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  • #41
  • Mar 29, 2025 8:00am Mar 29, 2025 8:00am
Interesting room created. We all must have been here mentally before. The way the markets are going it can be distasteful, but again we all know how good it can go when you get it right. I also have to come to grips with losing and making it back, than not cutting any losses. For example, I am still hoping Gold will go down back to 2950 before bouncing, but it seems all the leas likely, even though it is not that far away. I have some sells there, as I was then over confident, thinking it has to close that FVG created, retest it at least before bouncing higher, but it hasn't.

I feel for you, a little break is good, but come back when you feel better and ready, your head clear again, except if you have moved on completely and found something better, eg. If the ETF's or Money Market suits you better.
"Who Dares Wins"
  • #42
  • Edited 10:12am Mar 29, 2025 9:56am | Edited 10:12am
Quoting Nordling
{quote} There's a big information pollution in the internet because of the so called gurus who try to make money off of selling courses or making youtube videos. Which is making things harder for us retail traders. Most of us retails lost so much time, money and effort listening to them when we were new to trading. Including myself Similar to what you said, I also found success & consistency using the fundamental/macroeconomic approach. Of course it was a tough journey, tried & changed many approaches along the way. I used to be a long term...
The only people I know that were in actually institutional trading and some are still there are ITPM. I don't care what anyone says about them, whatever, been there, I know they are the real deal, I've learned from them, I will never take a look at the market the same way after they thought me. They are the real deal, and only real trader, that thought many retail traders out there including me. I will give people another clue: VOLATILITY is the word, and forex has the least volatility, you must go to Mid and Large cap stocks that is where volatility is. The reason why people in FOREX go from high time frames to 5minutes, they get bored and than want to try to make quick money which causes them to lose more than win. I will repeat again VOLATILITY can be traders best friend or worst enemy. FOREX most of the time is low on volatility that is why you go to mid to large cap stocks and look for higher volatility, to make money. S&P500 for example and Nasdaq100 they have thousands of different stocks shares so you go to those indexes you can trade them or the stock shares under them and make a lot of money.

Looking at forex you should only be trading four of the most volatility currency pairs: EurUsd, GbpUsd, AudUsd, UsdJpy because only 5% of returns every 3 months.

Take a look at this big sheet I shared with red rectangle the returns of mid to large cap stocks. That is where volatility and money is. You go to source, where successful institutional traders make money all the time and you do what they do.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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  • #43
  • Mar 29, 2025 10:27am Mar 29, 2025 10:27am
Quoting Terminalf12
{quote} The only people I know that were in actually institutional trading and some are still there are ITPM. I don't care what anyone says about them, whatever, been there, I know they are the real deal, I've learned from them, I will never take a look at the market the same way after they thought me. They are the real deal, and only real trader, that thought many retail traders out there including me. I will give people another clue: VOLATILITY is the word, and forex has the least volatility, you must go to Mid and Large cap stocks that is where...
I have always wondered if ITPM is legit or just another marketing project so i'm interested if you share your experience with them.

Yep, volatility is a trader's best friend if they know what they are doing with it. Thats why i only trade the news events & economic data releases. Rest of the time forex market is pretty dull & unpredictable for me. I also don't wanna get caught in random events that can happen when i'm away from the screen.

Trading the stock market requires a different set of skills than Forex imo. Knowing when to sell the earnings reports, when to buy the rumour before that etc. Although the volatility is great like u said
You have to have an IQ higher than 90 to interact with this user.
  • #44
  • Mar 29, 2025 10:44am Mar 29, 2025 10:44am
Quoting Nordling
{quote} I have always wondered if ITPM is legit or just another marketing project so i'm interested if you share your experience with them. Yep, volatility is a trader's best friend if they know what they are doing with it. Thats why i only trade the news events & economic data releases. Rest of the time forex market is pretty dull & unpredictable for me. I also don't wanna get caught in random events that can happen when i'm away from the screen. Trading the stock market requires a different set of skills than Forex imo. Knowing when to sell the...
They are legit. All of their mentors either worked for institutions and now are independent and some of them are still traders for institutions.

