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Institutional Equivalent Education?

  • #1,201
  • Feb 4, 2025 6:50am Feb 4, 2025 6:50am
I don't understand how anybody can believe that Ray 'makes a living teaching people to trade'. If he did he would be charging much more and would participate in marketing webinars much more frequently than current (once every couple of years).

Yes, Ray spend some time on things which are current - because it is often those which are either affecting markets or catching the eyes of retail traders.
Also on 'price and volume' platforms there have been no new indicators for decades, indeed many of them date back well over 70 yrs. Knowing which ones to use which ones to combine and under what conditions is the added value that a good educator brings.
While the MAM Spectrometer is currently the most 'popular' part of MAX, it is just one small part and does not eliminate the need for fundamentals , price action and orderflow/tape reading skills - so why do people spend so much time trying to figure out which standard indicators it's based upon? After all, Ray could have designed it around several similar alternative indicators.

@mcquak appears to think that all indicators are worthless, as is any knowledge about how to use and combine them. I find that isn't the case even though I too believe that many indicators are redundant (for me) - after all who needs more than 3 different cyclical range bound indicators or more than one or two trending indicators (value lines from correlated markets excluded)?
  • #1,202
  • Edited Feb 5, 2025 8:32am Feb 4, 2025 11:35pm | Edited Feb 5, 2025 8:32am
Quoting ianf0ster
I don't understand how anybody can believe that Ray 'makes a living teaching people to trade'. If he did he would be charging much more and would participate in marketing webinars much more frequently than current (once every couple of years).

@mcquak appears to think that all indicators are worthless, as is any knowledge about how to use and combine them. I find that isn't the case even though I too believe that many indicators are redundant (for me) - after all who needs more than 3 different cyclical range bound indicators or more than one...
Ian, I understand your biased attitude, but it is given by the fact that you apparently do not want to see.

1. Ray cannot be an institutional trader because he would risk his career with these courses and might even face criminal prosecution. Investment banking and its regulations and compliance are uncompromising in this regard. The fact that Compass uses the word “institutional” in its marketing materials is fraud.

2. Ray never gave anything for free or almost for free. On the contrary, a few years ago he switched from paying for a weekly course to a monthly subscription model, which is not exactly cheap, but given the level of his curriculum, it is overpriced. I have written elsewhere that I suspect him of deliberately confusing and mixing apples with pears to cover up the fact that nothing he “teaches” can work in retail. His evangelists excuse this with his genius and curse everyone who tries to challenge it.

3. His value lines are not such a revolutionary science, and are mostly not even his construct. If you already know them and know what to look for, you can find many such value lines on Investopedia or academic papers. Yes, Ray opened my eyes that something like this exists, but that is quite little for the thousands of dollars he received from me.

4. Ray confuses people by calling some lines names like grail, banker's bet, etc. He shows in his presentations how perfectly they work. Except that they don't at all. He deliberately presents these grail and banker lines only on days when they work, but never on days when they don't work. He manipulates the crowd. He's a cowboy selling snake oil without even blushing.

What does AI say about CompassFX?

CompassFX is a company that provides services and education in financial market trading, especially in the forex market. They offer several key services and products:

  1. Trading platforms and tools for forex trading.
  2. Educational programs and courses for both beginner and experienced traders.
  3. A set of indicators for analysis and trading in the forex market.
  4. Paid membership with access to advanced trading strategies and analyses.

CompassFX presents itself as a company that "knows what traders want" and emphasizes its experience with thousands of traders worldwide. It offers various levels of services, from basic tools to advanced institutional trading skills.

It's important to note that CompassFX, like many similar companies in this industry, uses aggressive marketing tactics. For example, they offer a course for $2,497 that promises "extraordinary training from a bank trader" and a "rare opportunity to learn exactly how institutional traders trade". These claims should be viewed critically, as they may be exaggerated or misleading.

So Ian, Compass does use advertising tricks and aggresive marketing practices. I would say they conform to the standard in this industry. No shucks, Sherlock .

