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  • #21
  • May 16, 2007 2:21am May 16, 2007 2:21am
Quoting twoblink
Sin #6) "This guru is the mother of all traders.." If he was, he will be more than happy to show you his P/L sheet. Everything else is TALK.
This is the only point I disagree with. Why should someone bother to show anyone her results? You can tell a serious trader by her first two-three comments on a forum quite reliably. P/L sheets can be faked like anything else. Wisdom that comes with experience can't.
sans peur et sans reproche
  • #22
  • May 16, 2007 2:29am May 16, 2007 2:29am
Quoting ilanr
[Sin #6) "This guru is the mother of all traders.." If he was, he will be more than happy to show you his P/L sheet. Everything else is TALK.

This is the only point I disagree with. Why should someone bother to show anyone her results? You can tell a serious trader by her first two-three comments on a forum quite reliably. P/L sheets can be faked like anything else. Wisdom that comes with experience can't.
Yes, but when you ask him a question, and he says "It just works, I have no idea how.." then that's probably the only time he's telling you the truth.

I'd go to Donald Trump for real estate advice, and Buffett for investment advice.. Why?? Because they've achieved what I want to achieve.

If there's a guru that hasn't made money in the market, why should you listen to him? Ask him advice about books and authors he hasn't read?? How does that help you?

Read "The Richest Man in Babylon". Never consult the Baker when you want information about the stars..

I interviewed the top financial analyst in Taiwan before. His investment advice is used by the largest banks in Taiwan. During the break, I asked him "Just between you and me, what instruments do you invest in?" He told me "I don't invest!!" He doesn't put any money in the market!! He said "Oh, that's scary and risky, why would I want to do that??" but yet he tells everybody else to.. Beware the guy who gives you a free beer and tells you to drink first!

Question 1) Do you make money?
Question 2) Do you make money doing what you are teaching?
google:
  • #23
  • May 16, 2007 2:30am May 16, 2007 2:30am
Quoting ilanr
This is the only point I disagree with. Why should someone bother to show anyone her results? You can tell a serious trader by her first two-three comments on a forum quite reliably. P/L sheets can be faked like anything else. Wisdom that comes with experience can't.
Contrary to what people believe, trading business is where you can actually act/sounds smart without really being smart. Especially on the forum.

In this business, it's important to show some proof. At least a number of live trades.
  • #24
  • May 16, 2007 2:47am May 16, 2007 2:47am
Quoting luqmanz
In this business, it's important to show some proof. At least a number of live trades.
I somehow don't feel a need to see live trades by Twoblink, Jacko, or Igrok (to name just three out of several wise people here on FF) to know they know what they are talking about.

You can get ideas and learn from people who don't live to their teaching themselves. A good coach doesn't have to be an Olympic champion herself.

Besides, in any case one shouldn't take anything for granted, even if it comes from a respected source. If a smoking doctor tells you that smoking is bad - go to the Web, check it, see she's right, quit smoking. If a doctor who uses vitamin C tells you it's good for your health - go to the Web, check it, see it's BS, stop wasting you money on vitamin C.
sans peur et sans reproche
  • #25
  • May 16, 2007 2:54am May 16, 2007 2:54am
Quoting twoblink
Before you ask, type it into google, chances are you'll find your answers..

If that simple rule was obeyed, there'd be 90% fewer posts on every board in the world..

You know, it's amazing how 99% of all people are unable to put two words into google. I've found myself becoming the "research wizard" simply by being able to know things "out of the blue" about any random topic within 5 minutes simply by having internet, however, oddly, other people seem unable to grasp this concept, even thought they KNOW google and search engines and how to use them...Oddly, they never really do.

And I know the "could be answered with 5 seconds alone with google" dilemma ALL too well, especially in the IT/information world realm

As for the live proof: I have screenshots of an account at 5k, 8k, 13k and open positions in the thousands. So?
Those are snapshots. Do you know whether the next 12 months were the same? Yet if I posted three or four like that, wouldn't most people go ooohhhhhhhhh?

I think the essential part of any sort of information lies in its verifyability.
And if something works, you will always be able to verify/falsify it yourself, too.

Needing "proof" from others sometimes is just another way of saying "I'm too lazy to understand, evaluate and check this myself, so I'll just trust some snapshots"

Also it means you have trust issues! ;D

Hehehe j/k.

