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Getting flagged after a withdrawal

  • #21
  • May 29, 2007 9:16pm May 29, 2007 9:16pm
Quoting BurgerKing
My closed trades have been closed for days and they did not bother with that. But once i filed for withdrawal, they immediately reversed some of the winners but left the loosers intact.
Withdrawal does catch brokers' attentions.
I think that you should name this broker so that others may not find themselves in this situation.
Could it be the broker 1world forex as I've heard that they disqualify and reverse winning trades (alledgedly for news trading/scalping).
  • #22
  • May 29, 2007 10:04pm May 29, 2007 10:04pm
Can anyone here provide proof of flagging or broker misconduct ? what exactly does getting flagged mean ? how do these brokers disqualify your trades when you ask for a withdrawl ?



Post some statements or proof of this ......

I hear about this stuff all the time on these fourms, I have a hard time believing any of it for two reasons.

1. I scalp and trade news events with multiple brokers and the worse thing that has happened to me was requotes and server problems. And at the end of the day the brokers have always been accomidating.

2. I have never seen any proof of these claims, and more often than not they usually come from "virgin" traders. But who am i to say that, i just started doing this yesterday.
Keep it simple stoopid....
  • #23
  • May 29, 2007 10:25pm May 29, 2007 10:25pm
I tend to agree with this.

I'm sure brokers may "flag" an account, but the only thing I think this may do is speed up the process for them off-loading orders to a higher tier. This way, they know not to blindly take on the risk of certain traders.

I do agree, though, that honestly, this type of complaint may also be partially inside the trader's head as maybe an excuse to transfer blame when a system is no longer profitable.

Quoting Kurka Fund
Can anyone here provide proof of flagging or broker misconduct ? what exactly does getting flagged mean ? how do these brokers disqualify your trades when you ask for a withdrawl ?



Post some statements or proof of this ......

I hear about this stuff all the time on these fourms, I have a hard time believing any of it for two reasons.

1. I scalp and trade news events with multiple brokers and the worse thing that has happened to me was requotes and server problems. And at the end of the day the brokers have always been accomidating.

2. I have never seen any proof of these claims, and more often than not they usually come from "virgin" traders. But who am i to say that, i just started doing this yesterday.
  • #24
  • May 30, 2007 4:39am May 30, 2007 4:39am
Quoting Kurka Fund
Can anyone here provide proof of flagging or broker misconduct ? what exactly does getting flagged mean ? how do these brokers disqualify your trades when you ask for a withdrawl ?

Post some statements or proof of this ......
I hear about this stuff all the time on these fourms, I have a hard time believing any of it for two reasons.
1. I scalp and trade news events with multiple brokers and the worse thing that has happened to me was requotes and server problems. And at the end of the day the brokers have always been accomidating.
2. I have never seen any proof of these claims, and more often than not they usually come from "virgin" traders. But who am i to say that, i just started doing this yesterday.
I found this link on another forum: http://theforextruth.com/SCAMS.html
May be after reading it, you will no longer be among the disbelievers regarding broker (mis)conduct. Although in this thread, there is a happy ending only after the trader involved threatened to complain to the NFA, you have to ask yourself, how many times does it end up in trader's favour. Only very few times I bet.

May I add that the above link is about the conduct of one broker and I am not saying that all brokers fall into this category. For the record, I have never myself had any such problem with any broker.
  • #25
  • May 30, 2007 5:50am May 30, 2007 5:50am
Well, I read the scam report...obviously that can be a little upsetting.

I'm not sure what this broker was thinking, really...how can you disqualify a trade just because you don't want profits coming out of your pockets? If they want to "stop" news trading profits from occuring, there are plenty of ways to do this (like widening your spreads)...sucks like hell to your customers, but what's worse? upset news traders that would eat into your profits? or looking bad in front of millions because you disqualified a legitimate trade?

Hey, I have nothing against brokers trying to protect themselves against scalping by making it more difficult to trade during times when scalping is too easy but how a broker can justify disqualifying a trade is completely beyond me, really...hey if the broker was too dumb or didn't have the capacity to handle the trade, then that's their own fault...don't make the trader pay for your mistake. Just plug the mistake and move on...

It's the same stance I take with traders...if you make a legitimate mistake, then by all means, fess up to it and move the hell on...don't dwell on why the world is against you.

