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Why I can't win

  • #21
  • Jul 2, 2007 12:36pm Jul 2, 2007 12:36pm
Money Management
Trade what you see, not what you think.
  • #22
  • Jul 3, 2007 12:05pm Jul 3, 2007 12:05pm
  •  dado26
  • | Joined Mar 2007 | Status: Plan your trade and trade your plan | 180 Posts
Quote
Has this guy got a bigger ego than me??

hahaha....oh no.....
Sometimes I really laught around here....

------------------
Plan your trade and trade your plan
  • #23
  • Edited 1:11pm Jul 3, 2007 12:42pm | Edited 1:11pm
Quoting traderjai_inhi
HAHA, Yes I think so. He is full of it, and I dont mean skills. Check his other posts, straight up silly. Id eat my hat if there were a live statement accompanying some of it.
We have discussed this before. If you have a $1 million account and you trade 1 standard lot at a time you never have to lose a trade. If you have a $100k account and trade 1 mini lot you never have to lose a trade. If you have a $10k and trade 1 micro lot at a time you never have to lose a trade. Unless you plan on being drawn down tens of thousands of pips without winning ... this can be done. Sure the % profit in the end may be less than what other people who only win 70% gain ... but it is a way to remain in the game for as long as you want. He has said before that he will trade 40 years from now ... if he trades like this he certainly will.

I dont know if he trade like this with the ratios and such, that is just a way you can trade.
The market is my nation. Traders, my family. Hello, brothers and sisters!
  • #24
  • Jul 3, 2007 9:49pm Jul 3, 2007 9:49pm
Quoting the_wizard
Why Can't I Win?
Wiz
Because you are trying too hard to play Multiple Levels above your skill.
Play what you Know. Not what you want to know.
& GL
  • #25
  • Jul 3, 2007 10:38pm Jul 3, 2007 10:38pm
Quoting StockKJay
We have discussed this before. If you have a $1 million account and you trade 1 standard lot at a time you never have to lose a trade. If you have a $100k account and trade 1 mini lot you never have to lose a trade. If you have a $10k and trade 1 micro lot at a time you never have to lose a trade. Unless you plan on being drawn down tens of thousands of pips without winning ... this can be done. Sure the % profit in the end may be less than what other people who only win 70% gain ... but it is a way to remain in the game for as long as you want. He has said before that he will trade 40 years from now ... if he trades like this he certainly will.

I dont know if he trade like this with the ratios and such, that is just a way you can trade.
Oh come on now. The object in trading is to make money. Not avoid at all costs having a losing trade or two. As one author pointed out in Baseball a hitter can have a .300 batting average (or 3 hits per 10 at bats) and get paid $millions.

+ + +

And for the spelling-impaired it is LOSING. There is no double OO in losing, in lose or loss. Does no good, I am sure there will be more posts right in this subject with the word spelled the double way.

  • #26
  • Jul 3, 2007 11:03pm Jul 3, 2007 11:03pm
Quoting SunTrader
Oh come on now. The object in trading is to make money. Not avoid at all costs having a losing trade or two. As one author pointed out in Baseball a hitter can have a .300 batting average (or 3 hits per 10 at bats) and get paid $millions.

+ + +

And for the spelling-impaired it is LOSING. There is no double OO in losing, in lose or loss. Does no good, I am sure there will be more posts right in this subject with the word spelled the double way.


Suntrader,

I have to say you could be wrong. If you are down 20 pips and close out, it's called losing. If you are down 250 pips, and hanging on, waiting for it to break even, you are loosing. lol. The double O is for effect.

  • #27
  • Jul 3, 2007 11:07pm Jul 3, 2007 11:07pm
Quoting the_wizard
Has this guy got a bigger ego than me??
He's a troll, needs a ban I think.
  • #28
  • Jul 3, 2007 11:10pm Jul 3, 2007 11:10pm
Quoting clockwork71
Suntrader,

I have to say you could be wrong. If you are down 20 pips and close out, it's called losing. If you are down 250 pips, and hanging on, waiting for it to break even, you are loosing. lol. The double O is for effect.

Judging from your post it's quite clear that you don't understand what SunTrader means.
I couldn't trade without knowing exactly where I want to get out.
  • #29
  • Jul 4, 2007 2:38am Jul 4, 2007 2:38am
Quoting SunTrader
Oh come on now. The object in trading is to make money. Not avoid at all costs having a losing trade or two. As one author pointed out in Baseball a hitter can have a .300 batting average (or 3 hits per 10 at bats) and get paid $millions.

