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My Forex Funds - Discussion/Q&A

  • #541
  • Feb 7, 2023 10:24am Feb 7, 2023 10:24am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}If they reject that idea, and it were me, I would just accept the loss, simply because I know better than to trade that way. So I would treat this as a strong lesson to correct my behavior. Just my unsolicited and probably unwanted opinion (sorry).
I already accepted the loss after my experience with the MFF customer support. I take it as a lesson.

This is only to make other traders aware of the MFF approach towards assessing violation of the rules. I bet most of the traders are not aware of how it really works.

If MFF accepts my complain and admits this is not fair approach and reinstate my account - it will not be just my win, actually I don't care so much as losing one account doesn't hurt me. But it will be a win for MFF as they show to all their traders that they listen to them and want them to succeed. Unlike some other prop firms that only want their traders lose and collect their fees. Well the ball is on the MFF side now :-)
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #542
  • Feb 7, 2023 10:46am Feb 7, 2023 10:46am
Quoting Vitore
I'm fully aware of the complexity and other factors in play. If I was trading real account with the broker, maybe the balance would really get below the limit due to the slippage and delayed execution. But the point is - this is NOT real trading. It is playing a game on demo accounts which the prop firm may or may not use for their benefit.
-Well, but you are assuming that your trades are not getting copied. If MFF elects to copy trades over, even selectively or collectively, then they have to rely on what is realistic in terms of what profits and losses can be generated. They MUST rely on their servers in order to do that fairly. I think, to be fair, all trader's trades should be treated the same way, whether they are getting copied over to live or not.


Quoting Vitore
Most of the other serious prop firms operate in a way that if in doubt - the MT4 log matters.
-I really doubt that, to be honest. If I were in the prop's position, I would rely more on what the servers say, over what your log says, because the chance that the data (or metatrader) is compromised or altered in some way is more likely than the server being compromised, and also because what the server sees will be more relevant since it will be more realistic to what the firm is actually able to achieve in terms of profit/loss, since that data likely would need to get moved around.


Quoting Vitore
Only MFF triggered the breach other accounts with other prop firms were ok because they are transparent and do not shuffle my orders.
-This does not seem relevant if you understand that each firm's servers may handle data differently.

Put simply, this is like paying a bill and sending the check in the mail. The recipient claims that the check was late, but you swear that you mailed the check with plenty of time for it to not be late. The recipient claims, however, that their post office did not receive the check until after the due date.

Maybe the post office did not really transfer your mail to a sorting warehouse first, but that is irrelevant. And maybe UPS or FedEx would have delivered it on time, but that is also irrelevant. The recipient of the check will go by what their post office says and what they see on their end, not what you or your post office says.

Similarly, if others send in checks that are late, then they should all be treated the same way in order to keep things fair. They knew the rules. It is really that simple. If the recipient of the check decides to honor the postmark date, then that is their choice, but certainly not their obligation.
  • #543
  • Feb 7, 2023 11:09am Feb 7, 2023 11:09am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Well, but you are assuming that your trades are not getting copied. If MFF elects to copy trades over, even selectively or collectively, then they have to rely on what is realistic in terms of what profits and losses can be generated. They MUST rely on their servers in order to do that fairly. I think, to be fair, all trader's trades should be treated the same way, whether they are getting copied over to live or not. {quote}-I really doubt that, to be honest. If I were in the prop's position, I would rely more on what the servers say, over...
I get all of your points. And I agree that the fact I did not breach the rule with other prop firms is not relevant. But my point was - they at least did NOT reshuffle my orders.

To be honest, I don't care what any prop firm decides to do with my trades. But I expect they set up transparent rules and transparent processes.

Take the profit split as an example. The profit split is ALWAYS based on the balance as shown in the MT4. Does it mean the prop firm was able to generate the same profit? Of course not. But in this case, all decided to take the MT4 account balance as the refence. It is transparent and fair. They may add markups to their price feeds, they may add artificial slippage, they may do whatever they want to make your trading less profitable. Their whole price feed might be made up artificially and far from reality. But you can see it all in the MT4 terminal and it is recorded in the log. And what you see (in MT4) is what you get (before the split)

So why they don't apply the same principle to the order execution? Why other prop firms execute the orders in the same sequence as they appear in MT4 log? Because they may not execute them at all. So the MT4 log is the only source of transparent information about the account balance history and the sequence of orders.

