all?
It's all still the same .01, .02,.03, .04,.05 sizes that are consistently getting traded. It'not like there is a .01 and next is 5 lots, then .1, then 10 lots.
I consider an account varying sizes of .01, .02,.03, .04,.05 still very consistent. There is no definition of consistent given at DZ. Only assumptions.
  • #938
  • May 25, 2025 6:56pm May 25, 2025 6:56pm
Btw, in your example of making 10k and withdrawing it and ending up at 100k, that's not what is happening at DZ.
You make the 10k with a promise of a commission that's floating and unrealized pending a settlement payday. Then while waiting, you get a dd of say 1k or 5k. Then ypur commission reduces or reverts back to zero (cause you didn't qualify for a commission say till 5k or more). Meanwhile, your positions start improving in the underlying account but it will take you many many months to get back to where you were in your darwin account because the RE has drastically cut your position sizing and now you have to make say 15k on top of the remaining 5k to get even near where you were before the dd. You lose ALL those accumulated commissions and end up with 20k profit in your underlying without a penny commissions paid to you.
Are we even trading the same DZ? You are in a different orbit all together.
  • #939
  • May 25, 2025 7:10pm May 25, 2025 7:10pm
Quoting OutThere
Btw, in your example of making 10k and withdrawing it and ending up at 100k, that's not what is happening at DZ. You make the 10k with a promise of a commission that's floating and unrealized pending a settlement payday. Then while waiting, you get a dd of say 1k or 5k. Then ypur commission reduces or reverts back to zero (cause you didn't qualify for a commission say till 5k or more). Meanwhile, your positions start improving in the underlying account but it will take you many many months to get back to where you were in your darwin account because...
Yes, if you hold losers TOO LONG or add TOO MUCH to a losing trade, of course, they cut you. They need to protect investor capital. Once again, you are focusing on the profit in the underlying signal account....mindset need to change. Try this, trade 0.01 lots, your multiplier will be 30+....if you want a high multiplier, that's all you need to do.I'm not sure what you are looking for Darwinrx to do....just let folks go into massive drawdown and lose investor capital?
  • #940
  • May 25, 2025 7:24pm May 25, 2025 7:24pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, if you hold losers TOO LONG or add TOO MUCH to a losing trade, of course, they cut you. They need to protect investor capital. Once again, you are focusing on the profit in the underlying signal account....mindset need to change. Try this, trade 0.01 lots, your multiplier will be 30+....if you want a high multiplier, that's all you need to do.I'm not sure what you are looking for Darwinrx to do....just let folks go into massive drawdown and lose investor capital?
I never lose. I recover my dd. So my dd is a float.
For example, if you have a credit card and you buy yourself 5k worth of red baseball caps to give to your friends, have you lost 5k and you are running out of town? No, with each pay chq you pay back 1k and you are back to even.
DZ on the other hand assumes you lost the money and cuts your available credit to $10 even if you keep paying those 1K's incrementally. Why? Cause their supposed investors which are years away to even invest in you, cut and run at the slightest sign of a dd. Therefore, with DZ, you just can't have any dd unless it's a $5 dd and within a short period of time you repay it plus some.
Also, once you repaid plus some and your balance is now 10% more, that is your new balance that you can't borrow against.
so you started with 100k, paid lots into it to make your balance 110k and now you can't borrow against 10k that you added to your credit because that 10k now belongs to thr credit card.
Hope you know what I mean cause that's exactly what you are doing.
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