Quoting PipStar
May be after reading it, you will no longer be among the disbelievers regarding broker (mis)conduct. Although in this thread, there is a happy ending only after the trader involved threatened to complain to the NFA, you have to ask yourself, how many times does it end up in trader's favour. Only very few times I bet.

May I add that the above link is about the conduct of one broker and I am not saying that all brokers fall into this category. For the record, I have never myself had any such problem with any broker.
  • #26
  • May 30, 2007 6:55am May 30, 2007 6:55am
mrmikal, it's the dumbest thing any broker could do to disqualify news trades and take the profits back, it's the worse publicity for their business. But at least you know what type of broker you are dealing with; now who's keen to open an account with them?

I can also tell you that another trader from the other forum replied to the post with the link I posted above saying he has $ 1000.00 of winning trades that were in his words not spike trades being disqualified with same broker. And the broker in question was not responding to his emails regarding this matter.
  • #27
  • May 30, 2007 7:35am May 30, 2007 7:35am
Hmm... proof.

Well, here is the trade reversal letter I got from FXCM a week after a large news trading day last year.

If you fight the broker on it, you will win. However most brokers will atleast Try to scare you into thinking what they are doing is within their rights and you will roll over.


"Dear XXXX,

Please be advised that pursuant to section 6(d) and 6(e) the Client Agreement, FXCM will be invoking its right to cancel certain trades made in your account. In addition, please be further advised that pursuant to the Client Agreement your account will be subject to dealer intervention, such that either some or all orders going forward are subject to the approval of the dealing desk.

In order to protect the integrity of the market and its exposure to the market, FXCM has reversed following trades:

0700XXXX, 0701XXXX, 0701XXXX, 0701XXXX, 0701XXXX, 0701XXXX,

Internet, connectivity delays, and price feed errors sometimes create a situation where the prices displayed on FXCM's Trading Station do not accurately reflect the market rates. The concept of "scalping", or taking advantage of these Internet delays, cannot exist in an OTC market where the client is buying or selling directly from the market maker.

Since FXCM acts as the counterparty for all account transactions and subsequently determines appropriate hedging of such positions in the interbank market, FXCM cannot accept trades that are off the market, as it precludes necessary offset with banks which is required for risk management purposes.

However, if your trading strategy relies solely on "scalping," you may want to consider our PropFX platform. Since FXCM does not act as the ultimate counterparty on the PropFX platform, as positions are transferred directly to the banks, scalping is not restricted. For more information on the PropFX platform, please click on the following link: www.propfx.com.

If you have any questions or comments regarding this notification, please feel free to contact our Compliance Department at [email protected].

Thank you for your understanding.

Best Regards,"


2 more weeks of fighting and threatening followed until the 55k was put back into my account.

Although I entered during the news, none of the trades I executed that day were open less than 5 minutes, most were open trades for more than 30 minutes.


For those asking what we mean by "flagged", it means being put on manual execution. No more automatic fills, and in most cases the broker will harass you with requotes until you simply leave that brokerage. In my opinion it is very difficult if not impossible to trade interday on a manual account. I have been requoted 5-10 pips off 3-4 times in a row before, and rarely will you get the price you wanted once on manual. Usually the broker is asking for an 8-10 pip spread on the EUR by simply requoting you out there.
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. ~ Aristotle
  • #28
  • May 30, 2007 8:07am May 30, 2007 8:07am
HI,

It's miserable to hear that some brokers reversed trade that are profitable. If you say some brokers do anything they could like requotes, delay execution or some other tricks to prevent you from scalping or to drive you away, it's dirty but still, can be understandable. But after requests of withdrawals they reversed your winning trades is just plainly absurd.

Which brokers out there fall into these categories? (so we can be cautious about them).

Just how can they justifiy a reason for that kind of action, especially if a complaint is filed to the NFA? I don't know how on earth they can come up with a valid reason to convince someone (like the NFA) they can do that.
  • #29
  • May 30, 2007 8:17am May 30, 2007 8:17am
Have you started an action with the NFA?
if not WHY NOT?
Same Whore .... Different Dress
  • #30
  • May 30, 2007 8:18am May 30, 2007 8:18am
V,

Totally makes sense...that's why the ECN models don't have an issue with this...because generally, they just pass orders right on through.

Of course, I don't particularly agree with what they're saying...if they're providing liquidity, then they obviously deserve to take on the risk...however, I suppose it IS in the contract that they can cancel trades if takes advantage of feed arbitrage (which isn't necessarily they're fault)...however, like you said, most reputable brokers will at least honor the trade, but take steps to ensure you can't take advantage of the feed problems (since they have to take on the risk)...