Twoblink, I appreciate all your posts, I just wish at some point nips and edges of the actual way to trade (the same way you teach the bank folks preferably?) would slip your tongue as well, since I'm insanely jealous I still don't know ;P

Take care,

SeekingLight
Trust price. Know yourself.
  • #26
  • May 16, 2007 4:30am May 16, 2007 4:30am
Quoting ilanr
I somehow don't feel a need to see live trades by Twoblink, Jacko, or Igrok (to name just three out of several wise people here on FF) to know they know what they are talking about.

You can get ideas and learn from people who don't live to their teaching themselves. A good coach doesn't have to be an Olympic champion herself.

Besides, in any case one shouldn't take anything for granted, even if it comes from a respected source. If a smoking doctor tells you that smoking is bad - go to the Web, check it, see she's right, quit smoking. If a doctor who uses vitamin C tells you it's good for your health - go to the Web, check it, see it's BS, stop wasting you money on vitamin C.
Thanks for the kind words.. BUT that said, If you are on a ship for 6 months and eating only raw fish and whatever dead sea gulls you can catch, then yeah, vitamin C is a GREAT IDEA!!

http://www.med.uc.edu/departme/cellbiol/Image7.gif

http://www.athropolis.com/arctic-facts/misc/scurvy.jpg

In the last few months, I have become a more humorous. I find humor adds to memory..

I'm going to let you in on a little secret; there are two types of teachers:

1) One who speaks with an air of authority

2) One who speaks because the concept is crystal clear in their mind and so presenting the idea is near effortless to them; almost as if you were asked to read a book that is in front of you.

Be able to differentiate the two, and you will live well. If you can't do this, you are going to be snake-oiled to death...
google:
  • #27
  • May 16, 2007 4:55am May 16, 2007 4:55am
Quoting twoblink
---snip--- If you are on a ship for 6 months and eating only raw fish and whatever dead sea gulls you can catch, then yeah, vitamin C is a GREAT IDEA!! ---snip---
Thank you for reminding this, I'll remember your words next time I'm for 6 months on a ship... ))

Quoting twoblink
there are two types of teachers:

1) One who speaks with an air of authority

2) One who speaks because the concept is crystal clear in their mind and so presenting the idea is near effortless to them; almost as if you were asked to read a book that is in front of you.

Be able to differentiate the two, and you will live well. If you can't do this, you are going to be snake-oiled to death...
Words of wisdom. In this Internet age, we sail in an ocean of information, and the ability to distinguish between good and bad information sources is the key to success in any voyage...
sans peur et sans reproche
  • #28
  • May 16, 2007 9:13am May 16, 2007 9:13am
twoblink – I crack up every time I see that asbestos suit! Personally, I prefer nomex…Oh, and maybe some ear plugs.

Quote
"Chapter ZERO ~ HOW TO USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION."


Point taken, but... dang! Why so loud?

May I share a thought or two? I didn’t see any mention of using the search function in your original list, but you’re 100% right that web searches are a great tool. There is probably too much information on the web pertaining to trading. For example, I googled “macd indicator” – it returned 336,000 results. If you just need a formula, you’ll find it there and you can move on. At some point, even the most diligent student will raise his hand and ask, “What about practical application? How do I make sense of all this?” Pupils will just copy, paste, and submit it for credit.

Being able to point someone in the right direction or help a novice avoid running aground is the real value of this community... well, that and ad revenues. As I suggested in my first post, if you think someone is wasting your time, then it is your choice to answer them or to suffer them no further.

Let me be clear. I believe lazy people are lazy thinkers and, therefore, lazy traders. We take their money all the time. I agree with twoblink in one sense: Take ownership. Do the basic work for yourself. Part of the process is learning about you. But don’t be afraid to ask about something when you get stuck. Twoblink will be happy to answer all your questions…

winterwhite:
Quote
Your expressions, TopTick, are a good reminder that we all, at some
time, were new and needed help with something –
That was the idea, but don’t take it as a license to avoid doing the homework.