  • #1,203
  • Feb 5, 2025 2:21am Feb 5, 2025 2:21am
I agree with the red flags that come with Ray, I even joined the room again late 2024 to see what has changed in recent years, sadly nothing.
This is how he starts the day going over 100% hindsight trades with 100% winners - ever single day, he then shows selective tweets , to support his hindsight trades but of course ignores the tweets that were wrong. He then shows a few trades P/L, all taken on sim trades in Ninja but sadly all that happened hours ago. He then berates everyone for not taking his hindsight sim trades and says you could have made $1000s of dollars if you simply press the button.
What a joke and his cult followers always chime in for support, yet you can only ever read of 2/3 people max who make any money, yet the room has 150 people and over 1000 have taken his course.
Ray is not a retail trader and I agree that 99% of what he teaches can be found elsewhere for free and will not work in the retail space, as for Kim, his side kick, she is a total waste of space and knows nothing about trading but does manage to con people into signing up for the room so she can collect subs and she know that less than 1% of the people who have completed his course are successful - she is a con artist who spouts total lies on a daily basis.
  • #1,204
  • Feb 5, 2025 8:54am Feb 5, 2025 8:54am
Hello everyone,
Ive been studying Ray videos for the past six months, spending considerable time on them and conducting evaluations, so I can provide you with a comprehensive review
Question: Have I been profitable so far?
Answer: No.

Ive encountered numerous challenges
Hold the trade until the next pivot or measured move. When I started, I practiced with one-tick bonds to use with the DOM & Ive developed a bad habit take profit early sometimes even 3-4 ticks
Sometimes I executed revenge trades, and at other times I traded because I was bored lol (these are the reasons im not profitable and these are the reasons why most people arent profitable even after taking the course. I know a guy who does the exact same things, but while hes highly profitable, iam not)

Lets talk about the course. Personally, I think it’s great, but Ray overcomplicates it by making thousands of videos to cover few topics.
  • #1,205
  • Edited 10:17am Feb 5, 2025 9:44am | Edited 10:17am
Quoting Domtrader
Lets talk about the course. Personally, I think it’s great, but Ray overcomplicates it by making thousands of videos to cover few topics.

We cannot discuss the course in detail as it would breach the NDA. The course covers some lesser-known macro and quant methods/value lines. However, apart from that, it is a waste of money. Nothing like this could work in the retail space.
Ray's DOM and other technical lessons are subpar. Everything is fuzzy and unclear because he wants to keep you engaged for as long as possible to cover his living expenses. The longer you stay, the better for him.

Speaking of institutional trading approaches.
Here you can find some information about correlated assets and relative value trading. Mr. Delgado had a series of very interesting articles on 'institutional' approaches to trading between 2017-2021.
Global Prime – Medium
How Divergence In Correlated Assets Can Help You Add An Edge To Your Trading | by Global Prime | Medium
  • #1,206
  • Feb 5, 2025 10:03am Feb 5, 2025 10:03am
Hey, could you upload the trades you took over the past week or so? That way, we can analyze what might be wrong with your process. After all, trading is just a game of probability even with good value, strong divergence, solid order flow, and a good tape, we can still end up on the wrong side At that point, I cut my losses and try to add to my winning trades. You can re enter according to orderflow.
So, I took 4-5 trades. As you can see in the picture, I took all half-back trades here and also a spring trade with a failed auction. However, I exited before the pivot point. (Sorry, Im not at my desk.)
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  • #1,207
  • Feb 5, 2025 10:45am Feb 5, 2025 10:45am
I took five trades today three half-back, one spring, and one re-entry on half-back. If i just stuck to my plan for these trades, it’s worth for 170 ticks on ES. However, I ended up exiting all my trades with just 5-10 ticks because I saw big red numbers on the tape and feared losing a few ticks lol. In the end, I only made 26 ticks from all my trades today. These are my problems & im working to overcome them.
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  • #1,208
  • Feb 5, 2025 11:17am Feb 5, 2025 11:17am
Quoting Domtrader
I took five trades today three half-back, one spring, and one re-entry on half-back. If i just stuck to my plan for these trades, it’s worth for 170 ticks on ES. However, I ended up exiting all my trades with just 5-10 ticks because I saw big red numbers on the tape and feared losing a few ticks lol. In the end, I only made 26 ticks from all my trades today. These are my problems & im working to overcome them. {image}
An account that's not even a month old and you're trying to discuss trades that can't be discussed because you have value lines that you can't 'reveal.' Quite a foolish attempt to push unpleasant posts into history. If you want to discuss your trading, you have a Skype channel. Here, due to the NDA we signed, it's counterproductive.