https://au.trustpilot.com/review/instituteoftrading.net

I am not affiliate with them, taken their courses years back, I have not been part of their discord or anything for a long time, but I can tell you it is worth the money and time, compare to all the fake retail education out there. I am speaking from experience. Took their FOREX course, and their PTM 1 and 2 which is about stocks and options. I will never look at the market same way again. From my experience, they are the only traders out there that can teach us retail traders how to trade and invest professionally. If you are starting in this business you should have minimum $30,000 in your own account. Your goal is once you have that in your account is to double the account as soon as possible and keep making money not to touch that money until you are over $300,000 or more. It is possible, anyone can do it, you just have to get a proper education and do your own work. Just like any other industry. Successful machine operator, finance, accounting, engineers, electrician, millwright, plumber, you learn from people that are successful in that trade or career and you do what they do. Same thing for example you open a restaurant, you are not going to have one or two tools to cook, you will invest a lot of money to have everything available. Same thing with trading, the more money you have, education you get from professionals that have been or are still in that field, the more money you will make and faster you will make it.
  • #45
  • Mar 29, 2025 11:07am Mar 29, 2025 11:07am
Quoting Terminalf12
{quote} S&P500 for example and Nasdaq100 they have thousands of different stocks shares so you go to those indexes you can trade them or the stock shares under them and make a lot of money. {image} {image}
lets say hundreds not thousands.
  • #46
  • Mar 29, 2025 11:29am Mar 29, 2025 11:29am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} lets say hundreds not thousands.
Globally, there are roughly 1,600 listed companies in the MSCI World Index with a market cap range of $1 billion to $2,900 billion, and an additional 3,000 mid-cap companies outside of that index.
  • #47
  • Mar 29, 2025 12:09pm Mar 29, 2025 12:09pm
Quoting alphaomega
Anyone who trades long enough (with real money) eventually will find that manual short term trading is not sustainable in the long run. It's better to follow the natural progression in the trading world and to upgrade your skills to sufficient level where you understand the market dynamics. And then you make the move to automated trading! It's the only way to grow. Much better to spend your time coding, developing and backtesting automated systems than to waste too much time staring at charts and reading news. Learning to code allows you to discover...
The question is , if many begin trading for some sort of financial freedom ( which is why I think most start), how is staring at a chart for 8-16 hours a day considered freedom? I have noticed people who go into trading to find some sort of balance financially in their lives, end up being damn near 24/7 looking at charts.

They quote/unquote want to escape the matrix, but end up falling to the "Matrix" of the markets. Searching for freedom, they enslave themselves to never ending chart watching, never ending data information processing, never ending phone alerts about prices, until eventually they crack.

I say this because I once fell into that "they".

Then somehow I found the strategy to enter on high probability moves on higher TF & just let it run, I stopped feeding the "need" to trade daily, but trade smarter. I stopped thinking that endless hours would equate to better return. Once I actually found that the less I looked, the better I did, something clicked. It became compared to almost like chasing a women. The less you try, the more she wants you. & suddenly I stopped being a slave. I somewhat regained control of my emotions, & I somewhat cared less. Then the gates opened. I was finally able to enter a place of bliss while trading. I had finally learned to swim with the currents, it just took patience & understanding truly that less is more in trading.

You dont have to "lock-In" to be a good trader, you just have to "lock-out"


P.S. I do NOT speak for scalpers. lol
If 95% Of Traders Fail, Then Why Are You Doing The Same Thing They Are.
  • #48
  • Mar 29, 2025 12:15pm Mar 29, 2025 12:15pm
Quoting Fxgfitking
{quote} The question is , if many begin trading for some sort of financial freedom ( which is why I think most start), how is staring at a chart for 8-16 hours a day considered freedom? I have noticed people who go into trading to find some sort of balance financially in their lives, end up being damn near 24/7 looking at charts. They quote/unquote want to escape the matrix, but end up falling to the "Matrix" of the markets. Searching for freedom, they enslave themselves to never ending chart watching, never ending data information processing, never...
I do agree with you. What retail don't get is that institutional traders like bank traders they have buy side and sell side. They have short term traders and long term traders. We retail can't day trade like bank traders do, because it is totally different to what retail traders think day trading is. What retail need to understand is bank traders have limit not to lose 12% a year from investments. They also have a SALARY, which means, they number one job is to protect investors money, and number two to try to make money but not go into negative no more then 12% a year. If you take a look Goldman Sachs form 10 K, you will notice that overall, they are always in profit. Some days they will have loss trades, but overall quarterly they are always in positive. Those are the players we need to follow and do what they do. Unfortunately many retail traders will never do that, and they will keep losing money and coming back to FF and similar threads, and think that day trading will make them full time income, but it won't. Scalping is gambling, so is day trading. Fundamentals plus long term timing the trade, is how professionals will do and the best way for retail traders, the only way for retail traders to make an income. If you look back couple of years, if you invested in gold and s&p500 and buy, and kept adding some funds, you would make a lot of money your account would be in hundreds thousands of dollars no matter what.
  • #49
  • Mar 29, 2025 12:21pm Mar 29, 2025 12:21pm
Quoting Fxgfitking
how is staring at a chart for 8-16 hours a day considered freedom?
That is freedom...you have no boss, you are your own boss and you can do it anywhere in the world. Freedom means something else to everyone...for some people not working is freedom, for me not working is a nightmare and life without a meaning. Look at Warren Buffett...he is well over 90 and sharper than most 30 year olds these days. If he retired at 60, he would be dead before 70. Without work there is no free time, so you can't even enjoy the time...it becomes boring and there is no joy in life. The longer people work, the longer they usually live.
Everyone can see the chart, but only a few can actually read it.
  • #50
  • Mar 29, 2025 12:26pm Mar 29, 2025 12:26pm
Quoting OnlineAddict
{quote} That is freedom...you have no boss, you are your own boss and you can do it anywhere in the world. Freedom means something else to everyone...for some people not working is freedom, for me not working is a nightmare and life without a meaning. Look at Warren Buffett...he is well over 90 and sharper than most 30 year olds these days. If he retired at 60, he would be dead before 70. Without work there is no free time, so you can't even enjoy the time...it becomes boring and there is no joy in life. The longer people work, the longer they usually...
Day trading and scalping is not freedom, it is a gamble that no one ever made money and career on long term, and they never will. Warren Buffett is an investor not a trader, there is a big difference.