Cancelling trades is just poor customer service.

Quoting Vensik
Hmm... proof.

Well, here is the trade reversal letter I got from FXCM a week after a large news trading day last year.

If you fight the broker on it, you will win. However most brokers will atleast Try to scare you into thinking what they are doing is within their rights and you will roll over.


"Dear XXXX,

Please be advised that pursuant to section 6(d) and 6(e) the Client Agreement, FXCM will be invoking its right to cancel certain trades made in your account. In addition, please be further advised that pursuant to the Client Agreement your account will be subject to dealer intervention, such that either some or all orders going forward are subject to the approval of the dealing desk.

In order to protect the integrity of the market and its exposure to the market, FXCM has reversed following trades:

0700XXXX, 0701XXXX, 0701XXXX, 0701XXXX, 0701XXXX, 0701XXXX,

Internet, connectivity delays, and price feed errors sometimes create a situation where the prices displayed on FXCM's Trading Station do not accurately reflect the market rates. The concept of "scalping", or taking advantage of these Internet delays, cannot exist in an OTC market where the client is buying or selling directly from the market maker.

Since FXCM acts as the counterparty for all account transactions and subsequently determines appropriate hedging of such positions in the interbank market, FXCM cannot accept trades that are off the market, as it precludes necessary offset with banks which is required for risk management purposes.

However, if your trading strategy relies solely on "scalping," you may want to consider our PropFX platform. Since FXCM does not act as the ultimate counterparty on the PropFX platform, as positions are transferred directly to the banks, scalping is not restricted. For more information on the PropFX platform, please click on the following link: www.propfx.com.

If you have any questions or comments regarding this notification, please feel free to contact our Compliance Department at [email protected].

Thank you for your understanding.

Best Regards,"


2 more weeks of fighting and threatening followed until the 55k was put back into my account.

Although I entered during the news, none of the trades I executed that day were open less than 5 minutes, most were open trades for more than 30 minutes.


For those asking what we mean by "flagged", it means being put on manual execution. No more automatic fills, and in most cases the broker will harass you with requotes until you simply leave that brokerage. In my opinion it is very difficult if not impossible to trade interday on a manual account. I have been requoted 5-10 pips off 3-4 times in a row before, and rarely will you get the price you wanted once on manual. Usually the broker is asking for an 8-10 pip spread on the EUR by simply requoting you out there.
  • #31
  • May 30, 2007 9:24am May 30, 2007 9:24am
As far as price differences/ server feeds are concerned, that is not the clients problem. There are plenty of ways to combat this with widening spreads and whatnot. Hey, if it's still to much risk, just say no news trading and set policy to requote every trade through news.

If I walk into 7/11 and they have a 20 cent sticker on a coke instead of $1.50 or whatever it is nowadays. I will take it to the counter and walk out with a 20 cent coke. The broker is a store, they put the currency on the shelf at Whatever price they want. They are a market maker. They cannot change the price when I take it to the counter, and they cannot void transactions that I have previously made any more than 7/11 can.


Just remember, the broker doesn't want to fight. They want you to assume that they are bigger than you and know what is right. If you threaten to go to the NFA, or generally even take it beyond just accepting what they give you then you will win.

Look at some of the complaints on the NFA website. Most of them are settled toward the client + a 100k fine.

In the brokers eyes, it is not worth fighting. They could give me the 55k they withdrew from my account, or they could explain it to the NFA and then give me my 55k and the NFA 100k.

That was FXCM by the way. I had dealt with them constantly jerking me around, arguing with their customer service, servers shutting down 30 seconds to 1 minute Before news, ect for 3 years. I slammed them as hard as I could that day, expecting to leave the next.

Honestly I don't normally trade news, however this was a different case.
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. ~ Aristotle
  • #32
  • May 30, 2007 1:21pm May 30, 2007 1:21pm
V,

I'm totally with you on this. The feed ISN'T the client's problem. I'm just saying that if the sum is big enough (and I believe $55K is large enough), they may try and pull the trade on you to see if you'd fight it. A deplorable practice, in my mind. You're absolutely right...if you fight it, you'll win 99% of the times...and the 1% you don't win, you'll report it to the NFA and accept their judgement.

