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Full time trading?

  • #1
  • First Post: Jun 18, 2007 2:45am Jun 18, 2007 2:45am
I am curious if anyone out there has gone from being a newbie to actually trading full time. I know that we have all heard the stories of people "making" hundreds of pips a day and buying that new Ferrari...

But realistically, does anyone trade full time and make a living? I love the market and would like to dedicate myself to it while making everyday a learning experience to increase my trading knowledge.

Thanks,

Jeremy
  • #2
  • Jun 18, 2007 3:49am Jun 18, 2007 3:49am
I have.

I started trading live in Feb. 2004 and quit the day job at the end of May 2007.

Check back with me in 6 months and see if I survive.
  • #3
  • Jun 18, 2007 4:17am Jun 18, 2007 4:17am
Me too.

I also started to trade full time since last month, after studying the market and strategies for months. I think it is hard for me to succeed if I don't take it serious and treat it as a full-time job. See if I can survive too!!
  • #4
  • Jun 18, 2007 5:07am Jun 18, 2007 5:07am
while we boil water, we can fried some chicken.

full time may not that full.......
i don't think i'll do better if i do it full time
  • #5
  • Jun 18, 2007 5:16am Jun 18, 2007 5:16am
Quoting Gwan
while we boil water, we can fried some chicken.

full time may not that full.......
i don't think i'll do better if i do it full time


I agree with you....me too, not yet got succeed, in full time
  • #6
  • Jun 18, 2007 7:24am Jun 18, 2007 7:24am
  •  CWH
  • | Joined Feb 2007 | Status: United We Buy, Divided We Sell | 249 Posts
Quoting spudbox
I have. I started trading live in Feb. 2004 and quit the day job at the end of May 2007. Check back with me in 6 months and see if I survive.
Good luck to you. I hope I can join your league soon.
"If, at first, you don't succeed, try, try, try again" - Winston Churchill
  • #7
  • Jun 18, 2007 7:26am Jun 18, 2007 7:26am
  •  CWH
  • | Joined Feb 2007 | Status: United We Buy, Divided We Sell | 249 Posts
Quoting pipal
Me too. I also started to trade full time since last month, after studying the market and strategies for months. I think it is hard for me to succeed if I don't take it serious and treat it as a full-time job. See if I can survive too!!
And best of luck to you too.
"If, at first, you don't succeed, try, try, try again" - Winston Churchill
  • #8
  • Jun 18, 2007 7:39am Jun 18, 2007 7:39am
i am a long way off from full time, however i would like to go full time by next year
Trade Well
  • #9
  • Jun 18, 2007 7:52am Jun 18, 2007 7:52am
Just started full time back in january 07, lost about a $1000 combined with two separate accounts and have battling back and forth to stay profitable.I love this market, it's like watching soap opera, everyday threr's a new story to be told and that's what feeds me the energy.I'll keep it going no matter what.
  • #10
  • Jun 18, 2007 7:55am Jun 18, 2007 7:55am
If I can consistently earn round 100 pips per week for 12 months, I would go for a full time trader.

_____________________
Living needs faith!
Living needs faith!
  • #11
  • Jun 18, 2007 7:56am Jun 18, 2007 7:56am
Quoting CWH
Good luck to you. I hope I can join your league soon.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. Forex was always a means to an end for me, not the end itself.

I'm using the profit I am making from forex to pay the bills while I build some other businesses and branch out into other markets for trading opportunities.
  • #12
  • Jun 18, 2007 8:09am Jun 18, 2007 8:09am
I have not gone fulltime nor am i sure that i ever would..

 

  1. its got to depend on how good you are
  2. How much you need to live off
  3. outgoings

Basically, I earn ~£100K a year doing something i enjoy with quite a bit of free time to trade(sometimes) I have a huge mortgage and a child on the way.. I would have to be able to make a fortune to maintain my current standard of living via trading..
I'm not saying it isnt possible with large capital, i'm sure it is but if i was 18 living at home, not other options, had some success... I'd do it in a flash.!!!

