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Low Risk, High Reward Trading Experiment

  • #3,281
  • Edited 11:07am Apr 28, 2007 10:52am | Edited 11:07am
merlin,
I agree with everything you said there. I was one of the people who defended itme in his journal from others who wanted to disrupt it. I often told people they had to stop heckling itme, because their point was made, but that it was itme's journal. In fact, it was I who pulled itme's journal originally out of the classified section and asked him if he wanted it in the journal section. He has been given every oportunity from more than just merlin. It was all fine when itme was expressing his method of trading and discussing trading, as in the journal, but then all these hateful threads afterward had nothing to do with trading. I feel a bit betrayed for offering defense. So I can say, having seen both sides, a bigot is a bigot and this is not about a personality conflict, It is about a person with a political agenda, not a trading agenda.
  • #3,282
  • Apr 28, 2007 1:29pm Apr 28, 2007 1:29pm
Quoting itme
p.s. - my last "horrible" , "inflammatory" post merely stated that if the US government decides to drop 450 nuclear bombs on Iran, that might adversely impact the value of the USD.
ya know statements like this really put a rock in my stomach. not only are you spreading a political agenda and hate on a trading forum, but you are trying to hide it. and you have succeeded in fooling most people. but i am not fooled for one second.

for those who are fooled by itme, let me point out his biggotry for you...

about two months ago, we had an american member who put a picture of the Prophet Muhammad as his avatar. this was the cartoon picture that caused lots of controversy because there is a bomb in the Prophet’s turbine. when we asked this guy to change his avatar, he refused. and you know what this bigot said to us? he said "its just a picture of a guy with a bomb on his head, thats how i feel when i am trading.". ha! sounds like a VERY familiar attitude, no?

still not convinced?? ok, lets take a look at one of itme's statements...
Quoting itme
Christianity is historically the religion that has and continues to be correlated with the majority of imperialism, slavery, murder, torture, oppression, genocide, etc.
doesnt sound like a bigot does it? well lets change "Christianity" to some other religions, and see if it sounds like a bigot to you...
Quote
The Jewish religion has and continues to be correlated with the majority of imperialism, slavery, murder, torture, oppression, genocide, etc.
Quote
The Muslim religion has and continues to be correlated with the majority of imperialism, slavery, murder, torture, oppression, genocide, etc.

hmmm, doesnt sound so nice does it? itme’s statement doesnt bother me because i am a Christian (im not), it bothers me because it is intolerant, ignorant, and self righteous - all the hallmarks of a bigot.
Relax and be happy.
  • #3,283
  • Apr 29, 2007 4:47am Apr 29, 2007 4:47am
Its fair enough banning people for a political opinion if you want a simple trading forum with no frills attached.

Clearly Itme has violated the wizards law, successfully offended him and presumeably others and as such it's Merlin's right to ban the guy.

Personally I find nothing offensive in his posts and have found most of them rewarding and stimulating, if a little baffling at times. However as i'm British and secular with no particular axe to grind this isn't terribly surprising.

What saddens me a little is that this journal has been lost.

It is primarily a trading journal, painstakingly kept up to date over many weeks. It describes, outlines and discusses the workings of a complex, possibly fruitful trading method, as well as the trading psychology of its creator.

In short it is exactly the sort of thread this forum was presumeably created to represent.

To me banning it is like banning The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money because John Maynard Keynes happened to be gay.

It's fair enough preventing Keynes from entering The Most Holy Order of St Benedicts because being actively gay happens to contravene its rules.

This should not mean, however, that Brother Thomas should be prevented from reading Keynes' theory in a candle lit corner of its cloister.

I'm not comparing Itme to Keynes, obviously, but pointing out the difference between the fruits of a mans labour and the intellectual predisposition of its creator. A magnificent sculpture chisled by a tyrant is still a magnificent sculpture nontheless.

It's an act of intellectual vandalism to remove a mans works because of a mans thoughts.

Deleting this thread is a detriment to this forum. Banning a provocateur is not.
quote of the day: . It's like deja-vu all over again
  • #3,284
  • Apr 29, 2007 5:46am Apr 29, 2007 5:46am
seriously though...his journal is a bunch of fluff

its like wave theory and then all this metaphysical stephen hawking BS..and then it turned into news trading.

WHAT SOLID CONCRETE RULE FOR TRADING HAS HE CREATED? WHAT RULE HAS HE CREATED THAT SAYS WHEN TO BUY, WHEN TO SELL, WHEN TO MOVE STOPS? HAVE THESE RULES WORKED CONSISTENTLY?

if he has, please let me know, because i feel like i am missing something here
  • #3,285
  • Apr 29, 2007 9:04am Apr 29, 2007 9:04am
... But still fail to see the system?...

Where is the *system*? A lot of post, quite some interesting information, but no sign of a *system*...

