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  • #21
  • Edited 5:51am Dec 26, 2023 12:51am | Edited 5:51am
The advantage of low spread is destroyed by negative slippage that you start to experience on volumes above 5 lots. The negative slippage is happening on opening and closing the order. The slippage is proportional to the order volume. On orders with 40 lots it has a negative slippage of about 5 points each side (on opening and closing, in total ca. 10 points that brings 400 USD loss = 40x10). Is it the practice of FusionMarkets only or other brokers as well?

I have asked the support of Fusion Markets and here is their explanation:

Liquidity is tiered, usually with smaller volumes quoted at top of book and liquidity providers willing to fill larger volumes at lower tiers of liquidity. This is normal across the broader market, where the spread you pay to fill a larger order is wider than for a small order.


However, MT5 will only show the price at the top-of-book, not the price to fill your whole order - so you need to account for a larger order being likely to fill across multiple layers of market depth in order to find enough liquidity.


A larger order is more difficult for a liquidity provider to fill with their liquidity providers, and is more risky for the market maker, so a natural dynamic in markets is that the available liquidity will be distributed across multiple price layers. This additional spread provides the liquidity provider with a buffer or cushion of additional revenue which in turn provides the liquidity provider with more time to hedge out their exposure.


So they explained that slippage occurs due to a dynamic spread! This means that the low spread they show in MetaTrader is just an illusion and does not apply to larger orders. Lol
  • #22
  • Dec 26, 2023 12:53pm Dec 26, 2023 12:53pm
Quoting EZ57
On orders with 40 lots it has a negative slippage of about 5 points each side (on opening and closing, in total ca. 10 points that brings 400 USD loss = 40x10). Is it the practice of FusionMarkets only or other brokers as well?
Their reply isn't far-fetched. But I'd say that it depends on the currency pair and the time of day. For EURUSD, for example, 0.5 pips on average seems too much.

Does this broker show an order book, that is Depth of Market in MT5?
If the answer is yes, then you can get a rough estimate of what kind of slippage to expect on each currency pair. (Well, if what they're showing is real anyway )

Here's an example of how it might look
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: MT5 Depth of Market.png Size: 27 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: MT5 Market Watch.png Size: 18 KB
  • #23
  • Dec 26, 2023 2:21pm Dec 26, 2023 2:21pm
The problem lies in their advertising of low spreads, which is misleading. Clients expect these low spreads regardless of the order volume. However, if you experience significant negative slippage (effectively a larger spread), your actual trading results will differ from those predicted by the strategy tester. The strategy tester operates based on the spreads found in their historical quotes, which reflect the low spreads advertised in MetaTrader. Yet, in live trading, when you open orders with lot sizes larger than 1 lot, you're likely to encounter negative slippage (a larger spread), leading to a discrepancy between the results of the tester and actual live trading.
  • #24
  • Dec 27, 2023 6:33am Dec 27, 2023 6:33am
Quoting EZ57
The problem lies in their advertising of low spreads, which is misleading. Clients expect these low spreads regardless of the order volume.
If you're going to be trading 40 lots, you need to look beyond what's advertised.
So, what is it that you want? Lower slippage or zero slippage?
  • #25
  • Dec 27, 2023 7:33am Dec 27, 2023 7:33am
Quoting Trivion
{quote} If you're going to be trading 40 lots, you need to look beyond what's advertised. So, what is it that you want? Lower slippage or zero slippage?
I need fixed low spread! Without any manipulations like FusionMarkets. I am not talking about 40 lots, it was just example. Even you trade 5 lots, you will have bigger spread (by 2-3 points) on FusionMarkets.
  • #26
  • Dec 27, 2023 4:12pm Dec 27, 2023 4:12pm
Quoting EZ57
{quote} I need fixed low spread! Without any manipulations like FusionMarkets. I am not talking about 40 lots, it was just example. Even you trade 5 lots, you will have bigger spread (by 2-3 points) on FusionMarkets.
I wouldn't say that's manipulation, it's trying to fill your order as fast as possible with the liquidity they have. How about you try other brokers that are perhaps larger and attempt large orders. Everyone knows there are liquidity issues with large orders that show up as slippage or slow execution time. You can also change the spread used in the tester.
  • #27
  • Jan 3, 2024 8:29pm Jan 3, 2024 8:29pm
Quoting EZ57
The advantage of low spread is destroyed by negative slippage that you start to experience on volumes above 5 lots. The negative slippage is happening on opening and closing the order. The slippage is proportional to the order volume. On orders with 40 lots it has a negative slippage of about 5 points each side (on opening and closing, in total ca. 10 points that brings 400 USD loss = 40x10). Is it the practice of FusionMarkets only or other brokers as well? I have asked the support of Fusion Markets and here is their explanation: Liquidity is tiered,...
Hi EZ57,