Ask Reeve or others in the Skype channel why your trades aren't working. Here, you're just wasting time and disrupting the discussion about CompassFX and Ray.
  • #1,209
  • Mar 19, 2025 12:46am Mar 19, 2025 12:46am
Quoting ianf0ster
I don't understand how anybody can believe that Ray 'makes a living teaching people to trade'. If he did he would be charging much more and would participate in marketing webinars much more frequently than current (once every couple of years). Yes, Ray spend some time on things which are current - because it is often those which are either affecting markets or catching the eyes of retail traders. Also on 'price and volume' platforms there have been no new indicators for decades, indeed many of them date back well over 70 yrs. Knowing which ones...
Can remember when the course started, the aim was to avoid indicators. Indeed "Ray's" early Sierra charts were relatively uncluttered. Now watching his most recent charts the charts are riddled with indicators to the point you can hardly see the price action!

I have to confess I've only watched the video's uploaded to Youtube for free. But now we are back to selling indicators again.

I watched one video where "Ray" books a trade. Which involved sticking dollar sign on a chart. Hmmm.

He really needs to be pushed by the room, into showing his trades lives,working the DOM and time and sales etc..and indication of sizing, risk management etc, without which I think you are wasting your money.
  • #1,210
  • Mar 19, 2025 3:22am Mar 19, 2025 3:22am
Certainly one main reason for more lines on Ray's charts is the change in what is available for retail traders. Back when he started the vast majority of retail traders were purely trading Forex using the MT4 platform - so no DOM, no Delta, no Limit Order Book and no charts smaller than the 1 min timeframe.
It's well known that Ray can't program, so the indicators developed for his students spend a long time in development because they are developed by others to match Ray's ideas and so need lots of testing and tweaking.

Ray has shown trading using the DOM and Time&Sales, but frankly for most those are far too fast to enable learning for most students. They are much better learned in a one-to-one situation.

Position sizing and risk management is a very dry and individual subject. Since Ray doesn't teach just a single strategy or a single market with a set account size so there is a limit to how much it is worth him covering on this subject. Personally as any long term readers of this thread know, I'm a big fan of multi unit trading and taking profits at various points so as to reduce the psychological pressure that would result from the typical all-in /all-out trading that is mostly taught elsewhere (with fixed Risk/Reward ratios and all that garbage).
  • #1,211
  • Mar 19, 2025 3:51am Mar 19, 2025 3:51am
Quoting ianf0ster
Certainly one main reason for more lines on Ray's charts is the change in what is available for retail traders. Back when he started the vast majority of retail traders were purely trading Forex using the MT4 platform - so no DOM, no Delta, no Limit Order Book and no charts smaller than the 1 min timeframe. It's well known that Ray can't program, so the indicators developed for his students spend a long time in development because they are developed by others to match Ray's ideas and so need lots of testing and tweaking. Ray has shown trading using...
I'd agree with how fast moving DOM and time and sales are. Admittedly very difficult to teach I'd imagine and you'd probably just have to get a feel for how the market is going which will be unique for every trader.
  • #1,212
  • Mar 30, 2025 1:45am Mar 30, 2025 1:45am
Quoting ianf0ster
Certainly one main reason for more lines on Ray's charts is the change in what is available for retail traders. Back when he started the vast majority of retail traders were purely trading Forex using the MT4 platform - so no DOM, no Delta, no Limit Order Book and no charts smaller than the 1 min timeframe. It's well known that Ray can't program, so the indicators developed for his students spend a long time in development because they are developed by others to match Ray's ideas and so need lots of testing and tweaking. Ray has shown trading using...
Ray occasionally shows screenshots from Ninja. It's interesting that all his trades are profitable, with absolutely no losses. The same applies to his alter ego, Reeve: 100% profitable trades, without a single loss. And neither of them uses stop losses.

Similarly, Ray always presents situations and setups where his 'value lines' work perfectly. However, he never shows when they fail, leaving everyone wondering why. This charade is utter nonsense. Nothing works 100% of the time. Only sharing successful stories is suspicious and suggests he doesn't actually trade. I watched an older class on volatility rotations, which was decent. In one instance, he showed two perfectly profitable trades on a chart. However, there were other points on the same chart that fit the 'pattern' but resulted in complete losses. Ray, for some reason, didn't mention these.

I also watched a recent video where Ray demonstrates 'market making' on the DOM ladder. As I've said before, these videos involving the DOM, LOB, and ladder prove he's not a real trader. If he understood icebergs, spoofing, and dark pools, he wouldn't dare show such nonsense. Yet, he seriously claims that observing the LOB on the ladder being skewed is a sign and pattern that dictates how to trade. This is complete bullshit.

