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  • #1,121
  • Apr 3, 2007 8:11am Apr 3, 2007 8:11am
Quoting williamk
Howdy timaru69,

Great observation with the "4 out of 5" on the 30th but no I didn't take that trade because of 2 reason. The 1st reason is I don't trade the "4 out of 5" anymore. It work excellent on version 6.4 but not as well on version 7.0. The 2nd reason is I now use the method I posted about @ # 1101 on this thread.

As U can see from the chart I posted on the 30th the candle didn't break the Predicted High and the Predicted Short Term Diff is not above the Predicted Med Term Diff. On the 4/2 it meet all the requirements and I entered last nite and as of this post well over 140pips so far.
Hi Bill

Ah I see, I have it now.

Thanks

T
  • #1,122
  • Apr 4, 2007 2:06am Apr 4, 2007 2:06am
Quoting timaru69
Hi Bill

Ah I see, I have it now.

Thanks

T
Hi Bill

er , maybe I don't see it as well as I thought

Do you know if your new system worked on 6.4 as well as it does on 7.0.

I do not have 7.0 and was thinking of programming something in Excel to test rules in 6.4. Do you have your original results so I could compare outcomes?

Cheers

T
  • #1,123
  • Apr 4, 2007 2:10am Apr 4, 2007 2:10am
  •  vrama
  • | Joined Dec 2006 | Status: BE at right place@right time = LUCK | 210 Posts
Quoting timaru69
Hi Bill

er , maybe I don't see it as well as I thought

Do you know if your new system worked on 6.4 as well as it does on 7.0.

I do not have 7.0 and was thinking of programming something in Excel to test rules in 6.4. Do you have your original results so I could compare outcomes?

Cheers

T
Is this Vontage trading system Good? It costs too much? they dont even give any free trial etc.
Please explain. Thanks in advance.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
  • #1,124
  • Apr 4, 2007 7:27am Apr 4, 2007 7:27am
Quoting vrama
Is this Vontage trading system Good? It costs too much? they dont even give any free trial etc.
Please explain. Thanks in advance.
Take the time and read the thread. This question has been asked many times.
GOD IS NOT SHORT OF CASH
  • #1,125
  • Apr 4, 2007 8:00am Apr 4, 2007 8:00am
Hi vrama...........

Yours is a "loaded" question. Whose answer should you believe?

There are some of us here at FF who regularly use VP successfully and profitably. But there are also a few people who don't. Who can you trust? Swami S suggested reading this thread.......good idea! In addition, I suggest visiting this website to read about how others ARE using VP successfully. You will learn that there is more than one method or system a trader can use with this software to make money. Then YOU can decide if VP is worth the investment. HTH!

www.traderchat.com

PS.......... a free trial is pointless; like any trading method, it takes time to learn how to use VP effectively. A person does not learn how to drive an automobile in a short period of time; it's a "learning process" that really never ends (or it shouldn't!)

Quoting vrama
Is this Vontage trading system Good? It costs too much? they dont even give any free trial etc.
Please explain. Thanks in advance.
  • #1,126
  • Apr 4, 2007 9:20pm Apr 4, 2007 9:20pm
Hello all! First of all I am very excited to have found FF and these posts on VP in particular. I am part of a very small group (4 novice traders) who all use VP 7.0 now. Our most tenured member has been trading for about 18 months (not always with VP). I wanted to ask if many of you use VP for position trading.?.?
We currently use it for day trading, employing a system similar to the 4/5 rule I've seen described ( apparently it was recently rendered obsolete by its originator). We look for the neural index to match the PST and PMT differences (all positive or all negative/zero). We also look for there to be at least a 100 pip variance between the PHI and PLO. We then will subtract 50 pips from the Hi in and up trend, or add 50 to the low in a down trend. This then becomes our "predicted Hi or Low" and we trade using these parameters for our entry points and limits. We typically set our limits to capture 10-30 pips going in the appropriate direction. We do not use stops as to be able to "set it and forget it" as they say. The key is in managing your account (obviously not a foreign concept to experienced traders) in such a manner so that it can withstand a night or two worth of fluctuation. We use 1% of the account per trade and no more than 5 open trades at a time.
Of course there is the ocassional situation where the prediction is off and we have to decide between taking a loss, letting it ride untill it comes back, or we may do some hedging. Another helpful tool is choosing trades which will pay interest if we do have to leave it intraday.

Although this approach has proven to be consistent, heavily dependant on VP accuracy in predicting daily Hi/Los, I feel VP may be even more valuable when used for position trading. I mean how simple is it to enter when the lines cross and be patient untill they recross??? Am I missing something?

I'd greatly appreciate any input on either our current day trading strategy or the potential for using VP for position trading. Ultimately Id like to have one account for each. Thanks for reading, and I promise not to be so long in the future
  • #1,127
  • Apr 5, 2007 2:52pm Apr 5, 2007 2:52pm
Hello atlanta007 and welcome to FF...........(James Bond in Georgia?)