Thank you for taking the time to share your experience with Fusion Markets. We understand that encountering negative slippage, especially with larger volume trades, can be frustrating, and we appreciate the opportunity to address this matter.

Your experience highlights a crucial aspect of trading in the Forex CFD market – the impact of market liquidity on order execution, particularly for larger volume trades.

As our support team explained, liquidity is indeed tiered, a common characteristic across the broader market. The top-of-book pricing typically seen on platforms like MetaTrader represents the best available prices for orders of certain volumes. However, as order size increases, it often requires tapping into deeper layers of liquidity, which might be priced differently. An effect you'll unfortunately see across all brokers.

We strive to be transparent in our communication and understand that there might be a gap in how this market dynamic is perceived versus its representation in strategy testing tools. The strategy tester, while useful, operates on historical spreads which may not always encapsulate the dynamic nature of live market conditions such as market depth, which is particularly important for larger trades.

We want to emphasise that large trades being filled through layers of liquidity - and the resulting slippage - will be experienced at all brokers, as indicated by others in this thread. However, our low commission structure ensures that our traders can still benefit from some of the most favourable trading conditions in the industry.
We are committed to providing our clients with competitive trading conditions and transparent information to help them make informed trading decisions. We will also explore ways to enhance our educational resources to cover these aspects more comprehensively.

Please feel free to reach out to us directly for any further clarifications or assistance.
  • #28
  • Edited 10:52pm Jan 16, 2024 10:34pm | Edited 10:52pm
Quoting FusionMkts
{quote} Hi EZ57, Thank you for taking the time to share your experience with Fusion Markets. We understand that encountering negative slippage, especially with larger volume trades, can be frustrating, and we appreciate the opportunity to address this matter. Your experience highlights a crucial aspect of trading in the Forex CFD market – the impact of market liquidity on order execution, particularly for larger volume trades. As our support team explained, liquidity is indeed tiered, a common characteristic across the broader market. The top-of-book...
Yesterday, I was trading AUDJPY. I placed an order 13 lots. After a minute I see the open profit of the trade is showing in terminal as $500+. I close the order and in the history I see the closed profit of this order is showing as $80. Your negative slippage killed 400$ of the profit.
For me it looks like Fraud! You can play with spread how you want and explain it with liquidity, lol Traders can not rely on what they see in the terminal. You are showing low spread but in reality it is not the spread that is applied.

Today in the morning I placed couple trades on GBPUSD just 1 lot. The spread was showing 0.1 pips in the terminal. All orders were placed with the spread of 0.8 pips! You play with the spreads, it is not acceptable!!!
Serious brokers should not change the spreads on opening and closing of the orders, it has same effect as negative slippage.
  • #29
  • Jan 17, 2024 5:53pm Jan 17, 2024 5:53pm
Quoting EZ57
{quote} Ontem, eu estava negociando AUDJPY. Fiz um pedido de 13 lotes. Depois de um minuto, vejo que o lucro aberto da negociação aparece no terminal como $500+. Fecho o pedido e no histórico vejo que o lucro fechado desse pedido é de US$ 80. Sua derrapagem negativa matou 400$ do lucro. Para mim parece fraude! Você pode brincar com spread como quiser e explicar com liquidez, haha Os traders não podem confiar no que veem no terminal. Você está apresentando spread baixo, mas na realidade não é o spread que é aplicado. Hoje pela manhã fiz algumas...

