Why H4, not M1? | Forex Factory

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Why H4, not M1?

  • #1
  • First Post: May 24, 2007 1:50pm May 24, 2007 1:50pm
Whether anybody can distinctly explain?!

What I mean, for 4 hours there are 4 hour candles, 48 five-minute, 48*5 minute. So, trader can get for ONE H4 candle - !240 M1 candles!
And he/she DOESN’T NEED!!!

What does it mean? It means he lives one trading life instead
of 240. Isn’t it true?! The whole 240 small lifes instead of one big and strange. Rather than working on minutes.
Why one loves large TF, and ABUSES small?!

Becouse of it’s EASY and SIMPLE to trade H4???!
And hard, very-very hard another way is.
As the river Limpopo’ guy has said here in H4-strategy thread,
H1 it is not pleasant to him… (One can understand why…)

But, let ONE MINUTE will be as long as 4 hours…
Imagine. Then, we’ll have ABSOLUTELY the same
pictures/curves…. Almost.

HOW MANY events occur INSIDE H4 of a candle? He or she even doesn’t know…

Why so seriously? Look. M1 trader MAY to be --a little-- money loser,
and H4 trader – is --100%-- time loser, as one day is the ONLY 6 candles,
and ALL the life is about 10.000 days… And that’s all. 60.000 candles is the limit.


The whole 240 small lifes instead of one.
A rose will bloom, it then will fade...
  • #2
  • Edited 2:44pm May 24, 2007 2:07pm | Edited 2:44pm
Quoting Depfy
Whether anybody can distinctly explain?!

What I mean, for 4 hours there are 4 hour candles, 48 five-minute, 48*5 minute. So, trader can get for ONE H4 candle - !240 M1 candles!
And he/she DOESN’T NEED!!!

What does it mean? It means he lives one trading life instead
of 240. Isn’t it true?! The whole 240 small lifes instead of one big and strange. Rather than working on minutes.
Why one loves large TF, and ABUSES small?!

Becouse of it’s EASY and SIMPLE to trade H4???!
And hard, very-very hard another way is.
As the river Limpopo’ guy has said here in H4-strategy thread,
H1 it is not pleasant to him… (One can understand why…)

But, let ONE MINUTE will be as long as 4 hours…
Imagine. Then, we’ll have ABSOLUTELY the same
pictures/curves…. Almost.

HOW MANY events occur INSIDE H4 of a candle? He or she even doesn’t know…

Why so seriously? Look. M1 trader MAY to be --a little-- money loser,
and H4 trader – is --100%-- time loser, as one day is the ONLY 6 candles,
and ALL the life is about 10.000 days… And that’s all. 60.000 candles is the limit.


The whole 240 small lifes instead of one.
Sorry to be harsh but........... NOOOOOOOOOOOOB....

This is hell of a stupid post...

The only point i agree with is the fact that the pattern look the same if you look from a longer view but you forgot 3 points (main points i would even say ):
SPREAD ! Go try to play on GBPYEN or GBPUSD on M1 and let me know if you are able to make your day. The only pair on which you can eventually play on M1 are very low spread pair and all you can do is scalp

TIME : to trade on M1 you need a lot of time looking constantly on the chart

STRESS : this result of the TIME point. When you enter a trade you are more and more stressed when it is not in your favor as well when it goes in your way. Honestly, i prefer to make 1 trade/day that wins 50 pips than 10 trade that with 5 pips each...

There is for sure other point but other will write them.

Last point : this thread has nothing to do in Trading System !!!

edit : the topic has been moved to a more appropriate place ^^ thanks mods
  • #3
  • May 24, 2007 8:23pm May 24, 2007 8:23pm
Plus the chart on these brokers do NOT represent the true price. Since forex is a decentralized market, you have to look at higher timeframes in order to rid of noise that is unique to each broker (this is NOT a stock market where it is regulated and everybody sees the same thing)

Plus, it's not good for your health to trade off the 1 min. Money is not EVERYTHING ..
  • #4
  • May 25, 2007 2:05am May 25, 2007 2:05am
Quoting melpheos
Sorry to be harsh but........... NOOOOOOOOOOOOB....

This is hell of a stupid post...

The only point i agree with is the fact that ...

There is for sure other point but other will write them.

Last point : this thread has nothing to do in Trading System !!!

edit : the topic has been moved to a more appropriate place ^^ thanks mods

Really STUPID?