The other reason?
Do you want to switch from one full time job to another? 12,14,16 hours?

Trade which ever way you make money but bear that in mind if your looking to fulltime try to adapt your methods to longer term charts and then you could make a living trading part-time.
Also if you could do it on the money in your account now.. why not double it through trading then you only need to risk half as much when you go fulltimey

...I'm still dreaming

What if the Hokey Cokey is what its all about?
  • #13
  • Jun 18, 2007 8:12am Jun 18, 2007 8:12am
Quoting jt348
I am curious if anyone out there has gone from being a newbie to actually trading full time. I know that we have all heard the stories of people "making" hundreds of pips a day and buying that new Ferrari...

But realistically, does anyone trade full time and make a living? I love the market and would like to dedicate myself to it while making everyday a learning experience to increase my trading knowledge.

Thanks,

Jeremy
Hello Jeremy,

I left work to trade full time in November last year. After almost six months, I was broke (although I went in severely undercapitalised with about £1,000 and expected to make a living off that - certainly wasn't being realistic) and I also traded an account for a family member with £1,000 and actually lost that and to make it worse, ran that into a debit!!

So, after six months I went back to work with my old company and now I trade part time again. Although I lost money I found it a very valuable experience and discovered many things that I just do not think I would have found trading part time. This in turn has started to turn me into a much better trader.

I am still not making money consistently BUT I really do feel like I am progressing. Some learn quicker than others but you know you are turning a corner when you start to realise where your weaknesses are and concentrate on them and you also have that epiphany when you see something happening and you can say to yourself "I am not going to do this because previously I made a mistake doing this and it cost me money".

Good luck in your trading,

Tom
  • #14
  • Jun 19, 2007 11:03am Jun 19, 2007 11:03am
Quoting the_wizard
Hello Jeremy,

I left work to trade full time in November last year. After almost six months, I was broke (although I went in severely undercapitalised with about £1,000 and expected to make a living off that - certainly wasn't being realistic) and I also traded an account for a family member with £1,000 and actually lost that and to make it worse, ran that into a debit!!

So, after six months I went back to work with my old company and now I trade part time again. Although I lost money I found it a very valuable experience and discovered many things that I just do not think I would have found trading part time. This in turn has started to turn me into a much better trader.

I am still not making money consistently BUT I really do feel like I am progressing. Some learn quicker than others but you know you are turning a corner when you start to realise where your weaknesses are and concentrate on them and you also have that epiphany when you see something happening and you can say to yourself "I am not going to do this because previously I made a mistake doing this and it cost me money".

Good luck in your trading,

Tom

How much money should a fulltime trader need to begin?
  • #15
  • Jun 19, 2007 11:49am Jun 19, 2007 11:49am
"Young People of Ireland, I love You" the pope said on his visit to Ireland over 20 years ago. I should know, I was there.

Listen up, trying to trade fulltime is a pain in the butt, trying to make "wages" from trading to pay your monthly bills is an even bigger pain in the butt, its also a pain in the head. I should know, I was there.

Become a Hobby Trader, keep your job and salary, trade daily charts with low leverage, spend less than 30mins a day setting up trades, dont get stressed from trading, you will enjoy it better and I would bet you will be more successful and make money. Dont mind what Robert T Kiyosaki from Rich Dad Poor Dad say about giving up your paid job, Listen to boycie he knows a thing or 2. The best scenario is to have a paid job, trade on the side and make money from both. Dont try and complicate things by "going PRO" become a Happy Hobbier.


All my Love,

boycie

PS: See that guy from the UK Steviet, He is a textbook Hobby Trader - works in the bank for the wages then makes some money from the markets part-time.
  • #16
  • Jun 19, 2007 2:10pm Jun 19, 2007 2:10pm
Quoting vhek
How much money should a fulltime trader need to begin?
That is a difficult question to answer.

It depends on many things.