As soon as they start shuffling the orders arguing that their backend servers executed it differently - that all may be true but it is totally irrelevant IF THEY WANT TO STAY TRANSPARENT. It is like if your MT4 account indicated you made 10k profit and the prop firm said - sorry our servers had outage, we couldn't pass your trades to the market, and so you get nothing. Actually your account is now suspended for inactivity. Would you be ok with such explanation? Would you still justify such approach as well? I doubt that. But in principle it is no different to shuffling the sequence of orders and arguing it is because our servers executed it differently. BS.
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #544
  • Feb 7, 2023 11:12am Feb 7, 2023 11:12am
Quoting MyForexFunds
{quote} Hello mirrfx, I have checked the account number you have provided and find out that although there were different trades, there is another account which belongs to someone else has the same trades with the same timestamp and the similarity is above a certain threshold instead of just couple trades. As it is clearly stated in our website rules, copy trading is forbidden in our company. I am seeing that the trades are executed by an expert advisor. It is also clearly explained that if you are using an EA, the trade signals must come from your...
Please tell me what part of the allegedly similar trades of two traders are similar? Check all the timestamp and you will see all are different.The frequency of trades also not same.The lotsize are not same either! So what similar things you see besides the same symbol pairs?What is the guarantee that the supposedly other trader trade datas are not genuine because at my end i am using that self account and had been getting regular payout, for the last more than three months without change in any of my strategy,till you suspend it?
-CKB
  • #545
  • Feb 7, 2023 11:19am Feb 7, 2023 11:19am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I get all of your points. And I agree that the fact I did not breach the rule with other prop firms is not relevant. But my point was - they at least did NOT reshuffle my orders. To be honest, I don't care what any prop firm decides to do with my trades. But I expect they set up transparent rules and transparent processes. Take the profit split as an example. The profit split is ALWAYS based on the balance as shown in the MT4. Does it mean the prop firm was able to generate the same profit? Of course not. But in this case, all decided to...
you are right.We trade prop firm and agree to have profit split on the basis of dashboard display of mt4 datas.The way the OP is responding seems like he had an interest other than a trader's interest otherwise whats the point to defend a prop firm or reply to it even before the thread starter reply to it.
-CKB
  • #546
  • Feb 7, 2023 11:24am Feb 7, 2023 11:24am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}If the recipient of the check decides to honor the postmark date, then that is their choice, but certainly not their obligation.
It's not the obligation but it is exactly what the transparent and trustworthy companies do. And my whole case is just about that - what MFF really wants to be
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #547
  • Feb 7, 2023 12:12pm Feb 7, 2023 12:12pm
Quoting Vitore
And what you see (in MT4) is what you get (before the split) So why they don't apply the same principle to the order execution?
-I think, honoring the profit is one thing, but to honor order execution is another matter. As you say, they will pay out traders whatever profit they earn, even if the real situation is different (even if their live accounts did not produce the exact, same profit). They do not have to do this, but maybe it makes the most sense from a PR perspective. However, to honor execution times as they are seen in MT4 in lieu of how they are seen on their server would be an unwise policy because people might be able to abuse it. If it is possible to do so, then it seems reasonable for the firm to rely on the server data.

Quoting Vitore
Why other prop firms execute the orders in the same sequence as they appear in MT4 log?
-You are assuming that they do. You cannot know for sure about all cases. But even so, it does not matter if we agree that each prop may handle server data differently.

Quoting Vitore
It is like if your MT4 account indicated you made 10k profit and the prop firm said - sorry our servers had outage, we couldn't pass your trades to the market, and so you get nothing. Actually your account is now suspended for inactivity. Would you be ok with such explanation?
-Of course not. But this is not the same issue, and I believe that most prop firms would correct an issue like this and make it right with traders, as MFF has done in the past, about similar issues.


Quoting Vitore
But in principle it is no different to shuffling the sequence of orders and arguing it is because our servers executed it differently.
-To be fair, I do not think that any deliberate reshuffling occurred. If you really believe that, then you should not trade with MFF. If, however, you understand that such 'reshuffling' may occur as a result of technical reasons, then you should also be understanding that MFF would need to make a decision about whether or not to honor your log file (which can be altered), and in doing so, would likely have to honor everyone else that claims to have a similar issue going forward, which could potentially expose them to great risk.

