What MA is most similar to EMA, if not recursive? | Forex Factory

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What MA is most similar to EMA, if not recursive?

  • #1
  • First Post: Mar 30, 2024 9:00pm Mar 30, 2024 9:00pm
In some apps, indicators don't calculate from the very beginning, in order to save resources they begin somewhere earlier than screen candles. So if user zooms out and screen contains more candles, indicators will re-calculate, again still not from the very beginning. In such case, recursive indicator, like EMA, value varies.

It's hard to fight this mechanism.? so I'm looking for an EMA substitute, as close as possible, which does not use recursion like EMA.

Please give me a hand?
  • #2
  • Mar 30, 2024 9:05pm Mar 30, 2024 9:05pm
What? Why would an EMA need to calculate from the beginning when it is an average of the last 10 bars?

Please give an example if I have understood this wrong?

Even 200 EMA should not be a problem, maybe recursive is too big word for me?

Cheers.
It takes a lot for me to IGNORE you, but you can try.
  • #3
  • Mar 30, 2024 9:11pm Mar 30, 2024 9:11pm
Quoting Erebus
What? Why would an EMA need to calculate from the beginning when it is an average of the last 10 bars? Please give an example if I have understood this wrong? Even 200 EMA should not be a problem, maybe recursive is too big word for me? Cheers.
Thank you for your help. But how to explain, when user zooms out, indicator will change value? I also did not some simplified test like "close[0]" (not like MT4, it's the oldest candle) showing it's not calcing from beginning and varies when zooming out.

In the same apps, MA works fine, EMA does not.
  • #4
  • Edited 9:34pm Mar 30, 2024 9:23pm | Edited 9:34pm
Quoting Erebus
What? Why would an EMA need to calculate from the beginning when it is an average of the last 10 bars? Please give an example if I have understood this wrong? Even 200 EMA should not be a problem, maybe recursive is too big word for me? Cheers.
With your instruction... I may be wrong:
for a symbol with 1200 candles. with EMA: 20, 150, 260, 600.
if screen has 170 candles, and I zoom out, now it's 250 candles, and EMA 150,260,600 vary. Only EMA20 does not change.

For what I'm understanding now, EMA20 is changing too, just too tiny.

Is there any other explanation instead of recursion?
  • #5
  • Mar 30, 2024 11:30pm Mar 30, 2024 11:30pm
Quoting Joshatt
{quote} With your instruction... I may be wrong: for a symbol with 1200 candles. with EMA: 20, 150, 260, 600. if screen has 170 candles, and I zoom out, now it's 250 candles, and EMA 150,260,600 vary. Only EMA20 does not change. For what I'm understanding now, EMA20 is changing too, just too tiny. Is there any other explanation instead of recursion?
No matter the MA you put on your chart or the zoom you're switching, the only recalculation is within the current candle. The whole MA history is with definitive values.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #6
  • Mar 31, 2024 12:23am Mar 31, 2024 12:23am
Quoting Joshatt
In some apps, indicators don't calculate from the very beginning, in order to save resources they begin somewhere earlier than screen candles. So if user zooms out and screen contains more candles, indicators will re-calculate, again still not from the very beginning. In such case, recursive indicator, like EMA, value varies. It's hard to fight this mechanism.? so I'm looking for an EMA substitute, as close as possible, which does not use recursion like EMA. Please give me a hand?
You can apply a script that will auto download specific number of candles so the indicator will draw correctly, but if the indicator code is calculating the average based on only appeared candles then you should find another indicator that based on candles history.
  • #7
  • Mar 31, 2024 1:20am Mar 31, 2024 1:20am
Quoting FerruFx
{quote} No matter the MA you put on your chart or the zoom you're switching, the only recalculation is within the current candle. The whole MA history is with definitive values.
Hey FerruFx, I think he was referring to other charting applications. Such as those available on phones maybe? but you know, perhaps there is something to it for EMA calcs, where the displayed history of the EMA is not the same or as defined as we would like to think. Why? well if we look under the hood and see how it works, we will find that it starts (or can start) using an SMA... but it may not always be the case. Correct me if I am wrong, yet I think the EMA on buffer function in MT4 just uses first buffer value to start and not an SMA... so if one made their own array (list of numbers) and used that function, they would get a slightly different average... but all depending on period used...

Here is an example; EMA's of period 10... EMA A, starting from 11th position using previous 10 values to get a starting SMA and EMA B, same thing, but delayed by further 10 values...
There seems to be a slight difference, more significant initially.. yet, as more values come in, that difference diminishes.
In the case that SMA is not used, this difference will likely be much larger and take longer to diminish and the value get closer to a "true" EMA...

Anyways, the EMA is a tool and up to one self on how it is used... If one is using the tool to such precision, where such differences are significant enough to interfere with the use... then best not to use such "Apps" that do not support that precision. No need to fight any calc mechanisms or look for replacements... ha, and who know if the charting platform (also a tool) will be able to correctly calculate your "replacement EMA" too... or maybe the closest replacement simply is an SMA.

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  • #8
  • Last Post: Mar 31, 2024 8:39pm Mar 31, 2024 8:39pm
Quoting tzamo
{quote} Hey FerruFx, I think he was referring to other charting applications. Such as those available on phones maybe? but you know, perhaps there is something to it for EMA calcs, where the displayed history of the EMA is not the same or as defined as we would like to think. Why? well if we look under the hood and see how it works, we will find that it starts (or can start) using an SMA... but it may not always be the case. Correct me if I am wrong, yet I think the EMA on buffer function in MT4 just uses first buffer value to start and not an SMA......
Thanks for detailed answer. In my case the difference is noticable: as shown in the figure, MA4(610) of last candle is 2389, if I zoom out 3 steps, MA4 will be 2149, which will be at the yellow position, that's a different S&R info. I think in your experiment it's not noticable because all data are in 185x to 186x range, not a volatile market.
Right now I'm trying to link this market to MT4 or TradingView.
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