Do you have proof? It would be interesting if you could prove to other traders what you are saying. Otherwise, it becomes a game of pushing and shoving between you and the broker.
I've been using Fusion for a short time and I would really like you to show proof of what you're saying.
  • #30
  • Jan 18, 2024 5:39am Jan 18, 2024 5:39am
Quoting guisgs
{quote} Do you have proof? It would be interesting if you could prove to other traders what you are saying. Otherwise, it becomes a game of pushing and shoving between you and the broker. I've been using Fusion for a short time and I would really like you to show proof of what you're saying.
I can show you my account and trading on it via TeamViewer and you will see that every trade, even 1 lot is placing not at the ask/bid prices, but there is a
negative discrepancy in 4-6 points (and more) at opening and closing! In total resulting in -10 and more points.
Until you start making normal profits, you won’t notice it. At the beginning of my trading on FusionMarkets everything was fine, I didn’t notice it. But as soon as I earned a profit from them, they did this to me. Suddenly, I noticed that the open profit displayed in the terminal, after closing a trade, was less than 50%. Furthermore, I observed that for every trade I placed, the ask and bid prices were different from those shown in the terminal.

I can present it to anyone via TeamViewer.
  • #31
  • Jan 18, 2024 7:46am Jan 18, 2024 7:46am
Quoting EZ57
{quote} Posso mostrar a você minha conta e negociar nela via TeamViewer e você verá que cada negociação, mesmo 1 lote, não está sendo colocado nos preços de venda/compra, mas há uma discrepância negativa em 4-6 pontos (e mais) na abertura e no fechamento! No total resultando em -10 e mais pontos. Até começar a ter lucros normais, você não notará isso. No início da minha negociação no FusionMarkets estava tudo bem, não percebi. Mas assim que obtive lucro com eles, eles fizeram isso comigo. De repente, percebi que o lucro aberto exibido no terminal,...

You seem willing to prove what you say when you say you are willing to negotiate with Teamviewer open.
However, it would be more convenient if you attached photos or screenshots so that not just one, but everyone who uses the Fusion service could check the evidence that what you are saying happened.
  • #32
  • Jan 18, 2024 9:20am Jan 18, 2024 9:20am
Quoting guisgs
{quote} You seem willing to prove what you say when you say you are willing to negotiate with Teamviewer open. However, it would be more convenient if you attached photos or screenshots so that not just one, but everyone who uses the Fusion service could check the evidence that what you are saying happened.
On the screenshots and photos you can not see it. Since you need to see the ask/bid price (price lines on the chart) and at the same time open an order and see the open price of the order. Therefore I invite anyone who want to see the evidence to use TeamViewer and I will place a trade on my account, so you will see that the open price is far away from bid/ask price. It is not 1 point, but 6-8 points, and the bigger the order volume the bigger this distance, and distance is always negative. It is similar to negative slippage.
  • #33
  • Jan 18, 2024 11:40am Jan 18, 2024 11:40am
Quoting EZ57
{quote} Nas capturas de tela e fotos você não consegue ver. Já que você precisa ver o preço de venda/compra (linhas de preço no gráfico) e ao mesmo tempo abrir uma ordem e ver o preço de abertura da ordem. Portanto, convido qualquer pessoa que queira ver as evidências a usar o TeamViewer e farei uma negociação em minha conta, para que você veja que o preço de abertura está longe do preço de compra/venda. Não é 1 ponto, mas 6-8 pontos, e quanto maior o volume do pedido, maior será a distância, e a distância é sempre negativa. É semelhante ao deslizamento...