Quoting Vitore
It's not the obligation but it is exactly what the transparent and trustworthy companies do. And my whole case is just about that - what MFF really wants to be
-I understand your sentiment. But what kind of precedent does it set? What kind of potential, long-term risk would this create for MFF if they honor everyone's metatrader logs and ignore their own server data? As I say, I do not understand it well enough, but common sense tells me that the server data should govern.
  • #548
  • Feb 7, 2023 12:12pm Feb 7, 2023 12:12pm
Quoting mirrfx
Please tell me what part of the allegedly similar trades of two traders are similar? Check all the timestamp and you will see all are different.The frequency of trades also not same.The lotsize are not same either! So what similar things you see besides the same symbol pairs?
-Bro, you are busted. Those trades are clearly being copied. Just because you have set slightly different parameters for the trades does not mean anything.
  • #549
  • Feb 7, 2023 12:19pm Feb 7, 2023 12:19pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Bro, you are busted. Those trades are clearly being copied. Just because you have set slightly different parameters for the trades does not mean anything.
No bro.Your opinion that i copy trades does not matter because i dont.I trust mff so much before this episodes but their sudden suspension of account raise a certain doubt because as i state in my earlier post(you better read it properly!)i have been using the same strategy since the start.You have no proof and right to accuse me that i copy trades.You certainly have an interest in mff other than just a trade.Are you even a trader of mff?
-CKB
  • #550
  • Feb 7, 2023 12:24pm Feb 7, 2023 12:24pm
Quoting mirrfx
You have no proof and right to accuse me that i copy trades.
-The proof is in the screenshots that MFF posted. Anyone can see it. I might take your side if it were just a few trades here and there, but images show an obvious correlation.
  • #551
  • Feb 7, 2023 12:28pm Feb 7, 2023 12:28pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-The proof is in the screenshots that MFF posted. Anyone can see it. I might take your side if it were just a few trades here and there, but images show an obvious correlation.
you certainly do not read my earlier post.heres below...

"Please tell me what part of the allegedly similar trades of two traders are similar? Check all the timestamp and you will see all are different.The frequency of trades also not same.The lotsize are not same either! So what similar things you see besides the same symbol pairs?What is the guarantee that the supposedly other trader trade datas are not genuine because at my end i am using that self account and had been getting regular payout, for the last more than three months without change in any of my strategy,till you suspend it?"
-CKB
-CKB
  • #552
  • Feb 7, 2023 12:42pm Feb 7, 2023 12:42pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I think, honoring the profit is one thing, but to honor order execution is another matter. As you say, they will pay out traders whatever profit they earn, even if the real situation is different (even if their live accounts did not produce the exact, same profit). They do not have to do this, but maybe it makes the most sense from a PR perspective. However, to honor execution times as they are seen in MT4 in lieu of how they are seen on their server would be an unwise policy because people might be able to abuse it. If it is possible to...
Honestly, I don't think that this discussion is relevant unless you are a MFF employee. I don't know why you decided to defend them here. But it is your right to say your opinion. As is my right to say how I see the things and that I disagree with the way MFF assessed my case and apparently treats their traders in general.

If I were running a prop firm I might have an understanding for such an approach. But I'm not. I'm trading for one and I expect them to be fair, transparent and trustworthy. So far they're neither of that for me. Now let's give the real MFF representative a chance to have their word please.
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #553
  • Feb 7, 2023 12:45pm Feb 7, 2023 12:45pm
Quoting mirrfx
"Please tell me what part of the allegedly similar trades of two traders are similar? Check all the timestamp and you will see all are different.The frequency of trades also not same.The lotsize are not same either!
-The timestamps are not all different, and most that are, are only off by about 1 second. Just because you traded with slightly different parameters means nothing.
  • #554
  • Feb 7, 2023 12:52pm Feb 7, 2023 12:52pm
Quoting Vitore
Honestly, I don't think that this discussion is relevant unless you are a MFF employee.
-I disagree.

Quoting Vitore
I don't know why you decided to defend them here.
-I am being objective. As to why I am responding here, it is because I disagree with you. You are basically asking for a pass because, as a trader, you did not think to close out your positions in a safe manner, and now you are trying to claim that this as some kind of transparency and fairness effort instead of owning your mistake and moving on.

