Forex Profit... Im sorry but... (10% per month?) | Page 2 | Forex Factory

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10% Profit Per Month 16 replies

Sorry. But you all need it. 47 replies

Sorry to disturb, but iam really confuse 20 replies

Please ignore this one....sorry 1 reply

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Forex Profit... Im sorry but... (10% per month?)

  • #21
  • Jul 3, 2007 12:37pm Jul 3, 2007 12:37pm
I don`t get it with these low percentages.
If you had a 1 000,000 to invest you may be able to live off 5% (50,000 per year) return.
Most of us don`t have that.
If I wanted 2 or 4 % gains a month I wouldn`t even be trading myself.
Shooting for 25 % a year would be a pathetic return for years of study.
I Know a couple who have been earning 2.25% per month (26% a year) for 5 years through a managed fx investment.
I agree that greed is sometimes a killer and trying to lower the expectations of new traders is not nessesarily a bad thing, but some well intentioned people go overboard.
Say you started trading with a 10,000.00 account and used good money management. Risking no more than 3% max of your account for any position or combo of positions at one time.
Max loss per day at 3%. would give you 30 pips of wiggle room per day.
Assuming that you have a proven method which gives you 70 % wins over losses, 10 pips per day on average should not be difficult.
10 pips a day x 20 days in a month is 200 pips profit.
At 10.00 per pip that is 2,000.00. This equals 20% return a month.
I think one is either ready to trade live or not ready.
I will never aim for a lousy few % gain per Month/year because of what I read from a few ultra conservatives out there. I get that from my 70 year old mother who thinks 5% a year is great..
  • #22
  • Jul 3, 2007 12:53pm Jul 3, 2007 12:53pm
Quoting Gwan
Merlin did you read what i said about leverage. Multi Million Dolar ammounts cannot be leveraged and thats the reason the biggest investors dont make 10 percent.
ok forget multi-billion dollar hedgefunds then. but we can still compare the results to the CTA's (trading only a few 100K) at autumngold.com.
Relax and be happy.
  • #23
  • Jul 3, 2007 12:56pm Jul 3, 2007 12:56pm
Quoting highway3000
If 10% can't be achieved, better put your money on a certain bond etc. That could better net you 12% or more with better luck. Why waste one's time on trading ?
12% per month on a bond? LOL.

you'd be lucky to get 12% per year on a bond, and even then, it would be a junk bond that does carry significant risk.
Relax and be happy.
  • #24
  • Jul 3, 2007 1:01pm Jul 3, 2007 1:01pm
Quoting merlin
12% per month on a bond? LOL.

you'd be lucky to get 12% per year on a bond, and even then, it would be a junk bond that does carry significant risk.
i believe he was referring to 12% for the year

As for 10% a month, it is doable, sure you aren't going to have 10% a month every month, and your % will fluctuate, but on Avg(Darkstar sure did way more then this). It isn't the month that matters, gotta look at your trading in at least quarters.
  • #25
  • Jul 3, 2007 1:05pm Jul 3, 2007 1:05pm
Quoting Warper
And the best part... he says that lucky are the ones who can do it in one year.
i agree with this. a year long run of 10% months is an incredible feat, and takes some luck.

there are plenty of public trading records out there, if this were easily achievable we would see it all over. but show me a single public trading record of 10% months for two or three years. id be amazed to see one. ive heard about a few of them in market wizards, but never actually saw the record.
Relax and be happy.
  • #26
  • Jul 3, 2007 1:08pm Jul 3, 2007 1:08pm
Quoting mbqb11
It isn't the month that matters, gotta look at your trading in at least quarters.
amen
Relax and be happy.
  • #27
  • Jul 3, 2007 1:08pm Jul 3, 2007 1:08pm
Ok boys and girls, everybody go back to their seats and make some money ^_^

I think this discussion has no end, because everyone has their own systems, money management and risk control modules on their desk (hopefully) and know what he/she can do with their money.

Seriously, I could care less if someone out there makes 400% return per year, there is enough money for everyone at the table.

It's all about the numbers anyway...
  • #28
  • Jul 3, 2007 1:11pm Jul 3, 2007 1:11pm
Quoting Warper
PS: This guy is one of that forum Gurus that claim to be trading for over 13 years. I guess that with that 10 percent year he has only 3 times the beggining ammount. Ridiculous.
whoever this "guru" is, you should probably listen to him, because he is showing quite a bit of wisdom with these statments. one way i can quickly determine a trader's experience is by looking at their expectations. novice traders tend to have unrealistic expectations, while the vets, who have been through the war, have a realistic outlook on trading profits. another telltale sign of a novice...they shoot for X% per day/month/week. thats just not how trading works, its not that steady. shooting for a quarterly % goal is ambitious enough!

there is nothing wrong with lofty goals, trading success in itself is a lofty goal. but it helps to have a realistic perspective on the game.
Relax and be happy.
  • #29
  • Edited 1:20pm Jul 3, 2007 1:17pm | Edited 1:20pm
Quoting merlin
one way i can quickly determine a trader's experience is by looking at their expectations. novice traders tend to have unrealistic expectations, while the vets, who have been through the war, have a realistic outlook on trading profits.
There is even a name for this:

From Wikipedia:

The Dunning-Kruger effect is the phenomenon whereby people who have little knowledge systematically think that they know more than others who have much more knowledge.

Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.