First......something you wrote REALLY concerns me, I hope it's a typo. You trade without stops? because you want to "set & forget"? If I didn't use stops, I would probably have a nervous breakdown waiting for some unforseen event to wipe out my account.

Otherwise, your trading plan sounds very solid! And yes, position trading is a very good way to use VP. There's a lot that can be said about this topic; but to save myself (and others) from posting it all here, I suggest you check out all the information HERE:

Quoting atlanta007
Hello all! First of all I am very excited to have found FF and these posts on VP in particular. I am part of a very small group (4 novice traders) who all use VP 7.0 now. Our most tenured member has been trading for about 18 months (not always with VP). I wanted to ask if many of you use VP for position trading.?.?
We currently use it for day trading, employing a system similar to the 4/5 rule I've seen described ( apparently it was recently rendered obsolete by its originator). We look for the neural index to match the PST and PMT differences (all positive or all negative/zero). We also look for there to be at least a 100 pip variance between the PHI and PLO. We then will subtract 50 pips from the Hi in and up trend, or add 50 to the low in a down trend. This then becomes our "predicted Hi or Low" and we trade using these parameters for our entry points and limits. We typically set our limits to capture 10-30 pips going in the appropriate direction. We do not use stops as to be able to "set it and forget it" as they say. The key is in managing your account (obviously not a foreign concept to experienced traders) in such a manner so that it can withstand a night or two worth of fluctuation. We use 1% of the account per trade and no more than 5 open trades at a time.
Of course there is the ocassional situation where the prediction is off and we have to decide between taking a loss, letting it ride untill it comes back, or we may do some hedging. Another helpful tool is choosing trades which will pay interest if we do have to leave it intraday.

Although this approach has proven to be consistent, heavily dependant on VP accuracy in predicting daily Hi/Los, I feel VP may be even more valuable when used for position trading. I mean how simple is it to enter when the lines cross and be patient untill they recross??? Am I missing something?

I'd greatly appreciate any input on either our current day trading strategy or the potential for using VP for position trading. Ultimately Id like to have one account for each. Thanks for reading, and I promise not to be so long in the future
  • #1,128
  • Apr 5, 2007 3:41pm Apr 5, 2007 3:41pm
Quoting williamk
Howdy timaru69,

Great observation with the "4 out of 5" on the 30th but no I didn't take that trade because of 2 reason. The 1st reason is I don't trade the "4 out of 5" anymore. It work excellent on version 6.4 but not as well on version 7.0. The 2nd reason is I now use the method I posted about @ # 1101 on this thread.

As U can see from the chart I posted on the 30th the candle didn't break the Predicted High and the Predicted Short Term Diff is not above the Predicted Med Term Diff. On the 4/2 it meet all the requirements and I entered last nite and as of this post well over 140pips so far.

Hi again Bill

Just to check if your new system works as well on 6.4?

Cheers

T
  • #1,129
  • Apr 5, 2007 7:07pm Apr 5, 2007 7:07pm
Quoting williamk
Sorry clicked Sumit before posting chart
Hi again Bill

Have compared GBPJPY from 6.4 to your trade entry signal on V 7.0

As you can see 6.4 did not give a trade entry on the 2nd April but on the 3rd of April, primarily due to Predicted Short Term Trend not above Predicted Long term Trend until the 3rd of April.

I have generated a smal XL file to determine long trade entry signals on V 6.4 and was wondering if you could confirm/deny what date VP 7.0 gave as an entry signal.

I am testing VP 6.4 signals back as far as the data will let me and will post results once completed.

The Buy signals for March were

6th
8th
12th
14th
19th


I think that you have a nice system here but I am wondering how VP 6.0 compares to VP 7.0 in terms of entry signals based on your criteria.

I will backtest profitability of VP 6.4 and post

Any help appreciated

Thanks

Andrew
Attached Image
  • #1,130
  • Apr 6, 2007 2:41pm Apr 6, 2007 2:41pm
Hi all

In relation to previous post I have completed work on Buy entries on GBP/JPY for last 500 days as tested on VP 6.4 using WilliamK new strategy

The trade criteria set are

Long entry when

Neural Index = 1
PTS > PTM (predictated short term trend and predictated medium term trend)
Actual High of the day must have gone through Predicted High for today i.e from previous night.

When all conditions are met then enter trade at next day open.

Exit trade conditions

If high greater than 100 pips from open then we would have got out with a 100 pip profit e.g open at 233.50, High was 235.25. Therefore there were a total of 175 pips between open and High so we would have taken our 100 pips.

If the 100 pip target was not reached then exit at close.

There is no stop loss in force during the day, only the price at the close.

Over the 23 months this method showed a 945 pip profit over 90 trades.

