Is losing a requirement to be successful? | Page 4 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Proposed NFA Capital Requirement 1,322 replies

Margin Requirement EA 1 reply

MIG vs Northfinance Margin Requirement 2 replies

Attachments: Is losing a requirement to be successful?
Exit Attachments

Is losing a requirement to be successful?

  • #61
  • May 23, 2007 5:22am May 23, 2007 5:22am
Quoting zobo
LOL.

But wizzard, it can be done.

If a person who has a 1 mil account, is trading 1 mini lot per trade and never trade more than 2 pairs at a time. I am sure that guy doesn't have to close a trade when it's not in his favour. :
Someone with a 1 million account would not trade with just 1 minilot for a number of reasons. One being that they would expect a higher return than what a single minilot can deliver. How do you think they got their first million anyway?
  • #62
  • May 23, 2007 5:48am May 23, 2007 5:48am
Quoting zobo
If you are so confident that you will never lose in a trade, you can borrow money from banks or family and friends to trade. I am sure you can win much more than the interest paid to the bank.


p/s. Don't borrow money from bank to trade unless you are 100% sure you can win more than the interest from the bank.
i wish i could but south african tax clearance laws prevent an individual from taking more than a certain amount out of the country in one year...
  • #63
  • May 23, 2007 5:50am May 23, 2007 5:50am
Quoting KudzuFX
Someone with a 1 million account would not trade with just 1 minilot for a number of reasons. One being that they would expect a higher return than what a single minilot can deliver. How do you think they got their first million anyway?

From their parents. :
  • #64
  • May 23, 2007 5:51am May 23, 2007 5:51am
Quoting KudzuFX
Someone with a 1 million account would not trade with just 1 minilot for a number of reasons. One being that they would expect a higher return than what a single minilot can deliver. How do you think they got their first million anyway?

yes i agree...nobody is gonna make a million with a $1500 account in less than 5-10 years.....those who can open a million dolllar account will trade standard lots ($10) if they are wise...so if you wanna make big dollars you need a big account....if you dont have aq big account...then you MUST trade small otherwise you WILL get wiped out.
  • #65
  • May 23, 2007 7:21am May 23, 2007 7:21am
Quoting iandekoker
i wish i could but south african tax clearance laws prevent an individual from taking more than a certain amount out of the country in one year...

hey there come to Kenya!! Nobody cares how much you move in & out the country as long as the source & destinations can be verified.
Money: Bad Master, Best Slave
  • #66
  • Jun 13, 2008 3:27pm Jun 13, 2008 3:27pm
I know this is an old thread, didn't really read it all...

but just had to say obviously losing is a requirement to being successful since it is impossible to have winnings trades forever... you're bound to lose one sometime
  • #67
  • Jun 13, 2008 3:28pm Jun 13, 2008 3:28pm
Quoting iandekoker
yes i agree...nobody is gonna make a million with a $1500 account in less than 5-10 years.....those who can open a million dolllar account will trade standard lots ($10) if they are wise...so if you wanna make big dollars you need a big account....if you dont have aq big account...then you MUST trade small otherwise you WILL get wiped out.
I agree.. nobody except those who have already and those who will in the future

some prefer to start with $500 though
  • #68
  • Jun 14, 2008 3:56am Jun 14, 2008 3:56am
The absolute hardcore truth about trading is that you must control risk to be successful. Only by limiting risk is it possible to make gains. But that did not seem logical to me and I rejected the idea even though I had already lost a substantial amount before I was taught this principal. Logic suggested that more risk you take, the more gains you get therefore, all that is needed is a winning strategy + high risk and I could get rich quick. Not until continued fast losses were experienced, did I finally relinquish the get rich quick mentality and re think the question of risk. Slowly but surely I learnt that risk management was not only the most important tool, the key ingredient for success but ironically, with compounding, can still produce an amazing rate of return. So what are you going to do take this advice now - or keep trying the impossible until you finally learn it the hard way like I did? I voted yes but you can be an outlier and save yourself alot of pain if you listen
BTC Return This Year: na
  • #69
  • Edited 8:04am Jun 14, 2008 7:52am | Edited 8:04am
Granted this is an old thread, but still a viable point of discussion.

I will abstain from voting because I have an aversion to hanging chads
and fear a recount, or worse yet, a Florida State Supreme Court desicion.

However, I would like to offer the following experience:

If you've never lost big and felt the weight of the world on your shoulders,
having success in the market, however temporary, will not carry the same weight.

Long term, lasting success (profitability) can be more likely sustained if you
know what CAN happen if your wrong, how bad it CAN get when you fail and
fashion your trading habits so as not to allow a catastrophe to unfold in your account(s).

It is a model of scale as well. A six or seven figure account can just as easily
be wiped out as a five hundred dollar one. Never think that more money is
somehow an immunity to failure. Big boys get busted too.

A profit or a loss in trading must not dictate your next trade.

Your next trade should be signaled by a system, method, trade strategy, or
by some other means besides how much you made or lost on the last trade.