In any case, all, thanks for taking the time to share your point of view. I have to go get another holy grail of coffee…
  • #29
  • Edited 9:30am May 16, 2007 9:29am | Edited 9:30am
Quoting TopTick07
At some point, even the most diligent student will raise his hand and ask, “What about practical application? How do I make sense of all this?” Pupils will just copy, paste, and submit it for credit.

This reminds me of something: I know someone who's a TA grad student, and he was telling me some of the awful essays he had to grade. The best one was someone copied an essay word for word from free-essays.com... and even sited it as a source! :surprised
  • #30
  • May 16, 2007 10:02am May 16, 2007 10:02am
Quote
and even sited it as a source! :surprised

At least he was an honest plaigarist...
  • #31
  • May 16, 2007 10:08am May 16, 2007 10:08am
Quoting twoblink

In the last few months, I have become a more humorous. I find humor adds to memory..

I'm going to let you in on a little secret; there are two types of teachers:

1) One who speaks with an air of authority

2) One who speaks because the concept is crystal clear in their mind and so presenting the idea is near effortless to them; almost as if you were asked to read a book that is in front of you.

Be able to differentiate the two, and you will live well. If you can't do this, you are going to be snake-oiled to death...
Then there's the third kind, which is by far the worst: those who like to speak in riddles and give false information.

The more people they can confuse and befuddle, the more superior they feel. They think of themselves as some sort of self-fashioned yoda. The confused are supposed to scratch their heads and think that somewhere there's some "inside group" that's sitting around nodding and saying ummm hmmmm.

These teachers from group three, as children, liked to tear the wings off flies, sit back and watch them struggle in pain and confusion until death, while convincing themselves they "helped" the fly.

Why don't you practice what you preach? It took me all of 30 seconds to pull up a chart, slap on the indicators, post it, and prove you were full of beans.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...5&postcount=27
  • #32
  • May 16, 2007 10:26am May 16, 2007 10:26am
blueruby probably put it better but he beat me to the post...

I'm not accusing anyone on this thread of the thing I find most annoying, but it is not "what is macd". I think that question actually fulfills the essential nature of internet forums. My pet peeve is threads by traders who have ( or seem to have) proprietary info ( work at banks, can see order flow, stop levels, etc...) condescendingly saying how stupid newbies are, how we take their money, they should just learn order flow, piggyback on jumbo orders... Pajamas guys like me, Google as we may, just do not have access to that kind of info. Retail forex is freakin hard to learn. It is the only thing I've ever undertaken that the more I learn the less I know. Not "the more I learn, the more I know how much I don't know". There is actually too much information out there, which is a double edged sword; I can just click a mouse button and find more FA, TA, and strategies than I could possibly digest, but the real practical application of all that is a different animal, like the difference between trading a demo vs real account. The other problem with the info glut is opportunities get arbed out over time. Seen any classic head-and-shoulders patterns lately? Thomas Friedman says that in the information age, there will be the Haves and the Have Laters. So, while I do value FF, it does not get me into the Skull and Bones Club. So anyway, all the truth and good info in this thread not withstanding, it just yanks my chain when "pros" start threads deriding newbs. Even I know which threads to skip. My apologies, but I'm just feeling a bit rant-y.
Cheers,
Taters
  • #33
  • May 16, 2007 10:32am May 16, 2007 10:32am
Alright Taters!

NEWBIES UNITE! TIME FOR THE REVOLUTION!

Get your torches and pitchforks at Home Depot or Lowes, meet me here at midnight, we'll have a few hours before the European session.

These guys need to remember there's a LOT more not-yet-successful traders out there, so we outnumber them 9 to 1!
  • #34
  • Edited 10:59am May 16, 2007 10:36am | Edited 10:59am
Quoting blueruby
Then there's the third kind, which is by far the worst: those who like to speak in riddles and give false information.

The more people they can confuse and befuddle, the more superior they feel. They think of themselves as some sort of self-fashioned yoda. The confused are supposed to scratch their heads and think that somewhere there's some "inside group" that's sitting around nodding and saying ummm hmmmm.

These teachers from group three, as children, liked to tear the wings off flies, sit back and watch them struggle in pain and confusion until death, while convincing themselves they "helped" the fly.

Why don't you practice what you preach? It took me all of 30 seconds to pull up a chart, slap on the indicators, post it, and prove you were full of beans.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...5&postcount=27
Dear Blueray..