Ray's a con artist, plain and simple. He's selling you a bill of goods. Don't fall for it.Don't buy his course.
  • #1,213
  • Mar 30, 2025 10:03am Mar 30, 2025 10:03am
@mcquak The majority of what you say is false. Both Reeve and Ray use emergency stop losses - but they are just for emergencies when it would be difficult to manage an exit based upon adverse value or adverse order flow.
Ray freely admits that he has many scratch trades which would be small losses (due to charges) for a retail trader, the same with Reeve however there is no educational value in showing them because they are just cases where the unexpected happens, from un-scheduled news to a major player entering or exiting at an unusual place or time.

I remember when Reeve first started with Ray and he was trying to trade Bonds for the first time (he was previously strictly an equites trader). For several months he showed me most of his trades, asking for my advice in order to make them more profitable. At that time due to having only a small account, Reeve was keeping his stop loss too tight, hence him now using only an emergency SL and relying or OrderFlow for his exits - both his profitable ones and his losing exits. Certainly Reeve is no alter ego of Ray, he mostly doesn't even trade the same way since he trades using a shorter timeframe and so in Bonds at least he is often short when Ray is long and vice versa.

One reason that Ray rarely shows 'value line' trades failing is because he uses many more value lines than shown and he is constantly switching to ones which are suitably correlated to his markets. We students can't use the Bank's neural network like he does, but a simple correlation indicator - or even eyeball is usually sufficient, unless the driver of the market changes just after entry.

It is notable that for around the last year, Reeve rarely uses value lines preferring to base his trades on OrderFlow and the transforms part of the Max Spectrometer.

I would suggest that Ray's students understand liquidity, icebergs, spoofing and off market block trades better than the vast majority of retail traders because Ray needed to educate one of the Bookmap education team on how liquidity changes function between attracting Price and Repelling Price instead of the way they were teaching it.

I can't comment your statements about the DOM, since I have only used it for speed of trade entry/exit, doing my analysis on my Sierra and TradingView charts.
  • #1,214
  • Edited 11:30am Mar 30, 2025 11:17am | Edited 11:30am
Quoting ianf0ster
@mcquak The majority of what you say is false. Both Reeve and Ray use emergency stop losses - but they are just for emergencies when it would be difficult to manage an exit based upon adverse value or adverse order flow. Ray freely admits that he has many scratch trades which would be small losses (due to charges) for a retail trader, the same with Reeve however there is no educational value in showing them because they are just cases where the unexpected happens, from un-scheduled news to a major player entering or exiting at an unusual place or...
It is so sad that you are so biased toward that "wannabe" institutional trader. He isn’t one, believe me. As I’ve already stated many times, why would he risk his career and well-paid job by teaching things he’s not supposed to, due to a signed contract with a financial institution? Believe me or not, institutional traders are forbidden from performing activities like the ones Ray engages in.

He admits he experienced small scratch trades. But as I said, he has never shared a screenshot showing a stop-loss, nor has he ever shared a screenshot of an alleged scratch trade. And believe me or not, even institutional traders can be wrong and take losses. Not Ray, though—he’s a god, he never loses. Don’t you see how that must be nonsense?

And Ian, thanks to you, it’s been confirmed and clarified that Ray’s value lines are useless at least 50%(but rather more) of time. Now tell me, why would anyone invest a huge pile of cash in a "course" that doesn’t actually teach how to trade profitably?

Ray is a horrible teacher (I replaced the former word with "teacher"...). He loves to hear himself talking. He can easily spend 2 hours talking about a single value line and even make contradictory claims about it within one class. It’s really laughable.

I know the audience likes him because he’s a good and sympathetic actor. But that doesn’t make him a good trader.Quite the opposite.

Ray's a con artist, plain and simple. He's selling you a bill of goods. Don't fall for it. Don't buy his course.


Don't let Kim and Compassfx.com scam you.

  • #1,215
  • Edited 12:53pm Mar 31, 2025 12:36pm | Edited 12:53pm

A rather dismal, yet telling, example of what one receives for approximately two to three grand.

A clear lesson indeed: Ray is simply a charlatan, out for your dosh.

As for trading? He hasn't a clue.

His lessons are consistently vague, muddled, and utter rubbish.

The reason? Purely to get paid and enjoy the proceeds.

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Ray's a con artist, plain and simple. He's selling you a bill of goods. Don't fall for it. Don't buy his course.


Don't let Kim and Compassfx.com scam you.