I agree that this could be a big problem. But my trading style I care more about speed of execution during hard news.
Regarding this, did you notice any delay or slippage?
Best wishes!
  • #34
  • Jan 21, 2024 3:34pm Jan 21, 2024 3:34pm
Quoting guisgs
{quote} I agree that this could be a big problem. But my trading style I care more about speed of execution during hard news. Regarding this, did you notice any delay or slippage? Best wishes!
The problem I described is actually a negative slippage. The open price is always in negative so that your trade starts already with a loss.
I want to mention, that this issue didn't occur at the beginning of my trading by FusionMarkets, but only after I have reached some significant profit.
  • #35
  • Feb 27, 2024 6:16am Feb 27, 2024 6:16am
There are robots that will open multiple lots of any size. You could easily open 40 x 1 lot and close the same using a magic number with one key stroke to buy and one key stroke to close. The slippage excuse should disappear.
  • #36
  • Mar 5, 2024 5:38am Mar 5, 2024 5:38am
Quoting dantpm
There are robots that will open multiple lots of any size. You could easily open 40 x 1 lot and close the same using a magic number with one key stroke to buy and one key stroke to close. The slippage excuse should disappear.
If you get negative slippage for 1 lot as well, then for 40 x 1 lot, you will get in total same negative slippage as for 1 x 40 lot.
I am disappointed from FusionMarkets. The conditions "zero spread" is just advertisment. In reality you get negative slippage and it is same as a larger spread.
  • #37
  • Mar 5, 2024 6:03am Mar 5, 2024 6:03am
Quoting EZ57
{quote} If you get negative slippage for 1 lot as well, then for 40 x 1 lot, you will get in total same negative slippage as for 1 x 40 lot. I am disappointed from FusionMarkets. The conditions "zero spread" is just advertisment. In reality you get negative slippage and it is same as a larger spread.
You are ignoring the detail that smaller lots can and do get matched and closed more quickly than larger lots.
  • #38
  • Mar 6, 2024 7:20am Mar 6, 2024 7:20am
Quoting dantpm
{quote} You are ignoring the detail that smaller lots can and do get matched and closed more quickly than larger lots.
I tried, but on FusionMarkets you get also negative slippage on small lots, the slippage is smaller, but if you open many trades the slippage accumulates, so at the end you have same problem as with bigger lots.

You see that FusionMarkets representative are silent, because they know about this issue, they have nothing to say.
  • #39
  • Mar 27, 2024 11:47pm Mar 27, 2024 11:47pm
Hi EZ57,

Just jumping in. Excuse my silence, as I heard you chatting to our team privately. I'd like to expand on what was mentioned in our previous responses and what the team has discussed with you outside of the forums. Slippage on large trades when trading around large price spikes is a normal aspect of trading, as the order fills through layers of market depth on the best available live price.

Our client experience and high-quality trade conditions are paramount to us. We understand we were not able to provide you with the conditions that you require - filling your large trades at solely the top of book price – we have acted in good faith and made many attempts to provide you with information about the execution of your trades and broader market mechanisms.

While we have since parted ways, we hope you can appreciate the great efforts we have made to provide you with the best possible trading conditions.

- Jack
  • #40
  • Nov 6, 2024 5:15pm Nov 6, 2024 5:15pm
Quoting FusionMkts
Hi EZ57, Just jumping in. Excuse my silence, as I heard you chatting to our team privately. I'd like to expand on what was mentioned in our previous responses and what the team has discussed with you outside of the forums. Slippage on large trades when trading around large price spikes is a normal aspect of trading, as the order fills through layers of market depth on the best available live price. Our client experience and high-quality trade conditions are paramount to us. We understand we were not able to provide you with the conditions that you...
What is considered a large order according to you , Is 50 lots large enough to cause slippage ? 100 lots ? (provided that we are trading in liquid sessions like LDN /NY with liquid pairs like EU , GU , AU ) What slippage i can generally expect with these sizes ?
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