Nine square? Time cycles? Trading with Math? | Forex Factory

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Nine square? Time cycles? Trading with Math?

  • #1
  • First Post: Feb 22, 2024 12:57pm Feb 22, 2024 12:57pm
Hi traders,
It's been a long time since I last posted in this community. This time, however, I have a fairly controversial topic that I'd like to address, and I hope for your assistance.
As I continuously search for methods to enable me to trade in this market despite being visually impaired, I have always hoped to find some mathematical approaches where I can review historical data and derive trading methods without relying on charts or visual interactions.
I have often asked others about this, and they have all told me that it is impossible. They insist that I need to understand price actions, patterns, and all these technical tools to trade successfully. However, two weeks ago, I heard about W.D. Gann and his mathematical approaches, such as the Nine Square and time cycles. Yet, every discussion I encounter on this topic immediately delves into charts, drawing tools, and YouTube videos without explaining the mechanisms behind these ideas. I have a feeling that if someone could explain the logic behind these concepts in words, I could apply them manually without the need for these tools.
So, I seek your help here. Please explain to me what the Nine Square is and how it is used in trading. Additionally, I am interested in learning about time cycles and their rules. If there are other methods similar to these, I would appreciate the opportunity to experiment with them.
I hope you will bear with me as I bring up a controversial topic here. My rationale is that if these methods do not work, it is still worthwhile to explore them since I am unable to trade like sighted individuals.
Thank you in advance for your help.
  • #2
  • Feb 24, 2024 10:44am Feb 24, 2024 10:44am
I found on the Internet a guy talking about some equations regarding the nine square. It was to understand. But I hope your knowledge and input regarding this
  • #3
  • Feb 24, 2024 1:26pm Feb 24, 2024 1:26pm
Quoting aalaarajy
So, I seek your help here. Please explain to me what the Nine Square is and how it is used in trading.
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Sure My friend I can help you. Nine Square is purest bullshit and has nothing in common with trading. Don't waste you time. It is the same shit like drawing tools and free indicators.

No Need to thank me
Observer effect
  • #4
  • Feb 24, 2024 11:11pm Feb 24, 2024 11:11pm
Quoting aalaarajy
Hi traders, It's been a long time since I last posted in this community. This time, however, I have a fairly controversial topic that I'd like to address, and I hope for your assistance. As I continuously search for methods to enable me to trade in this market despite being visually impaired, I have always hoped to find some mathematical approaches where I can review historical data and derive trading methods without relying on charts or visual interactions. I have often asked others about this, and they have all told me that it is impossible. They...

you have to realize GANN and ELLIOT worked a 100 years ago so all their calculations were done on DAILY charts..they sat home home and used a pencil and graph paper to hand draw charts...when they had enough money they might buy charts from a professional service but they still had to update the daily chart themselves with a pencil and the previous days stock prices from the newspapers yes, stockprices used to be printed in newspapers

their systems may not translate well to intraday trading

thats why there so many people trying to learn ewave and never succeeding because they use the wrong timeframes LOL
short trump and go long the deepstate
  • #5
  • Feb 26, 2024 6:51am Feb 26, 2024 6:51am
[quote=Zebi;14768665]{

Well, but how does they trade? Hope something not involve drawing and visual interaction? Any Mathemathical ideas.
  • #6
  • Feb 26, 2024 6:55am Feb 26, 2024 6:55am
Also, I want to understand the ideas and logics behind those aspects. You know, just to have some reference points and not just trade randomly. And seriously, I will just understand the math behind them. Because I feel that there are some equations I can deal with, not just visual charts, patterns, indicators, and lines, and so on.
  • #7
  • Feb 26, 2024 7:01am Feb 26, 2024 7:01am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} {image}Sure My friend I can help you. Nine Square is purest bullshit and has nothing in common with trading. Don't waste you time. It is the same shit like drawing tools and free indicators. No Need to thank me
Thanks, so it is just as I have thought since if it was a real game changer you will have found all the world trading those ideas and all is rich and happyness have filled the world.
But you know: I want to understand them despite of that. Not only the square of nine. But also the other ideas to Gann also. I want some one that understand those deeply and like to share his knowledge with me.
Hope to find here some one.
  • #8
  • Feb 26, 2024 7:50am Feb 26, 2024 7:50am
Quoting aalaarajy
{quote} Thanks, so it is just as I have thought since if it was a real game changer you will have found all the world trading those ideas and all is rich and happyness have filled the world. But you know: I want to understand them despite of that. Not only the square of nine. But also the other ideas to Gann also. I want some one that understand those deeply and like to share his knowledge with me. Hope to find here some one.
it is a game changer but not for common traders, fund managers and long term traders are enjoying the rich and happiness of it.

