{quote} Yes, commissions earned are not the same as trading your own capital. You are paid for a service and those are also not subject to VAT. And if you live in Germany and are successful trading your own large capital you can open a company and the 20k rule will not apply anymore. Of course you will have taxes on your company's profit, all social taxes and then income taxes.... But still better as paying income taxes on your losses, which is quite a funny utopia lol, danke socialismus ! Bulgaria is also great, only 10% income taxes.
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Yes, opening a company could be the best option, all taxes on your trading will be lower, much lower. The biggest hurdle though is finding a Broker that will accept an Institutional Account. On top of that a good one, with decent spreads and conditions.
{quote} As long as (typical) loss from trading is less than €20k, all is still good..
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Sure, 1 million profit, 20 K loss in a year, and all is still good.
Chances are if you are profitable, and have an excellent R expectation, with the new tax rule, you will be able to make an average of maybe 1000 Euros a month, which you will have to pay taxes on.
I am talking of a 1 to 3 R, which is awesome.
Achieve that, compound your profits and you will be a millionaire soon. With this tax, maybe 1000 Euros a month, which is not bad.
If you achieve the 1 to 3, even 1 to 2 average, and you don´t leave Germany, you are a patriot, or an idiot, your choice.
In 2021, day trading in Germany will be dead so is it dead yet? only a month left of 21, maybe it will die in 22?
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I would answer that it's not, allow me to elaborate ;
Those rare dudes that were making shit load of money were probably forced anyway to open a company, because if your income from trading is your only income or higher than your current job income, you have to. In this case the 20k rule doesn't apply.
Also most of the successful German traders, I guess, didn't wait this new law to take fiscal advantage of other countries.
The German government, even though very questionable about entrepreneurship and freedoms, did that to avoid peoples, newbies in trading to put big money on the table as trading is not an investment but high risk speculation, which by the way is an utopia given that only Germany in EU did that anyway...
So given that you are just allowed to loose 20k you would put less money on the table, if profitable you could still open a company..., And that is less than 5%, probably even less than 1% so it makes sens in a way.
What does not is the ultra socialism and the lack of freedom, in a so called capitalism and democratic country.
More and more, democracy in Europe is just a facade and a political correctness hypocrisy, fully socialist by rewarding the lazy with open bar and free lunch.
I'm out guys anyway! Good luck for the decading Europe though.
Nevertheless, this outrageous law still needs to be changed and I wouldn't be so sure that the result will be as favourable as it used to be in Germany. In fact, Germany was not such a bad place for traders because it was one of the very few countries that applied the flat-rate „Abgeltungssteuer“ (as a counterpart to the capital gains tax) to all securities/FX/forward transactions and did not, as is the case in many other countries, somehow try to differentiate between professional activities or similar more or less arbitrary categories. I remember that when I lived in the UK, I had 3 differing (professional!) opinions on the tax-free state of spread betting and all countries that have no capital gains tax will tax professional trading as income which is usually higher. Of course, the FDP will have no problem with this. The SPD and Greens are more likely to, and it is conceivable that this could lead to a general worsening of the flat-rate „Abgeltungssteuer“ or even to an abolishment of that favourable tax rate altogether. I guess that it would probably be best if the current government no longer dealt with this issue, but the next one, when we will hopefully see Mr Merz as chancellor.
Before that law, I thought German taxes may be (mostly) high (and too high for me to ever live there again) but at least almost always based on some rational instead of an ideological bullshit agenda. Then came Olaf Scholz and the clown of the left-wing of his SPD who invented that madness (I forgot the name of that a***hole).
As catastrophic as the Bindingsteuer (he is called Lothar Binding @ JensG) may seem, the reality looks somewhat different. I am aware of half a dozen cases where the responsible tax authority simply did not apply this unconstitutional nonsense.
While this looks relieving in the first moment, it makes it difficult to get rid of it it by bringing it to court.
{quote} You should stop panicing a bit. This thing will definitely go to law and beeing crushed afterwards for sure. Furthermore we have general elections in the upcoming year, so there might be still something happening until then. Balls my friend. Fight for your rights!
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With common sense this was more than expected, as I told you already years ago!
Just imagine all the wasted ressources that have been spent to adapt or circumvent this nonsense.
I did not change anything and was right afterwards.
Am heutigen Morgen wurde die begrenzte Verlustverrechnung von 20k Euro gekippt. Den Quatsch sind wir also wieder los! {image}
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Wer sie nicht bezahlte, sei es durch Widerspruch oder schlichte Nichtdeklaration, braucht sie nicht zu bezahlen - wer bezahlte kriegt aber nix zurück! Woke Gerechtigkeit - der Ehrliche ist wieder der Dumme!
Am heutigen Morgen wurde die begrenzte Verlustverrechnung von 20k Euro gekippt. Den Quatsch sind wir also wieder los! {image}
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Ebenso klamm und heimlich begraben wie eingeführt. Zugutehalten muss man den politischen Akteuren vielleicht, dass dieselbe Partei, die den Mist verbrochen hat, auch an der Beendigung dabei war. In meinen Augen ein (mal wieder) glückliches Beispiel dafür, dass Deutschland Gerichte hat, die sich nicht der politischen Laune in Berlin beugen, denn ansonsten wäre das nicht ohne umfassende Diskussionen um die Abgeltungssteuer begraben worden und die wäre für Trader und auch Anleger mit Sicherheit unvorteilhaft verlaufen.