FXCM, of all brokers, should know and perform better than that...what a hassle to have to go through...

Quoting Vensik
As far as price differences/ server feeds are concerned, that is not the clients problem. There are plenty of ways to combat this with widening spreads and whatnot. Hey, if it's still to much risk, just say no news trading and set policy to requote every trade through news.

If I walk into 7/11 and they have a 20 cent sticker on a coke instead of $1.50 or whatever it is nowadays. I will take it to the counter and walk out with a 20 cent coke. The broker is a store, they put the currency on the shelf at Whatever price they want. They are a market maker. They cannot change the price when I take it to the counter, and they cannot void transactions that I have previously made any more than 7/11 can.


Just remember, the broker doesn't want to fight. They want you to assume that they are bigger than you and know what is right. If you threaten to go to the NFA, or generally even take it beyond just accepting what they give you then you will win.

Look at some of the complaints on the NFA website. Most of them are settled toward the client + a 100k fine.

In the brokers eyes, it is not worth fighting. They could give me the 55k they withdrew from my account, or they could explain it to the NFA and then give me my 55k and the NFA 100k.

That was FXCM by the way. I had dealt with them constantly jerking me around, arguing with their customer service, servers shutting down 30 seconds to 1 minute Before news, ect for 3 years. I slammed them as hard as I could that day, expecting to leave the next.

Honestly I don't normally trade news, however this was a different case.
  • #33
  • May 30, 2007 1:37pm May 30, 2007 1:37pm
This is a topic that deserves attention for good reason. Because retail Forex is such a free-for-all, what it all boils down to after all of the accusations, confusion and whining, is that Traders need an advocacy group. Traders need and association or a union to educate and represent them.

Imagine this scenario:

You have an situation with your broker where you think that there may be an illegal or unethical action on their part. You log on to "Forex Traders Association"(imaginary entity) and fill out a form. Then after a review period, the association contacts you and tells you if what they did was legal or ethical. If it is not, the association would officially contact the brokerage in writing on your behalf to request resolution. The brokerage would have the opportunity to correct the situation and/or make a statement of policy or position on the matter.

This would be powerful on several fronts. It would:

1. Make the broker aware that this situation is being taken seriously and is not some poor helpless small time trader to be brushed under the carpet and forgotten

2. Let the broker know that everyone in the association would be aware of thier behavior and/or policies.

3. Inform the broker that they are dealing with industry legal experts and cannot buffalo you with double talk and made up rules

4. Show the broker that they are vulnerable to real legal action by an association who is fully funded with it own big scary lawyers.

Image it. Imagine the power. The broker/trader relationship would be redifined forever.

FXO
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #34
  • May 30, 2007 1:42pm May 30, 2007 1:42pm
this topic deserves its onw thread

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=31835
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #35
  • May 30, 2007 6:06pm May 30, 2007 6:06pm
Forex traders do have an association thats main goal is the protection of the client.

CFTC

In my experience, the NFA is there to make examples of the offending party and regulate the market makers according to their rules. The NFA cares little about the best interest of the client.

I have seen the CFTC step in front of the NFA and reverse NFA's course for the betterment of the clients involved.
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. ~ Aristotle
  • #36
  • May 30, 2007 11:32pm May 30, 2007 11:32pm
I dont think ibfx would be the right broker for your situation. I had another broker that told me to take my money and go somewhere else after making a lot of money on some news trades.

If it happens, dont fret, just take your money and move on. The reason a lot of places dont like this is because it eats up a lot of liquidity from the providers. The providers tell the broker they dont like your trading, and then the broker has to shut you down. Dont take it personally, its business as usual. If you were the broker, would you keep a client that made a lot of money from the provider? or would you like to keep your provider that is paying you (your business).

So yes, the stories are out there, but just keep looking around and you will find a broker that doesnt mind it.

Quoting herringtrader
Hello,

I trade the news spikes at IBFX. I would like to make a withdrawal from my account. From previous experiences I know this can be risky. At pip-forex.com and fxdd.com I got flagged after a withdrawal and my orders were never filled again at news releases.

Has any spike trader ever got flagged at IBFX after a withdrawal?

Thanks,

Herringtrader
  • #37
  • May 31, 2007 11:05pm May 31, 2007 11:05pm
Wouldnt it be better to trade forex futures? pay a commission and fixed spread and have no problems scalping.
  • #38
  • Jun 1, 2007 4:49am Jun 1, 2007 4:49am
hi...