+ + +

And for the spelling-impaired it is LOSING. There is no double OO in losing, in lose or loss. Does no good, I am sure there will be more posts right in this subject with the word spelled the double way.

Well, I of course agree with you ST. Some I am sure feel a whole lot more comfortable trading interest positive with very small positions, this so they know they wont lose. Although, in the 5 or more years they may get stuck in a losing trade, the interest may change greatly. They may win very slowly, I personally don't want to be trading when I am 65, but with a good system and the whips that will hit TP points will eventually see solid returns. I suspect? By the time I would actually become very profitable, I do believe I would already be retiring from my day job with full pension ... so what would be the point?

Anyone have a million dollars for me so I can use standard lots? It would however take me about 10 years to figure out if it actually works as I imagine it would
The market is my nation. Traders, my family. Hello, brothers and sisters!
  • #30
  • Jul 4, 2007 2:51am Jul 4, 2007 2:51am
Quoting the_wizard
Has this guy got a bigger ego than me??

yes i have a bigger ego than you and probably a bigger account too.....but dont let that put u off.....lol
  • #31
  • Jul 4, 2007 2:53am Jul 4, 2007 2:53am
Quoting traderjai_inhi
HAHA, Yes I think so. He is full of it, and I dont mean skills. Check his other posts, straight up silly. Id eat my hat if there were a live statement accompanying some of it.
i would love to see u eat ur hat....send me a PM then i show u my live account.....
  • #32
  • Jul 4, 2007 2:56am Jul 4, 2007 2:56am
Quoting StockKJay
We have discussed this before. If you have a $1 million account and you trade 1 standard lot at a time you never have to lose a trade. If you have a $100k account and trade 1 mini lot you never have to lose a trade. If you have a $10k and trade 1 micro lot at a time you never have to lose a trade. Unless you plan on being drawn down tens of thousands of pips without winning ... this can be done. Sure the % profit in the end may be less than what other people who only win 70% gain ... but it is a way to remain in the game for as long as you want. He has said before that he will trade 40 years from now ... if he trades like this he certainly will.

I dont know if he trade like this with the ratios and such, that is just a way you can trade.
the first wise man i have met on this forum. I applaud you!!!!
  • #33
  • Jul 4, 2007 2:58am Jul 4, 2007 2:58am
i concur, this can be done
  • #34
  • Jul 4, 2007 8:12am Jul 4, 2007 8:12am
Quoting iandekoker
the first wise man i have met on this forum. I applaud you!!!!
Well, I don't mind it when I see people disagree with another persons approach, though I do find it a bit annoying when I see people saying that things CANT be done. I think a good 70% trader will end up at the same place as a trader that wins 100%, perhaps even better. Though, I suppose this also depends. While the main trend is alive, the person that doesn't set SLs will certainly do better because he will never have that loss, though when the major reversal comes and there is -4000 pip float or something of the sort, the 70% trader will pull ahead more likely than not. Back to the belief that people are full of it when they say they don't lose, they aren't for certain. Technically, if a trader is down even 5000 pips on a position, so long as he doesn't close it isn't a loss. So why do people argue with the idea that one doesn't lose? That person though he has a 5000 pip drawdown on a trade may have matched or exceeded that with other trades in the trend direction.

I do think people that lose too often or fear losing more than anything should take notice. Trade with the trend and trade within the realm of possible losses you will face. If you only have $1,500, trade .05c/pip. There is no shame in doing that. Don't try and use that $1,500 to scalp and turn it into $100,000 in 3 years ... you will fail if you try to do that.
The market is my nation. Traders, my family. Hello, brothers and sisters!
  • #35
  • Jul 4, 2007 12:12pm Jul 4, 2007 12:12pm
Ego isn't the biggest thing he has, its his imagination.
  • #36
  • Jul 4, 2007 12:48pm Jul 4, 2007 12:48pm
If a person only end his trade after it's in the profit, he may not lose a trade but he may pay for the interest until his trade turns into profit.

I just can't imagine what he would be thinking if he short GBP/JPY in year 2000. 9000+ pips down, paying tons in interest and only god knows when the trade will turn positive.
  • #37
  • Jul 4, 2007 12:53pm Jul 4, 2007 12:53pm
Quoting zobo
If a person only end his trade after it's in the profit, he may not lose a trade but he may pay for the interest until his trade turns into profit.