I've noticed you picked a chart two different periods for the RSI and CCI..

It says RSI(14) and CCI(20)..

I guess I can pick SMA(100) and EMA(200) and say they have nothing to do with each other...

BUT..

So I guess you are calling me out.. so I'm going to have to post my can full of beans as you called it.. I'll shut up now, and let the picture do the talking.. You've obviously have not pulled up an RSI and CCI on the same chart before..
Attached Image
google:
  • #35
  • May 16, 2007 10:40am May 16, 2007 10:40am
Yep, that's what this board needs, a bunch of newbies revolting against those who have been newbies before.. Great idea!

You probably don't know much Chinese history, but there was a Chinese Emperor that burned all the teachers.. You might try that, that will do your country good and make your citizens proud. You are right, you out number the vets, and show your ignorance for the world to see. Good for you!

From what you are saying, I should shut up and let the newbies give me sage advice.. Thanks for the advice..

Quoting blueruby
Alright Taters!

NEWBIES UNITE! TIME FOR THE REVOLUTION!

Get your torches and pitchforks at Home Depot or Lowes, meet me here at midnight, we'll have a few hours before the European session.

These guys need to remember there's a LOT more not-yet-successful traders out there, so we outnumber them 9 to 1!
google:
  • #36
  • Edited 11:02am May 16, 2007 10:43am | Edited 11:02am
Quoting twoblink
Dear Blueray..

I've noticed you picked a chart two different periods for the RSI and CCI..

It says RSI(14) and CCI(20)..

I guess I can pick SMA(100) and EMA(200) and say they have nothing to do with each other...

BUT..

So I guess you are calling me out.. so I'm going to have to post my can full of beans as you called it.. I'll shut up now, and let the picture do the talking.. You've obviously have not pulled up an RSI and CCI on the same chart before..
And you can't look at a chart. I still see places where one goes up and the other goes down, and vice versa, ON THE CHART YOU POSTED.

If you simply looked at how they were calculated, you wouldn't make such an inane statement that they were exactly the same.

I didn't cherry pick the settings, I simply left them both at default.
  • #37
  • May 16, 2007 10:46am May 16, 2007 10:46am
Quoting twoblink

From what you are saying, I should shut up and let the newbies give me sage advice.. Thanks for the advice..
Advice doesn't have to be "sage", grasshopper.

The advice is, if you don't have positive things to say, or things that help, STFU.
  • #38
  • May 16, 2007 10:47am May 16, 2007 10:47am
Ooops! I forgot to add that increase RSI flattens out the graph, but the points of peaks and valleys remain the same..

But as a Noob, I know you knew that right?

As to Taters..

What you say is absolutely true; there's too much information... But if you said, "I read 2 articles that contradict each other, which article is right or neither?" I'm sure someone would answer you in a kind friendly manner.

I posted something, and got attacked by false information right away..

Has Mr. Newbie pulled up an RSI chart and a CCI chart in his life?? I doubt it.. But he's more than happy to hammer that information as if it were nails of gold.

The reason Vet's ride the newbies so hard is because while it's not even the majority of the newbies who are like that, it only takes one bad BO to stink up the locker room.
google:
  • #39
  • May 16, 2007 10:51am May 16, 2007 10:51am
My recommendation to those who are starting our or simply seeking honest improvement is to weed out the noise here in the factory. Search for those posters you reckon as knowledgeable and filter out the rest. Follow those few who actually know what they are talking about, read their posts and absorb their wisdom.

Too much noise in the Factory from those who don't know much but yet wouldnt want to listen...
  • #40
  • May 16, 2007 10:53am May 16, 2007 10:53am
Quoting blueruby
And you can't look at a chart. I still see places where one goes up and the other goes down, and vice versa, ON THE CHART YOU POSTED.

If you simply looked at how they were calculated, you wouldn't make such an inane statement that they were exactly the same.

I didn't change the settings, I left them both at default.
Your default is what?? What the program set for you? (I know you're a noob, but you know you can change the parameters right???)

I know people who use MACD(12,26,9) and I know people who use MACD(5,13,1). What is "default"?

And if you don't think they look pretty much the same, ok, you are right, I'm wrong. You win, I lose. Happy? Now you can wallow in your victory..
google:
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