  • #1,216
  • Mar 31, 2025 3:14pm Mar 31, 2025 3:14pm
@mcquak

All you said above is that Ray's value lines are no use to somebody too lazy to check a correlation.
I (and I'm sure even Ray) have no problem with that statement when worded correctly.
Ray constantly tells us to 'do the work'
  • #1,217
  • Edited 4:01pm Mar 31, 2025 3:42pm | Edited 4:01pm
Quoting mcquak
A rather dismal, yet telling, example of what one receives for approximately two to three grand. A clear lesson indeed: Ray is simply a charlatan, out for your dosh. As for trading? He hasn't a clue. His lessons are consistently vague, muddled, and utter rubbish. The reason? Purely to get paid and enjoy the proceeds. {image} Ray's a con artist, plain and simple. He's selling you a bill of goods. Don't fall for it. Don't buy his course. Don't let Kim and Compassfx.com scam you.
Yes, I agree that the guy who posted that question is rather dismal.
He obviously was late into the room and so missed when Ray explained what he was covering and what the chart was, ignored the fact that Ray mentioned Fed Operations several times throughout the lesson and when completely lost he didn't even bother to ask in the room!

I'm sure that you @macquak (even you) recognise from that chart that Ray was discussing (daily) Fed Standing Repo Facility and the price scale makes it obvious that this is the Ultra Bond bot the prices plus the fact that Equites don't trade in 1/32nds. And you must know (having been a failed student of Ray) but Michael apparently does not, Ray's charts are always London time.
Michael also 'helpfully' chops the timescale and dates off the chart.
Oh, and the chart was going through the pattern every day last week - so there is the 1hr reduction in time difference.
The chart is a 30 min chart so the 16:30 candle closes a 17:00

The reason I didn't answer this in the 'Self Help Group' when I saw it posted is that our group rules state that members should do some investigation (ever heard of Google?) before asking questions.

So it's quite right that Ray's teaching is more for Phd s than for dummies. Ray clearly says that students need to be able to think and I've never seen his courses advertised as being for complete lazy beginners, or for the terminally stupid.
  • #1,218
  • Mar 31, 2025 11:31pm Mar 31, 2025 11:31pm
Quoting ianf0ster
{quote} Yes, I agree that the guy who posted that question is rather dismal. He obviously was late into the room and so missed when Ray explained what he was covering and what the chart was, ignored the fact that Ray mentioned Fed Operations several times throughout the lesson and when completely lost he didn't even bother to ask in the room! I'm sure that you @macquak (even you) recognise from that chart that Ray was discussing (daily) Fed Standing Repo Facility and the price scale makes it obvious that this is the Ultra Bond bot the prices plus...
Lol, Ian, you must be really desperate. You’re not profitable, just like the majority of the course participants, and maybe even Ray (he never showed any evidence that he's an institutional trader or that he’s actively trading)

You don't need a PhD to see that Ray is just selling nonsense. Have you ever considered common sense? You only need to watch five of his videos to realize he's clearly "sick" and unable to genuinely "teach" anything.
I'm not lazy or stupid, as you imply. I simply know that what you said, particularly about correlation, is rubbish. Ray criticizes people for using technical indicators, calling them stupid, and then proceeds to teach about correlation, which is essentially the same type of flawed indicator. Perhaps if you Google the disadvantages of correlation, the lightbulb on your shoulders might finally turn on.

Ray's a con artist, plain and simple. He's selling you a bill of goods. Don't fall for it. Don't buy his course.


Don't let Kim and Compassfx.com scam you.

  • #1,219
  • Apr 1, 2025 4:17am Apr 1, 2025 4:17am
Correlation isn't just a simple lagging indicator.
If you don't believe that the markets are correlated and that the big boys base their arbitrages on this, then you are more deluded than I thought.
  • #1,220
  • Edited 5:25am Apr 1, 2025 4:54am | Edited 5:25am
Quoting ianf0ster
Correlation isn't just a simple lagging indicator. If you don't believe that the markets are correlated and that the big boys base their arbitrages on this, then you are more deluded than I thought.

Ian, it's evident you don't understand correlation or cointegration (concepts even Ray hasn't fully addressed) and how they function. These inter-asset correlations are not easily utilized by retail traders. Ray's description of them is misleading. You can't simply buy one lot of an asset and sell one lot of another. Implementing this strategy requires a sophisticated algorithm to calculate precise hedge ratio of positions ( based on lot of different factors) . It's never a simple 1-to-1 ratio, as some and specifically Ray would claim.
Furthermore, Ray's R-squared concept is flawed. It's clear neither you nor Ray have a fundamental mathematical understanding of these principles. And remember, correlation does not imply causation – that's a separate issue. But let' stop here. You have significant learning to do this week already.

( will add the teaser later)
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