OK. You see there is not a sense to trade MINUTES.
And how about M5???


I wonder why my topic was moved here.
It was in Trading Stategies and I sure it's interesting for ALL
professional traders, but not novices...

It's a philosophy - HOW to trade.

))))))))))))
A rose will bloom, it then will fade...
  • #5
  • May 25, 2007 2:12am May 25, 2007 2:12am
Quoting hilmy83
Plus the chart on these brokers do NOT represent the true price. Since forex is a decentralized market, you have to look at higher timeframes in order to rid of noise that is unique to each broker (this is NOT a stock market where it is regulated and everybody sees the same thing)

Plus, it's not good for your health to trade off the 1 min. Money is not EVERYTHING ..
MONEY IS NOT EVERYTHING.

Yes.

But we come to the market to trade, not to be in good health or for else...
Our purpose is to make MONEY, not the PART, but ALL we can.
Or I'm not true again???



About big TF.
I have said already: trader doesn't see all the events inside a candle.

That's a main thing, I see.
And CHAOTIC movements - they are everywere:
H4, D1, M1, M30 etc.
A rose will bloom, it then will fade...
  • #6
  • May 25, 2007 3:22am May 25, 2007 3:22am
Quoting Depfy
MONEY IS NOT EVERYTHING.

Yes.

But we come to the market to trade, not to be in good health or for else...
Our purpose is to make MONEY, not the PART, but ALL we can.
Or I'm not true again???



About big TF.
I have said already: trader doesn't see all the events inside a candle.

That's a main thing, I see.
And CHAOTIC movements - they are everywere:
H4, D1, M1, M30 etc.
There is no pattern in the lower timeframes. The lower timeframes are just made of noise.
  • #7
  • May 25, 2007 3:23am May 25, 2007 3:23am
Quoting Depfy
MONEY IS NOT EVERYTHING.

Yes.

But we come to the market to trade, not to be in good health or for else...
Our purpose is to make MONEY, not the PART, but ALL we can.
Or I'm not true again???



About big TF.
I have said already: trader doesn't see all the events inside a candle.

That's a main thing, I see.
And CHAOTIC movements - they are everywere:
H4, D1, M1, M30 etc.
What the point in trading and making money if you die of a heart attack at 25 with no hair because you traded on M1 ?

What all that money will be good for when you will be in a coffin ?
  • #8
  • May 25, 2007 3:58am May 25, 2007 3:58am
Quoting melpheos
What the point in trading and making money if you die of a heart attack at 25 with no hair because you traded on M1 ?

What all that money will be good for when you will be in a coffin ?
Dear,

I do not advise u to trade at the monitor hour by hour all days up to your heart attack...
But the thing is as follows: one trader stays in market becouse he/she wants to make money. No reason to trade yourself manually, u can insert your program into MT and simply control it around all the events. And THERE -
u mAy to choose ever TF, M5 or M15 - both're very profitable.

That's a method of trading should every use, I mean.

And more. When nonfarms - u can get movement in a FIGURE in 1 or 2 minutes. It's a reality, u know!!! And u MAY close a profitable position
and go away for and hour after that.
And H4-trader even doesn't know of it.


A rose will bloom, it then will fade...
  • #9
  • May 25, 2007 4:44am May 25, 2007 4:44am
Quoting aicccia
There is no pattern in the lower timeframes. The lower timeframes are just made of noise.
i disagree with this totallly
the lower time frames are just a close up version of the higher time frames.
a 1 min chart has just the same patterns tirangles support resistance trendlines and higher lows highs etc than a 30 min chart or higher if you think its just noise then you havent studyed it closely enough.
every move starts of froma 1 minute chart or even a 5 sec tic chart as linuxtroll would say.
The way to succeed in this game is to use a combination of time frames which thankfully i can see many more trading strats in here adopting.
personal;lly i use a 5 min chart and a 5 tic chart.i use the 5 min chart as my intra day trend and a tic chart for my entries . in a area where i think the 5 min chart will turn i wait for tic chart to give me a higher low or lower high then enter.
this method i could scale up to any two time frames and the reason i can do this is beacuse the patterns suppport resistance higher lows highs are alll the same acrosss alll time frames as i stated before.