Off which 42% losers at avg of -24 pips and 58% winners at avg of 34 pips

Biggest consecutive drawdown was -580 pips

As we are dealing with daily price data then we cannot "manage" our trade so that we maximise the profits and minimise losses. The next step will be to review the intra day history for profit maximisation via trade management.

I will also attempt to review the daily price action for staying in a trending trade.


I have yet to complete gain/loss on short side.

Last interesting point

If I change the PTs vs PTM relationship to only take a trade when PTM is greater than the PTS then I almost double the number of pips over the 23 months to 1830.

with

Avg Loss of -34 pips on 43% Losing trades
Avg Win of 52 pips on 57% winning trades

What I would find really useful is if I could get the history file for VP 7.0 GBP/JPY data for last 500 records then I could compare horses with courses.

Any volunteers?

Comments welcome

Thanks

Andrew
  • #1,131
  • Apr 7, 2007 2:36pm Apr 7, 2007 2:36pm
Andrew

Here you go...
Attached File(s)
File Type: zip British Pound Japanese Yen Cash.zip   108 KB | 517 downloads
  • #1,132
  • Apr 12, 2007 1:39pm Apr 12, 2007 1:39pm
Quoting williamk
Howdy timaru69,

Great observation with the "4 out of 5" on the 30th but no I didn't take that trade because of 2 reason. The 1st reason is I don't trade the "4 out of 5" anymore. It work excellent on version 6.4 but not as well on version 7.0. The 2nd reason is I now use the method I posted about @ # 1101 on this thread.

As U can see from the chart I posted on the 30th the candle didn't break the Predicted High and the Predicted Short Term Diff is not above the Predicted Med Term Diff. On the 4/2 it meet all the requirements and I entered last nite and as of this post well over 140pips so far.

Hey Bill,

Just a few quick questions for you (again! ): you said that you no longer use the "4 out of 5" method, correct? So is it that you don't use version 6.4 anymore? I for one, still have access to version 6.4 as well as 7.0. And, if that's the case, are you only trading the 3 crosses that you mentioned (GBP/CHF, GBP/JPY, GBP/USD) using the method described in post #1078 for version 7.0? I thought I read (post #1090) that you still use the "4 out of 5" method for the USD/CHF pair & if that's the case, which version are you using when trading that pair with the "4 out of 5" method? Thanks for all your help & continued trading success...

Thanks,
Sean
  • #1,133
  • Apr 13, 2007 9:12pm Apr 13, 2007 9:12pm
Howdy SeanOC22,

Thats correct I am now using 7.0. and use another method that I found to be more effective than the "4 out of 5" method does on it.

Also with the UsdChf I use the new method. The reason it took me so long to post here is I seldom come here anymore the new hot spot for VP traders 6.4 or 7.0 is at this link:

http://www.traderchat.com/

I have gotten many new methods and ideas on VP then ever before at that site. There is such a great cross section of traders from Commodity, Forex and Stock traders all using VP. Nothing I have developed is original I just took something say a commodity trader was using and put it into my method and watch what the outcome was some worked some didn't.
Anyway come on over always looking for new blood.

Fellow Pip Hunter

Bill
"When there is no peril in the fight there is no glory in the triumph."
  • #1,134
  • Edited 4:08am Jun 26, 2007 2:10am | Edited 4:08am
Excellent information. Thank you.
  • #1,135
  • Jul 9, 2007 4:35pm Jul 9, 2007 4:35pm
Cant believe people actually pay $2000+ for moving average crosses
  • #1,136
  • Jul 9, 2007 6:51pm Jul 9, 2007 6:51pm
I think the price is $3900
  • #1,137
  • Jul 15, 2007 5:14pm Jul 15, 2007 5:14pm
x
  • #1,138
  • Jul 16, 2007 4:19pm Jul 16, 2007 4:19pm
Quoting mike43234
Cant believe people actually pay $2000+ for moving average crosses
If that's all Vantage Point was, no-one would buy it in spite of what xPiP posted about marketing. Their marketing is not that good!

A little time spent at TraderChat.com will educate the uninformed that many traders use VP successfully and profitably. Why not take a little time and check it out; there are a number of FF members who are glad we did!
  • #1,139
  • Jul 16, 2007 6:27pm Jul 16, 2007 6:27pm
all i know is that it is rated as "SCAM" at forexbastards.com, which I have found to be fairly reliable.

(But, I must admit that it is odd that Felix's services and preferred brokers are all 5 stars. LOL)
  • #1,140
  • Jul 16, 2007 8:01pm Jul 16, 2007 8:01pm
[quote=clockwork71;1496507]all i know is that it is rated as "SCAM" at forexbastards.com, which I have found to be fairly reliable.

I'm getting that feeling myself clockwork. Too many people on here too gushy about it. My gut feeling tells me they are involved in some way with Vantagepoint.
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