  1. How much do you need to live on per month?
  2. Have you got any money saved that can help you in losing months?
  3. How many pips can you expect to make per month?
  4. How do you trade? What is your win/loss ratio?
  5. What percentage of your account equity will you risk per month? 2% is conservative and most often advised. Undercapitalised traders may need to use much higher.
  6. What hours will you work? If you trade daily bars only, then your days are mostly free, unless you are learning / managing a trade. Could this be spent dosing any kind of freelance work that could supplement your income at all and take the pressure off slightly?

Lets look at two examples:

Trader A, trades daily bars on price action, needs £1k a month to live off and has proven over time that he can take at a minimum, 100 pips profit per month consistently but he takes positions often with stops of close to 100 pips. Since he only checks the charts once a day and only needs to see them when he is in a position he has a lot of free time. He was a journalist before he started trading and can submit one article every month and get £250 for it.

£1,000 - £750 = £750 profit needed every month.
£750 / 100 pips he can make = Trade size of £7.50 per pip
100 pip stops x £7.50 = £750 risked on average position.
His success ratio is good so he can risk 5% per trade. This means he needs a starting balance of £15,000 (15,000 / 100 x 5 =750)

Here is the second.

Trader B, trades intraday on breakouts, needs £2k a month to live off and has proven over time that he can take at a minimum 250 pips profit per month consistently. He gets in at pivot points with a tight stop and if the market takes off he trails closely hoping to catch a large move. If it doesn't he is out. He loses a vast majority of the time because often the breakouts don't work - but when they do his few winners make a lot more than his losers. He has to watch the screen full time and so can do no other form of work.

£2,000 profit needed every month.
£2,000 / 250 pips he can make = Trade size of £8 per pip
20 pip stops x £8 = £160 risked on average position.
He must only risk 2% because of his quantity of losers. Therefore he would need £8,000. (8,000 / 100 x 2 =160)


I am fully aware most people who start trading full time don't want to hear this but take it from someone who has tried it and failed, the chances are stacked heavily against you unless you go in fully capitalised.

Bear in mind that this does not include increasing your pot which is very important since it is compounding that makes the trader rich.

  • #17
  • Jun 19, 2007 4:05pm Jun 19, 2007 4:05pm
Quoting the_wizard
That is a difficult question to answer.

It depends on many things.

  1. How much do you need to live on per month?
  2. Have you got any money saved that can help you in losing months?
  3. How many pips can you expect to make per month?
  4. How do you trade? What is your win/loss ratio?
  5. What percentage of your account equity will you risk per month? 2% is conservative and most often advised. Undercapitalised traders may need to use much higher.
  6. What hours will you work? If you trade daily bars only, then your days are mostly free, unless you are learning / managing a trade. Could this be spent dosing any kind of freelance work that could supplement your income at all and take the pressure off slightly?

Lets look at two examples:

Trader A, trades daily bars on price action, needs £1k a month to live off and has proven over time that he can take at a minimum, 100 pips profit per month consistently but he takes positions often with stops of close to 100 pips. Since he only checks the charts once a day and only needs to see them when he is in a position he has a lot of free time. He was a journalist before he started trading and can submit one article every month and get £250 for it.

£1,000 - £750 = £750 profit needed every month.
£750 / 100 pips he can make = Trade size of £7.50 per pip
100 pip stops x £7.50 = £750 risked on average position.
His success ratio is good so he can risk 5% per trade. This means he needs a starting balance of £15,000 (15,000 / 100 x 5 =750)

Here is the second.

Trader B, trades intraday on breakouts, needs £2k a month to live off and has proven over time that he can take at a minimum 250 pips profit per month consistently. He gets in at pivot points with a tight stop and if the market takes off he trails closely hoping to catch a large move. If it doesn't he is out. He loses a vast majority of the time because often the breakouts don't work - but when they do his few winners make a lot more than his losers. He has to watch the screen full time and so can do no other form of work.

£2,000 profit needed every month.
£2,000 / 250 pips he can make = Trade size of £8 per pip
20 pip stops x £8 = £160 risked on average position.
He must only risk 2% because of his quantity of losers. Therefore he would need £8,000. (8,000 / 100 x 2 =160)


I am fully aware most people who start trading full time don't want to hear this but take it from someone who has tried it and failed, the chances are stacked heavily against you unless you go in fully capitalised.