square of nine is a natural cycles of numbers or a calculator for cycles, not for daytraders, for example, current cycle for GBPUSD is 4800 pips in size, what daytrader will trade that ? daytraders are scalping for 20-40 pips not 4800 pips
"the public is not yet ready for it" W.D. GANN
  • #9
  • Feb 26, 2024 8:08am Feb 26, 2024 8:08am
Quoting Kwt4x
{quote} it is a game changer but not for common traders, fund managers and long term traders are enjoying the rich and happiness of it. square of nine is a natural cycles of numbers or a calculator for cycles, not for daytraders, for example, current cycle for GBPUSD is 4800 pips in size, what daytrader will trade that ? daytraders are scalping for 20-40 pips not 4800 pips
Well, if fundmanagers and big players in the Market enjoy it, this is not a new news. They have so big capitals they can move the Market as they wish when they know that there are no other big fish that is fishing with them. Only small fish like us. They just move the market and burn us out.

I seek for a method where I can stay over and not under the water.
And I like to understand Ganns idea in the hope of creating a Math forex strategy that I can rely on. And I am not a day trader. I always sit in front of investing.coms daily or weekly historical data in the hope of catching some repeating patterns that I can rely on. Sometimes I sit down and arrange the highs and lows and try to find something. Sometimes I play with the Closing prices. All this done manually in windows build in Wordpad.
So when I heard of Ganns and the equations for nine square and the price cycles and time cycles I began to have some hopes despite of my brain and logic tells me that it is not logic that he could have something I can use.
I hope you or others here in the community that can guide me further.
  • #10
  • Feb 26, 2024 8:14am Feb 26, 2024 8:14am
For examples when I found a video in Youtube that tells that the Nine square says that the prices move in cycles circulating about the number nine, and the equation that rely to this is to find any bottoms low or tops high, and then find the square root of it and then plus this with 2 if you will find a complete price cycle and just 1 for a half cycle and 0.5 for a quarter of a cycle, and then multiply that with it self you will find the next support or resistance, I began to dance mentally and grab the historical data and wordpad and begun my manual backtesting.

So, like these logics I want to find about Ganns work. Are there?
  • #11
  • Feb 26, 2024 8:26am Feb 26, 2024 8:26am
Quoting aalaarajy
{quote} Well, if fundmanagers and big players in the Market enjoy it, this is not a new news. They have so big capitals they can move the Market as they wish when they know that there are no other big fish that is fishing with them. Only small fish like us. They just move the market and burn us out. I seek for a method where I can stay over and not under the water. And I like to understand Ganns idea in the hope of creating a Math forex strategy that I can rely on. And I am not a day trader. I always sit in front of investing.coms daily or weekly...
I don't think anyone can help you if you think countries economy data can be manipulated by "big fish", forex is not the stock market my friend.

if you can pinpoint highs and lows, a simple Dow reading of HHHL-LHLL will do you good, given you understand the 6th rule of Dow Theory that is.
"the public is not yet ready for it" W.D. GANN
  • #12
  • Feb 26, 2024 10:59am Feb 26, 2024 10:59am
Quoting Kwt4x
{quote} I don't think anyone can help you if you think countries economy data can be manipulated by "big fish", forex is not the stock market my friend. if you can pinpoint highs and lows, a simple Dow reading of HHHL-LHLL will do you good, given you understand the 6th rule of Dow Theory that is.
Do you talk about if the highs are higher than each others and the lows also in an up trend and the oposit in the down trend???? I have really played so much with this. I find the daily highs and lows and arrange them and write them down for the previous week and try to trade this week. More than often the Market play with me games like hitting my sls and then go back and so on. Because of that I am aiming to find different ways to understand the markets movements.