The key difference between a trader and an investor lies in their time horizon and approach to the market: traders focus on short-term price movements for quick gains, while investors focus on long-term growth and wealth accumulation by holding assets for extended periods.

Which means not a day trading. Traders hold positions 1 to 3 months horizon. Investors hold 6 months and more, like for a year, two, five, ten and so on. Which means for forex there is a chance once maybe twice a year, that big moves happen and you buy/sell and hold for certain period of time like 1 to 3 months. Stocks for example s&p500 is the one you can hold for 5, 10 years or forever, you just have to time it, and hold it, and let it run up. Once you pass that entry and s&p500 goes up, sometimes it will pullback like any asset, but you will be able to survive, protect your earnings on it, and add more to the positions. Stocks and options is where money is. Forex is not, low volatility and limited opportunities. Now you can sell Dollar vs certain pairs and hold until Dollar gets to 100, because dollar is bearish this year. So you could of bought or still can buy gbpusd and eurusd. Those have most volatility in forex, the rest is slow and it will drive you crazy. Buying gold and s&p500 4 years ago, you would be very happy today to how much you would make. Day traders and scalpers do not stand a chance long term, they all lose eventually and they lose a lot of money like $30,000 or more on average.
  • #51
  • Edited 1:24pm Mar 29, 2025 12:44pm | Edited 1:24pm
Quoting OnlineAddict
{quote} That is freedom...you have no boss, you are your own boss and you can do it anywhere in the world. Freedom means something else to everyone...for some people not working is freedom, for me not working is a nightmare and life without a meaning. Look at Warren Buffett...he is well over 90 and sharper than most 30 year olds these days. If he retired at 60, he would be dead before 70. Without work there is no free time, so you can't even enjoy the time...it becomes boring and there is no joy in life. The longer people work, the longer they usually...
I agree with you. Freedom has diff meaning for sure for everyone, but thats far from freedom in my definition & many people that I know who are successful in their endeavors that I have learned what true financial freedom means. When you begin any business/skill/career your job & goal should be put 100% effort into learning & expanding in the beginning. However as you grow, and your skill set/business grow - the goal for many business owners/entrepreneurs is "how can I make the same amount money, or more, with less effort? For some business its raising their fees/prices or expanding due to increased skill set, notoriety, popularity etc. So many successful in their field end up doing less, but making more.

I take this same approach with trading I guess.

As much as I enjoy charts, and analyzing them, I find my freedom form trading comes when I no longer have to enslave myself to the charts as much as I did when I started, or stress out about the things that got you to quit in the first place that you mentioned previously in this thread. Trading is not my only endeavor however, so I am far from being bored.

I agree trading is nuts, sometimes I ask myself like why do I do this again? However I do enjoy the simplicity of seeing how I have learned to maneuver & adapt to the markets as they evolve.