In answer to the stament 10 trades for 5 pips or 1 trade for 50 pips most 5 min swings are around 20-30 pips on cable and once your in a goood one with trend then move up a time frame and ride it for more on 30 min.

so to summerise i trade 5 second tic charts with 5 min charts and look for 20 or more per trade and see no differnace on 5 sec chart to a 4 hour chart
  • #10
  • May 25, 2007 5:19am May 25, 2007 5:19am
Quoting dailydow
i disagree with this totallly
the lower time frames are just a close up version of the higher time frames.
a 1 min chart has just the same patterns tirangles support resistance trendlines and higher lows highs etc than a 30 min chart or higher if you think its just noise then you havent studyed it closely enough.
every move starts of froma 1 minute chart or even a 5 sec tic chart as linuxtroll would say.
The way to succeed in this game is to use a combination of time frames which thankfully i can see many more trading strats in here adopting.
personal;lly i use a 5 min chart and a 5 tic chart.i use the 5 min chart as my intra day trend and a tic chart for my entries . in a area where i think the 5 min chart will turn i wait for tic chart to give me a higher low or lower high then enter.
this method i could scale up to any two time frames and the reason i can do this is beacuse the patterns suppport resistance higher lows highs are alll the same acrosss alll time frames as i stated before.

In answer to the stament 10 trades for 5 pips or 1 trade for 50 pips most 5 min swings are around 20-30 pips on cable and once your in a goood one with trend then move up a time frame and ride it for more on 30 min.

so to summerise i trade 5 second tic charts with 5 min charts and look for 20 or more per trade and see no differnace on 5 sec chart to a 4 hour chart
I agree. You can't just put 4h system on 1m and expect it to work but you can tailor your entries and exits for your 4h system when looking at 1m, 5m etc.

I know a guy whos average trade duration is 15 seconds. He makes money. So it is all up to you, anyway.
  • #11
  • May 25, 2007 9:51am May 25, 2007 9:51am
I would be open to using 1 minute or 5 minute charts and just adjust the settings of my indicators. However, my charts simply do not zoom out far enough to be able to see anything. How can I check for possible chart formations such as "double bottom" if I can only see the past 12 hours? You see what I mean? One bottom may be on Tuesday, the next Friday morning, my five minute chart on Friday can zoom only to mid Wednesday .... thus I do not get a big enough picuture.

I know there are scalpers on this forum, Linuxtroll is one and he uses tick charts if I am not mistaken. Trading on these time frames can be done, although you need very small spreads and plenty of movement to accomplish your goals.
The market is my nation. Traders, my family. Hello, brothers and sisters!
  • #12
  • May 25, 2007 12:54pm May 25, 2007 12:54pm
I have never been able to be profitable in the very short time frames. Anything under 30m makes me lose money. My favorite time frame is the Hourly and 4H charts.
  • #13
  • May 25, 2007 1:10pm May 25, 2007 1:10pm
Quoting melpheos
This is hell of a stupid post...

Can you please refrain from calling other people's posts stupid... this isn't the place for that. I am sure there are other places where you would actually be welcomed to make such remarks, but FF is a forum where people are supportive of one another...You could say you disagree with the poster. There must be another newbie who looked at this post and realized for the first time that 1 min charts are full of noise.

I appreciate you making the effort to be nicer to others.
  • #14
  • May 25, 2007 1:32pm May 25, 2007 1:32pm
Quoting Depfy
Dear,

I do not advise u to trade at the monitor hour by hour all days up to your heart attack...
But the thing is as follows: one trader stays in market becouse he/she wants to make money. No reason to trade yourself manually, u can insert your program into MT and simply control it around all the events. And THERE -
u mAy to choose ever TF, M5 or M15 - both're very profitable.

That's a method of trading should every use, I mean.

And more. When nonfarms - u can get movement in a FIGURE in 1 or 2 minutes. It's a reality, u know!!! And u MAY close a profitable position
and go away for and hour after that.
And H4-trader even doesn't know of it.


You are right, there is move on M1 on NFP or such big annoncement but still, except if you use a straddle, it is very difficult to trade on M1.

If you have an EA that trade for you (i mean scalp for you) on M1 then great but in this case your are not trading at all right ? A robot is doing the work and if it is the case, you are lucky.
  • #15
  • May 25, 2007 3:01pm May 25, 2007 3:01pm
Quoting StockKJay
I would be open to using 1 minute or 5 minute charts and just adjust the settings of my indicators. However, my charts simply do not zoom out far enough to be able to see anything. How can I check for possible chart formations such as "double bottom" if I can only see the past 12 hours? You see what I mean? One bottom may be on Tuesday, the next Friday morning, my five minute chart on Friday can zoom only to mid Wednesday .... thus I do not get a big enough picuture.