Quoting Vitore
Now let's give the real MFF representative a chance to have their word please.
-This is a public forum. Anyone is free to share their opinions here. If you wanted to keep things private, then you could have done that, but you chose to make this a public matter.
  • #555
  • Feb 7, 2023 1:04pm Feb 7, 2023 1:04pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-The timestamps are not all different, and most that are, are only off by about 1 second. Just because you traded with slightly different parameters means nothing.
you are just comparing my true data with their fake datas.Even with their fake datas,they cant make them similar and you gonna believe that ;d.Just read properly ALL the statements i made and not just selectively pick up.Btw i have decided to stop trading with MFF permanently.I do not do business with firms who doesnt care much about transparency.One day anyone can be scammed.There are other grievances against mff also while i was trading with them.Their payout becomes more and more late as time goes by,multiple times they TRY to profit-split 80% whereas i was eleigible for 85% and i had to write multiple emails only then they corrected saying dashboard wasnt updated(multiple times),they postponed my scaling up then when next payout due they suspend my account.So many inconsistencies in their actions to consider it as genuine mistakes on their part.I am not trying to negatively publicise them but just airing their shocking consistent-mistakes for other traders to be aware off.Btw i had earned good amount while time was good but thats it..
-CKB
  • #556
  • Feb 7, 2023 1:08pm Feb 7, 2023 1:08pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-The timestamps are not all different, and most that are, are only off by about 1 second. Just because you traded with slightly different parameters means nothing.
And please stop your BS observation..
-CKB
  • #557
  • Feb 7, 2023 1:11pm Feb 7, 2023 1:11pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I am being objective. As to why I am responding here, it is because I disagree with you. You are basically asking for a pass because, as a trader, you did not think to close out your positions in a safe manner, and now you are trying to claim that this as some kind of transparency and fairness effort instead of owning your mistake and moving on.
No you're not objective because you lack the MFF insight. All your comments are just your assumptions of how things might work inside a prop firm let alone MFF in particular. Same as I am not (and cannot be) objective as my statements are based on my assumptions. Therefore I asked the MFF representative (not you) to share their view (not yours) on my case.

Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-This is a public forum. Anyone is free to share their opinions here. If you wanted to keep things private, then you could have done that, but you chose to make this a public matter.
You have every right to keep posting in this forum as I already stated. Please read my posts carefully. But your comments stay just subjective comments of a person who doesn't have enough information to make an objective conclusion
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #558
  • Feb 7, 2023 1:20pm Feb 7, 2023 1:20pm
Quoting mirrfx
you are just comparing my true data with their fake datas. ... Btw i had earned good amount while time was good ... Btw i have decided to stop trading with MFF permanently.
-So, when things were going well, and MFF did not realize that you were copying someone else's trades in order to succeed, you made a lot of money with them. But now that you have been caught, and you know that you can no longer get away with it, you claim that MFF is, all-of-a-sudden, going out of their way to fabricate trading documents in order to save a tiny amount of money? As such, you have 'decided' to stop trading with them permanently? Is that about right?

Quoting mirrfx
And please stop your BS observation..
-It seems understandable why you would not like people to point out the obvious.

It does not matter if it is you, Vitore or someone else... I will always have a trader's back if I believe that their claims are legitimate. But if I disagree with someone, I will also speak my opinion about it.
  • #559
  • Feb 7, 2023 1:27pm Feb 7, 2023 1:27pm
Quoting Vitore
No you're not objective because you lack the MFF insight. All your comments are just your assumptions of how things might work inside a prop firm let alone MFF in particular.
-I am being objective. Just because I claim to not understand the inner-workings (which I already admitted to that fact), does not mean that I cannot be objective. Because even if I do not understand the inner-workings, I can still establish an opinion that the server data should govern, regardless of how you or I believe that it works or should work. I have stated my reasoning why, objectively. Just because my opinion differs from yours, does not make it subjective in nature. I established my opinion based on commonsense and logic.


Quoting Vitore
But your comments stay just subjective comments of a person who doesn't have enough information to make an objective conclusion
-I disagree. See above.
  • #560
  • Feb 7, 2023 1:35pm Feb 7, 2023 1:35pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-So, when things were going well, and MFF did not realize that you were copying someone else's trades in order to succeed, you made a lot of money with them. But now that you have been caught, and you know that you can no longer get away with it, you claim that MFF is, all-of-a-sudden, going out of their way to fabricate trading documents in order to save a tiny amount of money? As such, you have 'decided' to stop trading with them permanently? Is that about right? {quote}-It seems understandable why you would not like people to point out...
why should anyone depend on you to have their back when you do not show any part of your supposedly trading experiences?What kind of trading achievement you have more than me or other successful traders?Zero perhaps.So you are nothing but a stooge of mff who has zero experiences of trading but clearly earns little commision to hide their non-transparent behaviours.You better disclose your association with mff openly and earns a little bit more legitimacy to your opinions if at all or just shut up and let the real mff representative do the talk..
-CKB
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