10 to 20 pips is about all I can stand to lose on a trade, regardless of position size.
It is at that point I know I'm out of sync with the market and get out, look at
what is going on and reassess the situation. Stop the leak and let it dry out.

If the trade still makes sense, I'll place an entry stop to get back in WHEN AND IF
the market returns to my former position's favor. Otherwise, it remains my
FORMER position - a thing of the past, a memory - not my instrument of self-destruction.

Ask yourself: If I intend to trade dozens or even hundreds of trades over the
course of time (days or weeks or months or years), why would it make any sense
to allow this ONE TRADE to destroy my account and plans for the future ???
Kill it before it kills you. Make no mistake, it is trying to kill you. Exit the damned trade.

So, my take on the matter is that YES you'll lose some before you consistently win
and you'll lose sometimes while you're consistently winning, but if you can
avoid a monster loss while perfecting your trading method, good for you.

However, if you battle with the monster and are mortally wounded and
somehow find the strength and courage to get up and fight him again
and you don't give up, someday you'll kick his ass and take all his money. Boo-yah !

Just remember, every now and then, he'll sneak up on you when you're not paying attention.
Be careful and try not to get hurt. You're doing something dangerous.
  • #70
  • Jun 14, 2008 10:05am Jun 14, 2008 10:05am
Quoting M.A.C.Doug
The absolute hardcore truth about trading is that you must control risk to be successful. Only by limiting risk is it possible to make gains. But that did not seem logical to me and I rejected the idea even though I had already lost a substantial amount before I was taught this principal. Logic suggested that more risk you take, the more gains you get therefore, all that is needed is a winning strategy + high risk and I could get rich quick. Not until continued fast losses were experienced, did I finally relinquish the get rich quick mentality and re think the question of risk. Slowly but surely I learnt that risk management was not only the most important tool, the key ingredient for success but ironically, with compounding, can still produce an amazing rate of return. So what are you going to do take this advice now - or keep trying the impossible until you finally learn it the hard way like I did? I voted yes but you can be an outlier and save yourself alot of pain if you listen
I would not call this an absolute hardcore truth... Well the first 2 sentences would be. However seems like you saying that by limiting risk you limit gains almost proportionately. This only makes sense if you are trading the exact same system/style and simply changing the lot size. But some systems, styles are "less risky" than others even though they produce greater gains.

Limiting risk is, of course, essential.

However, when people talk about risk and gains they usually are talking about 1 thing only... money. However, there are 2 dimensions to making money... TIME and MONEY. It is not an absolute +/-, up/down account balance thing... it is also, how fast you make money that is important.

If it took me 5 years to double my account with strategy X then you can bet your ass that I will be really careful about not wiping out my account, or even losing a huge portion of it.

If I can double the account in a month or 2 using Strategy Y, then obviously my perspective changes. You can take on more risk since you have only lost 1 or 2 months + your account, rather than 5 years + your account. Therefore starting over again is not a big problem, as long as you have some money to start with again... but that is just good money management.

Like everything there is more than 1 way to accomplish something. You can take a faster, "more risky" approach or a slower, "safer" approach.

The other variable to take into consideration is the quality of the pip. All pips are not created equal. Some trades are "safer" than others.

So it is possible to have a system that produces faster bigger gains than another "good system" that produces slower smaller gains and for it to personally feel less risky to me.

It all depends what your definition of risk is...

If you wipe out your account with Strategy X, you have lost the account balance + 5 YEARS
If you wipe out your account with Strategy Y, you have lost the account balance + 2 MONTHS
  • #71
  • Jun 14, 2008 10:44am Jun 14, 2008 10:44am
if you dont loss you cant be a trader but it depends to some other things

some one must loss 4 times to find a good strategy and another one must

loss 10 times but you must loss at least 1or 2
  • #72
  • Jun 15, 2008 1:25am Jun 15, 2008 1:25am
On the front end, yes. On the back end, no.

Losses serve to move us forward in our trading journey, provided they don't break us as traders first. Some folks will be happy with 60% wins and 40% losses. I am not. I now believe it is possible (not easy and not likely for most) to trade 100%. I'm currently shooting 98% in my demo and simulator trading (Vhands). It wasn't that long ago I would not have believed I could achieve anything close to that.

I voted "NO", but it really depends on where losses fit into your equation.
  • #73
  • Last Post: Jun 16, 2008 3:22am Jun 16, 2008 3:22am
irrespective of all definition, whether loosing to go broke or loosing along the journey and still having some funds left or even loosing and still making profit, well i believe loosing is a requirment to be successful because irrespective of this cases, it tends to put you on the right path, making you think faster as an experienced trader to take right decisions or even learn the better way of trading provided at such times you are emotionally and psychologically fit.seeing lossess tends to make you identify mistakes you have made and need to avoid in the future.
Well,this is how i see it related to my own lifestyle of trading .





ENJOY THE PIPS.................................
know thy edge and abide by it ! 4 in it shall thou be successful !
0 traders viewing now