I know there are scalpers on this forum, Linuxtroll is one and he uses tick charts if I am not mistaken. Trading on these time frames can be done, although you need very small spreads and plenty of movement to accomplish your goals.
Never trade minutes, please. It's awful one thing.

I mean absolutely different one. One can SEE all the market gives.
D u understand?
ALL THAT MAY BE SEEN.........

And then u'll decide what to do.
NOT do SOMETHING as ROBOT - looking over H4 charts,
but see ALL THAT'S HAPPEN, and then make a steps
which a God gives u to do...

Maybe only 10 minutes THIS DAY are REALLY USEFUL.
Who knows???

That's my personal opinion.
A rose will bloom, it then will fade...
  • #16
  • Edited 3:15pm May 25, 2007 3:13pm | Edited 3:15pm
Quoting melpheos
You are right, there is move on M1 on NFP or such big annoncement but still, except if you use a straddle, it is very difficult to trade on M1.

If you have an EA that trade for you (i mean scalp for you) on M1 then great but in this case your are not trading at all right ? A robot is doing the work and if it is the case, you are lucky.
Robot is the ONLY program, that runs your given commands.
The only INSTRUMENT for your convenience.
For example, u say him: if price achieves 1.9905 than pls open 2 Lot
position for me etc. But ALL THIS - is your personal work, not robot's.

It's fancy simple to make such programs for MT or MQ or etc...
Much more complex is to MAKE an ideas robot to involve into...

All the nonsense trading H4 is as follows:

U DO SOMETHING, VERY FAR FROM HEART ATTACK!
BUT U MAY ALSO EARN NOTHING... if u're so happy guy...

And an opposite: I trade only 10 minutes this day - and I sold
5 lots and have got 60 pips, then went away to do more useful
doings than to look into monitor.
A rose will bloom, it then will fade...
  • #17
  • May 25, 2007 5:48pm May 25, 2007 5:48pm
I trade 2 Pairs. I usually place 1 Trade / Pair / Day.

I Trade the Daily but use the 5 Min to Time my Entry.
  • #18
  • May 28, 2007 3:33am May 28, 2007 3:33am
Because you plan to make a living and not gamble.

Quoting Depfy
Whether anybody can distinctly explain?!

What I mean, for 4 hours there are 4 hour candles, 48 five-minute, 48*5 minute. So, trader can get for ONE H4 candle - !240 M1 candles!
And he/she DOESN’T NEED!!!

What does it mean? It means he lives one trading life instead
of 240. Isn’t it true?! The whole 240 small lifes instead of one big and strange. Rather than working on minutes.
Why one loves large TF, and ABUSES small?!

Becouse of it’s EASY and SIMPLE to trade H4???!
And hard, very-very hard another way is.
As the river Limpopo’ guy has said here in H4-strategy thread,
H1 it is not pleasant to him… (One can understand why…)

But, let ONE MINUTE will be as long as 4 hours…
Imagine. Then, we’ll have ABSOLUTELY the same
pictures/curves…. Almost.

HOW MANY events occur INSIDE H4 of a candle? He or she even doesn’t know…

Why so seriously? Look. M1 trader MAY to be --a little-- money loser,
and H4 trader – is --100%-- time loser, as one day is the ONLY 6 candles,
and ALL the life is about 10.000 days… And that’s all. 60.000 candles is the limit.


The whole 240 small lifes instead of one.
Bullish Attitude!
  • #19
  • Last Post: May 28, 2007 5:32am May 28, 2007 5:32am
Quoting marketsnipers
Because you plan to make a living and not gamble.
I agree with that.

Depfy, I think that one important thing is to separate the signal from the noise and if you look too close you will see only the noise.
When somebody talks to you, do you try to listen every ms of the sound separately , no you listen globaly (it doesn't matter if there is some extra noise you get the important message anyway)
When you read a text do you analyse each letter individualy, no you read the text globaly and even if there is a typing mistake or even a word that you don't understand it doesn't matter so much you get the meaning.
For the market it's the same thing. It you want to see all the small details you will get lost. You have to have a more global vision and higher timeframes give you that.
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