Meanwhile, people with true knowledge tended to underestimate their competence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect
  • #30
  • Jul 3, 2007 1:22pm Jul 3, 2007 1:22pm
brilliant! now i have a word for it!

this Dunning-Kruger effect is rampant in trading!!
Relax and be happy.
  • #31
  • Edited 2:06pm Jul 3, 2007 1:26pm | Edited 2:06pm
In my business circle it is understood that when we talk about interest on bonds or banking interest, it is per year. Tell me a banking interest or bonds that talk to you by month. My family has been dealing with UBS for near 80 years. I know what percentages we got Merlin. My family was served by the chief investment Director of UBS for decades. My older generation was Chief CEO of Baubedarf AG - now fused with the Germans.
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  • #32
  • Jul 3, 2007 1:27pm Jul 3, 2007 1:27pm
Merlin , are you saying that averaging 10 pips a day profit (full lots trading), using a 10,000.00 account is a rare achievement?
(this would equate to 10% per month).
  • #33
  • Jul 3, 2007 1:32pm Jul 3, 2007 1:32pm
I was refering to this part of the first post
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  • #34
  • Edited 1:43pm Jul 3, 2007 1:32pm | Edited 1:43pm
Quoting highway3000
In my business circle it is understood that when we talk about interest on bonds or banking interest, it is per year. Tell me a banking interest or bonds that talk to you by month. My family has been dealing with UBS for near 80 years. I know what percentages we got Merlin. My family was served by the chief investment Director of UBS for decades. My older generation was Chief CEO of Baubedaf AG - now fused with the Germans.
LOL sorry man i thought you were talking about per month, since this thread is about 10% per month, and you made the comparison with the bond. oops!
Quoting highway3000
I was refering to this part of the first post
ah i see now duh!!

10% is still a junk bond though
Relax and be happy.
  • #35
  • Jul 3, 2007 1:35pm Jul 3, 2007 1:35pm
Quoting randomlight
Merlin , are you saying that averaging 10 pips a day profit (full lots trading), using a 10,000.00 account is a rare achievement?
(this would equate to 10% per month).
if you could do that for a year straight, yes. however, pips and % are two totally different animals. pips are fairly insignificant, position size makes them irrelevent.
Relax and be happy.
  • #36
  • Jul 3, 2007 1:42pm Jul 3, 2007 1:42pm
[
Quote
quote=marejp;1484593]There is even a name for this:

From Wikipedia:

The Dunning-Kruger effect is the phenomenon whereby people who have little knowledge systematically think that they know more than others who have much more knowledge.

Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.

Meanwhile, people with true knowledge tended to underestimate their competence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect[/quote]




This should be stickied.
  • #37
  • Jul 3, 2007 2:09pm Jul 3, 2007 2:09pm
Quoting merlin
if you could do that for a year straight, yes. however, pips and % are two totally different animals. pips are fairly insignificant, position size makes them irrelevent.
I guess I am viewing this wrong then, because I always thought that position size was what was irrelevent .
It seems to me that you would either have a system that shows a profit in pips at the end of the month/year, or dosn`t.
Sizing would only be a matter of correct money management .
However I don`t like to sound too sure because I am not a proven full time trader yet.
I will soon be trading full time though and will let anyone who is interested know if I do find 10 pips a day a real challenge.
  • #38
  • Jul 3, 2007 2:15pm Jul 3, 2007 2:15pm
Quoting randomlight
I guess I am viewing this wrong then, because I always thought that position size was what was irrelevent .
It seems to me that you would either have a system that shows a profit in pips at the end of the month/year, or dosn`t.
Sizing would only be a matter of correct money management .
However I don`t like to sound too sure because I am not a proven full time trader yet.
I don`t like giving advice like one and I don`t much value strong opinionated advice coming from people who are not trading full time.(please be sure, this is not aimed at anyone here)
I will soon be trading full time though and will let anyone who is interested know if I do find 10 pips a day a real challenge.
for this topic, about pips are not what matters try this thread...

http://forexfactory.com/showthread.p...light=pips+are

and this

http://forexfactory.com/showthread.p...ips+are+counts


you can show zero pips at year end and still make money.

best,
Mike
  • #39
  • Jul 3, 2007 2:55pm Jul 3, 2007 2:55pm
Quoting Warper
I have to know the general opinion around here.

There is one trader here who firmly believes that its IMPOSSIBLE to make 10 percent month on forex.

And the best part... he says that lucky are the ones who can do it in one year.

He stated that, with 10 percent, soon a trader would own the world, but i tried to explain that at some point your money cant be leveraged so eventualy you will get less percentage despite continuing to make a lot.

What i mean is that.... Ok its not possible to win 10 percent forever, but its possible to win 10 percent for many years especially if you start with few, and you can do it as long as your money can be leveraged with the same margin it was at the beggining.

So... im not saying that its possible to make 700000000000000000 dolars because brokers CANT leverage that much.

If we invest without leverage we see that currencies have tiny variations, but hey, thats why leverage even lower ones are around.

PS: This guy is one of that forum Gurus that claim to be trading for over 13 years. I guess that with that 10 percent year he has only 3 times the beggining ammount. Ridiculous.

What do you all have to say?
you will soon learn that on FF some people are out to tell everyone else that they are gonna fail or not make money.....but do what i do...stack up the pips and make the 10% per month while reading their posts.....or even better....show them what they cannot and will not accomplish....lol
  • #40
  • Jul 3, 2007 3:26pm Jul 3, 2007 3:26pm
mbqb11 ,I took this from one of the links you suggested.

" if someone makes 1000 pips a year then he is clearly a better trader than someone who makes 500 pips. I am not interested in lot size ."

As I said I took this from another post I did not write it but with all due respect we can play with wording all we want .
In the end I believe it`s all about how good one is at pulling pips out of the market.Attach what value you want to them ,but thats only money management. If you can`t bring in the pips the amount you put on your pips dosn`t matter much except to your failing bottom line.
No offence intended just my 2 cents.
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