Again I am a retial/prop trader. I don't get paid for anything else than what I win. Now if I was being paid to sit here for 16 hours - then maybe I'd do it.
If 95% Of Traders Fail, Then Why Are You Doing The Same Thing They Are.
  • #52
  • Mar 29, 2025 12:52pm Mar 29, 2025 12:52pm
Do what successful traders and investors do, emulate them, and do what they do, and you will win and make money, all the time.
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  • #53
  • Mar 29, 2025 12:55pm Mar 29, 2025 12:55pm
Quoting Terminalf12
{quote} Day trading and scalping is not freedom, it is a gamble that no one ever made money and career on long term, and they never will.
I am day trading, everything else is boring to me. But i always have a medium to long term direction in mind and I use higher leverage when trading with the medium term direction(the direction I predict will happen or already started) and less leverage and risk when I scalp in the other direction.
Everyone can see the chart, but only a few can actually read it.
  • #54
  • Mar 29, 2025 1:00pm Mar 29, 2025 1:00pm
Investors are not convinced yet that market is bullish, because of tariffs. Let's see if s&p500 can go into bearish correction 20-30%.
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  • #55
  • Mar 29, 2025 1:07pm Mar 29, 2025 1:07pm
Quoting OnlineAddict
{quote} I am day trading, everything else is boring to me. But i always have a medium to long term direction in mind and I use higher leverage when trading with the medium term direction(the direction I predict will happen or already started) and less leverage and risk when I scalp in the other direction.
You can't make money as retail trader, when you trade as day trader. Odds are against you, and you will eventually lose some or all of your investment. The only way to make money as a retail trader is to go to the source like Goldman Sachs traders, and do what they do. Every quarter, or year, they are in positive and make money all the time. Retail trader can't make full time income if day trading. There is a reason why professional traders like Goldman Sachs traders and other institution traders, trade from data and buy/sell and hold for 1 month or longer. Do what they do, emulate them, learn how they do it, and you will make money full time income all the time. That is something you will not learn here on FF.
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  • #56
  • Mar 29, 2025 1:27pm Mar 29, 2025 1:27pm
Key word: Emulate.
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  • #57
  • Mar 29, 2025 1:53pm Mar 29, 2025 1:53pm
The sad thing is with all evidence provided, that retail day traders do not stand a chance, and will never make a full time income, they will still do the same thing, dislike the posts, which is the same retail day traders that consistently lose money, all evidence in front of them, but they will unfortunately not get it, and still keep paying their hard earned money to the market, and will never learn. But if you emulate the successful traders, you will find out that it is not that hard, it is like any job that you do it for a while and get good at it.
  • #58
  • Mar 29, 2025 2:12pm Mar 29, 2025 2:12pm
Quoting Terminalf12
{quote} You can't make money as retail trader, when you trade as day trader. Odds are against you, and you will eventually lose some or all of your investment. The only way to make money as a retail trader is to go to the source like Goldman Sachs traders, and do what they do. Every quarter, or year, they are in positive and make money all the time. Retail trader can't make full time income if day trading. There is a reason why professional traders like Goldman Sachs traders and other institution traders, trade from data and buy/sell and hold for...
Weird, I have been doing it for 16 years. Again, don't judge others by you or what you heard from someone.

And I don't even think I am that great of a trader...I see myself as not knowing anything, learning new things every day, so I am entering each trade with an exit strategy. Everytime I get too confident about a direction, I am worried about it. Leverage and money management is 90% in trading, 10% is skill and knowledge.
Everyone can see the chart, but only a few can actually read it.
  • #59
  • Mar 29, 2025 2:32pm Mar 29, 2025 2:32pm
Despite all the theories and opinions check for yourself..
Can you make 20 pips a day not to lose it?
Maybe 10 pips? 5 pips? In a day and keeping it?.
on a postive roll...
  • #60
  • Mar 29, 2025 2:40pm Mar 29, 2025 2:40pm
Quoting OnlineAddict
{quote} Weird, I have been doing it for 16 years. Again, don't judge others by you or what you heard from someone. And I don't even think I am that great of a trader...I see myself as not knowing anything, learning new things every day, so I am entering each trade with an exit strategy. Everytime I get too confident about a direction, I am worried about it. Leverage and money management is 90% in trading, 10% is skill and knowledge.
You can keep telling yourself that and try to convince yourself all you want. You are not making an full time income from "scalping or day trading". The odds are against you, and I will go by the evidence stating that no retail trader ever made it on the longer term scalping or day trading. It is a casino, that will always win against you. However I will focus on Goldman Sachs form 10K evidence, bloomberg and other institution analysts as I have been for years, and that is where evidence of success is. But it is your money, if you like to give your money to the markets by day trading, go for it, it is your choice. I have been there years back "day trading" but realized soon after that, there is more to it, than 5 minutes chart gamble. All evidence from institutions i attached the picture, they are legit, shows that day traders do not stand a chance, and they will lose money no matter what fancy things they show on 5 minutes charts. You will have to comeback and show evidence from similar legit institutions that "retail day traders" actually make money, and is possible, and than the whole industry will probably change their mind and start trading different ways. So far evidence show otherwise, and shows that applying fundamentals and timing and holding the trades one month and more works, and all institutional legit firms, banks, trade that way and make money. Look up Goldman Sachs form 10K and you will get it. You will not make money and will never experience that feeling as long as you are stuck in retail mindset, and day trading. Once you start emulating successful institution traders, you will than and only than understand what works in this business and what not. What you come across when you see traders from Goldman Sachs, Bloomberg they always talk about data numbers, economy, and barely any charts. That should be enough to tell you that they are the way to go and only way. There is no particular system that will make you money on long term when it comes to chart patterns, it is absolute ridiculous, and never worked. All supply/demand, support/resistance, Wyckoff and all that only will work, when data is good to buy or bad to sell, and than you can possibly take a look at pattern, time it and buy/sell. All the "day traders" have a day job.
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