I just can't imagine what he would be thinking if he short GBP/JPY in year 2000. 9000+ pips down, paying tons in interest and only god knows when the trade will turn positive.
I myself would never attempt something such as this. I really wouldn't like holding huge drawdowns, I would rather just exit and forget about it. Though whatever works I suppose?
The market is my nation. Traders, my family. Hello, brothers and sisters!
  • #38
  • Jul 4, 2007 12:55pm Jul 4, 2007 12:55pm
Quoting StockKJay
Well, I don't mind it when I see people disagree with another persons approach, though I do find it a bit annoying when I see people saying that things CANT be done. I think a good 70% trader will end up at the same place as a trader that wins 100%, perhaps even better. Though, I suppose this also depends. While the main trend is alive, the person that doesn't set SLs will certainly do better because he will never have that loss, though when the major reversal comes and there is -4000 pip float or something of the sort, the 70% trader will pull ahead more likely than not. Back to the belief that people are full of it when they say they don't lose, they aren't for certain. Technically, if a trader is down even 5000 pips on a position, so long as he doesn't close it isn't a loss. So why do people argue with the idea that one doesn't lose? That person though he has a 5000 pip drawdown on a trade may have matched or exceeded that with other trades in the trend direction.

I do think people that lose too often or fear losing more than anything should take notice. Trade with the trend and trade within the realm of possible losses you will face. If you only have $1,500, trade .05c/pip. There is no shame in doing that. Don't try and use that $1,500 to scalp and turn it into $100,000 in 3 years ... you will fail if you try to do that.
you have a good head on your shoulders and will make a good living out of forex if u stick to ur guns
  • #39
  • Edited 5:01pm Jul 4, 2007 1:16pm | Edited 5:01pm
Quoting zobo
If a person only end his trade after it's in the profit, he may not lose a trade but he may pay for the interest until his trade turns into profit.

I just can't imagine what he would be thinking if he short GBP/JPY in year 2000. 9000+ pips down, paying tons in interest and only god knows when the trade will turn positive.
Fine. Perhaps profiting consistently without ever taking a loss CAN be done but I firmly believe the trader that manages it is operating in the realm of luck.

Zobo is completely right. There are hundreds of examples where you could be still sitting positioned against a trend not only paying interest but also being thousands of pips down.

And there are plenty of examples where the market has NEVER come back to a certain point. Look at Gold. In April 2003 it looks good for a short trade based on a break low. The market rallied and it's never looked back. Are you telling me it will one day come back to $300? And more importantly, even if it does, is it worth tying up your capital by waiting?

Whether this guy is lucky I can't comment but I've met a lot of traders who have told me they don't take losers.

And they don't trade anymore. Simple as that.
  • #40
  • Jul 4, 2007 1:32pm Jul 4, 2007 1:32pm
Quoting the_wizard

And there are plenty of examples where the market has NEVER come back to a certain point. .
That is exactly right. So what is the point to hold that loss? Sure if you trade light enough you can survive, you never have to take a loss ... though in the end will it be more profitable than a 70% system or even well managed 50% systems etc? Only time could really tell. One would have to trade this way long enough to go through one or two massive trends, perhaps 10 - 20 years or more before you could actually find out if it is more profitable or even more reasonable than a system that takes several losses a month.

There is a signal service out there (wont name it) that uses the drawdowns to their advantage. They simply do not close horrible trades and only close profitable ones. This gives very good results to many of their traders, 80% win rates, big pip gains ... yet they have -3000 pip drawdowns that they haven't closed. Again, will this work out well in the longterm ...? The key really is still good trading. If you are down -3000 on a position, did you make 4000, 5000 on good trades during that time? If so, what you are doing is working well, remember, that -3000 is a position that was smaller than the ones currently being taken (assumed, not fact). Perhaps a position is even considered as "average", which would mean that negative position could get smaller until it is a positive position? Thus it would be considered as one large continuation of a trade and would not be considered a loss?

I have no clue how long Iandekoker (spelling?) has been trading, though I am under the assumption that he has yet to have -9000 pip drawdowns, perhaps once this occurs he will decide to start exiting trades? Again, this drawdown does not appeal to me. Though I still agree with the sound money management, discipline and trend following that certainly has to be applied to trade this way. When the great unwinding occurs on the JPY pairs, perhaps he will be around to report how he trades them.
The market is my nation. Traders, my family. Hello, brothers and sisters!
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