And I really hope that someone confirm for me that Forex is not manipulating by market makers and big players in the Market. I hope that the Market really is because wwell known rules we all can learn and adopt. But is it?????
  • #13
  • Feb 26, 2024 12:35pm Feb 26, 2024 12:35pm
Quoting aalaarajy
{quote} Do you talk about if the highs are higher than each others and the lows also in an up trend and the oposit in the down trend???? I have really played so much with this. I find the daily highs and lows and arrange them and write them down for the previous week and try to trade this week. More than often the Market play with me games like hitting my sls and then go back and so on. Because of that I am aiming to find different ways to understand the markets movements. And I really hope that someone confirm for me that Forex is not manipulating...
the market does not play games with you, your broker does, and it's your fault for listening to him when telling you to put a stoploss for him to harvest.
you confirmed it by saying it hit your sls and go back, so you did read the market correctly but gave your broker the advantage to take out your trade.

trust the math of your averages to get direction, and trust the rules of trend stages to make the most of your trades.
"the public is not yet ready for it" W.D. GANN
  • #14
  • Feb 27, 2024 4:26am Feb 27, 2024 4:26am
Also, Gann as what I read about him have something called time cycles. Also these if there are any helpful soul that will explain for me in words along with the nine square so I can understand what they entails.
  • #15
  • Feb 27, 2024 7:08am Feb 27, 2024 7:08am
reading the market is not the same as trading it nor it's the same as money management.

all traders can read the same thing if they want to, but when it come to trading each will choose a trading style wither scalping/daytrading/swing/long term
and when managing the money some might be aggressive some might be conservative.

all GANN methods are to help you read the market correctly and give you future S/R, how you trade it is totally up to you.

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"the public is not yet ready for it" W.D. GANN
  • #16
  • Feb 27, 2024 7:53am Feb 27, 2024 7:53am
Quoting Kwt4x
{image}
Hmm, I still can see the price! Can we have more lines here?
Observer effect
  • #17
  • Feb 27, 2024 8:46am Feb 27, 2024 8:46am
Quoting Kwt4x
reading the market is not the same as trading it nor it's the same as money management. all traders can read the same thing if they want to, but when it come to trading each will choose a trading style wither scalping/daytrading/swing/long term and when managing the money some might be aggressive some might be conservative. all GANN methods are to help you read the market correctly and give you future S/R, how you trade it is totally up to you. {image} {image}
Well, but now I am still out when it comes to reading the Market through Ganns publicly available methods. I want someone to break it down for me with words so I can take this knowledge and apply it manually to the historical data I can reach. I am not able to use Gannzilla or the other gann indicators that are available, so I want to understand the logic and ideas behind all these calculations and tools so I can perform them on the daily or weekly timeframes. I nor want or can use lower time frames.

So far I have got some explanations about the nine square and the math equation I can use with it. All the other ideas is still unknown for me. .... ... --????
  • #18
  • Feb 27, 2024 1:01pm Feb 27, 2024 1:01pm
Now to give you an example of what I did about the so far available info I have of the Nine square:
They say you have to find a bottom or a top in order for you to calculate your s/r.
Well then.
I went to investing.com and brought up the Gold historical data and began reading about the last two weeks the daily time frame of course.
I found that the week before the last week the Gold was creating highs at 2044 and downward. When I was sure that the closing prices was far from the 1944 I considered this was the highest point in this top.
Well, now to the calculator.
Square root of 2044 - 1= 2015. Ausum! It was really a level where the gold bounced back from at least twice.
Square root of 2044 - 1.5 = 2001
square root of 2044 -2 =1987 Also a wonderful level where the gold just went just 30 pips downward before a boom upward.
Now the 1984 is my bottom since the lows and closing prices says that.
Now I have the 1998 and 2012 and the 2026 and 2041 levels. And wow! they were really good levels for someone that have a good money management approach.

Now this so far I have understood about Ganns Nine square and I have managed to play with it. So what more could I get if I have his other ideas.
So I hope still there are some help from you to explain them for me especially the time cycle combined with the nine square. And please remember I need only explanations with words. No pics please.
  • #19
  • Feb 28, 2024 5:27am Feb 28, 2024 5:27am
So, also about the Nine square. Is mthere are more to it the square root of a bottom/top equation? Is there are an idea that rely behind these price cycles, and why the price turn to stop or reverse from them?
I mean what is the logic that made Gann use this and talk about it?
  • #20
  • Feb 28, 2024 5:41am Feb 28, 2024 5:41am
And more important: Did I understand the Ganns square correct? Do I use this correct or just some random info from the Internet claiming that this is to Gann?
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