Bear in mind that this does not include increasing your pot which is very important since it is compounding that makes the trader rich.

I think those numbers are pretty low. I would double those numbers to allow for compounding and bad months. I would also add at least six months living expenses in the bank account to cover sickness, holiday, unforeseen expenses etc. So we're talking about approx £30K for sensible business startup capital.

I'm leaving my job at the end of this month to trade full time. I've got enough in the bank to keep the family for 3 years before I need to take any money from the trading business. I wouldn't consider it without that.

Good luck to you all.
  • #18
  • Jun 19, 2007 4:24pm Jun 19, 2007 4:24pm
KEEP YOUR JOBS!!!!

Once u quit your job it is difficult to regain (in some cases) so keep your job, you will need it. Trust me. Every mickle makes a muckle.

want an easy way to trade the forex?

notice a trend on daily or weekly charts, buy on a dip of that trend and HOLD!!! do not EXIT until a reversal pattern arrives
100% of traders are losers. Just that some win more than they lose!
  • #19
  • Jun 19, 2007 10:05pm Jun 19, 2007 10:05pm
Quoting Mr demark
KEEP YOUR JOBS!!!!

Once u quit your job it is difficult to regain (in some cases) so keep your job, you will need it. Trust me. Every mickle makes a muckle.

want an easy way to trade the forex?

notice a trend on daily or weekly charts, buy on a dip of that trend and HOLD!!! do not EXIT until a reversal pattern arrives
I AGREE TOTALLY WITH YOU MAN.....HOW MUCH % DO YOU MAKE PER MONTH?
Sorry about my english...
  • #20
  • Jun 19, 2007 11:00pm Jun 19, 2007 11:00pm
I trade for a living - I have been for roughly 24 months.

I live on the gold coast in Australia - and trade from the comfort of my own home.

It is possible - you just need to be realistic with your goals, have a stringent money management policy in place, and constantly analyse the market for what it is doing, not what you think it is doing.

Its that simple - you dont need to complicate FX trading into all these sub-categories....like - need to eliminate emotions (what the hell is emotional control??? ive heard this word being used all the time on FF - emotional control??? - were all humans and we do have emotions believe it or not), you need discipline (were not robots). etc.

My advice to anyone who is wanting to do this full time -

1. Get a system that works FOR YOU! not Jerry's system who lives in Sydney with wife and 3 kids, or your uncle Bob who got you into forex in the first place - explore, search and research until you find a system that works for you.

2. Analyse the market in its current state in PRESENT TIME. Not the time it was when you first put the trade in, not the time in the future where you think the will go, in PRESENT TIME.

3. Have 3 scenarios of your game plan for each trade....A game plan for down, a game plan for sideways, a game plan for up.

4. Sufficient money management....you want a strategy that has your PIPS AT RISK: TARGET Ratio at least at 4:1.....So if you target 500 pips in a month, you want at least a 2000 pip allowance on your account. If you are on 100:1, and use only 2% per trade, this fits that criteria.

5. Have realistic goals....a goal of 10-15% a month is realistic....a goal of 150% a month is not.

6. Have sufficient start up capital - You are conducting a business.....you need capital, or you wont be able to live. If you dont have sufficient start up capital - and you are CONFIDENT you can produce results (after extensive trading, and having a 6th sense for the market) then find the capital - Save it up, work for it, trade for it (build it up over time), even possibly find investors (what i did).

Its simple commonsense, treat each trade as if it were a scenario. And conduct yourself as if you were running a business.

Im 22 years old - and im close to reaching my goals in forex trading. I have averaged 13.17% per month for the last 16 months (had 2 negative months that whole time).

And theres no reason why anyone else cant do it either - its not rocket science, really.....its just all training and being aware of your situation at all times, and how you are willing to react to this situation.

Cheers

Rusty
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