Personally I would not think the broker had a legal leg to stand on...once the trade is accepted and within a reasonable amount of time had not cancelled the trade...its done and could not be cancelled..If as someone mentioned the problem only showed after days and trying to withdraw the money....I dont think so...way to late in the trade agreement getting seriously close to fraud in those cases...and what about the other side of that trade(offsetting at the bank) ..I bet it was not cancelled..
  • #39
  • Jun 1, 2007 8:27am Jun 1, 2007 8:27am
Vensik,

Do you know by chance if you were on their "no deal desk" option at that time? They told me they are switching everone to it and you dont have an option to do it or not do it on new accounts, you are put there no matter what. I am just curious if they had a problem with the liquidity provider and maybe thats why they tried to recoupe their money from you..


Quoting Vensik
Hmm... proof.

Well, here is the trade reversal letter I got from FXCM a week after a large news trading day last year.

If you fight the broker on it, you will win. However most brokers will atleast Try to scare you into thinking what they are doing is within their rights and you will roll over.


"Dear XXXX,

Please be advised that pursuant to section 6(d) and 6(e) the Client Agreement, FXCM will be invoking its right to cancel certain trades made in your account. In addition, please be further advised that pursuant to the Client Agreement your account will be subject to dealer intervention, such that either some or all orders going forward are subject to the approval of the dealing desk.

In order to protect the integrity of the market and its exposure to the market, FXCM has reversed following trades:

0700XXXX, 0701XXXX, 0701XXXX, 0701XXXX, 0701XXXX, 0701XXXX,

Internet, connectivity delays, and price feed errors sometimes create a situation where the prices displayed on FXCM's Trading Station do not accurately reflect the market rates. The concept of "scalping", or taking advantage of these Internet delays, cannot exist in an OTC market where the client is buying or selling directly from the market maker.

Since FXCM acts as the counterparty for all account transactions and subsequently determines appropriate hedging of such positions in the interbank market, FXCM cannot accept trades that are off the market, as it precludes necessary offset with banks which is required for risk management purposes.

However, if your trading strategy relies solely on "scalping," you may want to consider our PropFX platform. Since FXCM does not act as the ultimate counterparty on the PropFX platform, as positions are transferred directly to the banks, scalping is not restricted. For more information on the PropFX platform, please click on the following link: www.propfx.com.

If you have any questions or comments regarding this notification, please feel free to contact our Compliance Department at [email protected].

Thank you for your understanding.

Best Regards,"


2 more weeks of fighting and threatening followed until the 55k was put back into my account.

Although I entered during the news, none of the trades I executed that day were open less than 5 minutes, most were open trades for more than 30 minutes.


For those asking what we mean by "flagged", it means being put on manual execution. No more automatic fills, and in most cases the broker will harass you with requotes until you simply leave that brokerage. In my opinion it is very difficult if not impossible to trade interday on a manual account. I have been requoted 5-10 pips off 3-4 times in a row before, and rarely will you get the price you wanted once on manual. Usually the broker is asking for an 8-10 pip spread on the EUR by simply requoting you out there.
  • #40
  • Jun 1, 2007 10:05am Jun 1, 2007 10:05am
No, this was before they had PropFX, although the Beta of it was out at the time they were just starting to open it for live accounts.

They say that in the email that I copied and pasted actually.

"However, if your trading strategy relies solely on "scalping," you may want to consider our PropFX platform. Since FXCM does not act as the ultimate counterparty on the PropFX platform, as positions are transferred directly to the banks, scalping is not restricted. For more information on the PropFX platform, please click on the following link: www.propfx.com."

In my opinion PropFX is untradable, terrible execution and they will basically fill you wherever it screws you most. News time or normal trading time. I have watched them completely ignore stops and limits on it as well when we were testing it. I love ECN's, but PropFX is just terrible.

We actually had 1 stop that it went through over 150 pips over 2 days. The stop was still in the dealing station and had not been taken out. Eventually the market came back within profit and we were able to close it manually. When we asked their customer service we got probably one of the weirdest answers I have ever heard from a broker, "Oh yes, if you trade with stops and limits this probably isn't the dealing station for you."

Once again, this was when we were testing it last year. I cannot vouch for it now, but my experience with FXCM has been consistent through all of their dealing stations. They will screw the customer for their gain every chance they get.
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. ~ Aristotle
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