Being Dutch I donīt get offended or agitated easily on either religion or politics, but I still have to agree that ItMe crossed the line between what is normally considered acceptable and what isn't several times (and believe me, I do not feel *any* urge or need to defend the Bush administration!).

Also being hateful towards other members, be they mods, owners, normal members or n00bs, is never acceptable...

Itme IMHO is guilty of all of the above...
  • #3,286
  • Apr 29, 2007 11:05am Apr 29, 2007 11:05am
Quoting Gmak
It's an act of intellectual vandalism to remove a mans works because of a mans thoughts.

Deleting this thread is a detriment to this forum. Banning a provocateur is not.
great post, i agree with you completely. we will move this thread back to the journal forum when this issue settles down. the reason it is in the Bin now is because i dont want this discussion over itme's ban to litter the "New Posts". this kind of thing is a big distraction from our purpose here at FF, and that is to trade and make $$$.
Relax and be happy.
  • #3,287
  • Apr 30, 2007 12:49am Apr 30, 2007 12:49am
Quoting clam61
seriously though...his journal is a bunch of fluff

its like wave theory and then all this metaphysical stephen hawking BS..and then it turned into news trading.

WHAT SOLID CONCRETE RULE FOR TRADING HAS HE CREATED? WHAT RULE HAS HE CREATED THAT SAYS WHEN TO BUY, WHEN TO SELL, WHEN TO MOVE STOPS? HAVE THESE RULES WORKED CONSISTENTLY?

if he has, please let me know, because i feel like i am missing something here
In a 2 month period when I was recording every trade there was a profit of 3518 pips, yes you read right, 3518 pips in 2 months. That was using my exit strategy it would be very silly not to take profits if you are say 100 pips up and he called a 120 pip run.

His calls often came well in advance of the trade, the most difficult thing to do I'm sure you'll agree.
  • #3,288
  • Apr 30, 2007 2:05am Apr 30, 2007 2:05am
Quoting Vantage
In a 2 month period when I was recording every trade there was a profit of 3518 pips, yes you read right, 3518 pips in 2 months. That was using my exit strategy it would be very silly not to take profits if you are say 100 pips up and he called a 120 pip run.

His calls often came well in advance of the trade, the most difficult thing to do I'm sure you'll agree.

two things to consider. pips mean nothing by themselves. what were the total # of pips at risk during each trade?


furthermore, 2 months means nothing. even the simplest of methods, such as bagovino, work during certain market environments.
  • #3,289
  • Apr 30, 2007 2:47am Apr 30, 2007 2:47am
Quoting clam61
two things to consider. pips mean nothing by themselves. what were the total # of pips at risk during each trade?


furthermore, 2 months means nothing. even the simplest of methods, such as bagovino, work during certain market environments.
By the very nature of his thread, low risk high reward, the potential gain had to far outweigh the potential risk on the trade.

Two months were the period I tracked every single trade yes thats a short time but the thread was around for a long time and judging from the comments EW traders were impressed with his trading knowledge.
  • #3,290
  • Apr 30, 2007 9:21am Apr 30, 2007 9:21am
Quoting Vantage
By the very nature of his thread, low risk high reward, the potential gain had to far outweigh the potential risk on the trade.

Two months were the period I tracked every single trade yes thats a short time but the thread was around for a long time and judging from the comments EW traders were impressed with his trading knowledge.

well if its successful then thats great. i hvae been followng this since last year. i remember last year there were many bad calls that were edited later.

and it doesnt really matter if people are impressed. there are people around here that will be impressed by just about any system you show them that has made a few bucks
  • #3,291
  • Apr 30, 2007 9:33am Apr 30, 2007 9:33am
What is more sad is that senior members like DaveXXX or whatever his nick was and other regular posters of this website who pretended to be Itme's friend is hiding now and don't have enough courage to protest this rule of censorships or shall I call it dictatorship.

Noone I think in here agrees with mods decision other than mods themselves.
  • #3,292
  • Apr 30, 2007 10:49am Apr 30, 2007 10:49am
Quoting clam61
itme had qualms about giving me advice because i told him i worked for an aerospace company and he thus deemed me potentially evil because i might have dealings with the defense industry
WHAT IS THE POST NUMBER WHERE ITME STATES HE DEEMS YOU POTENTIALLY EVIL.i WOULD LIKE TO READ IT BECAUSE IT COULD POTENTIALLY CHANGE MY OPINION OF HIM?
  • #3,293
  • Apr 30, 2007 2:22pm Apr 30, 2007 2:22pm
... And I am pretty sure that this would *not* have been done on a public thread anyway!
  • #3,294
  • Edited 2:50pm Apr 30, 2007 2:39pm | Edited 2:50pm
Quoting clam61
well if its successful then thats great. i hvae been followng this since last year. i remember last year there were many bad calls that were edited later.

and it doesnt really matter if people are impressed. there are people around here that will be impressed by just about any system you show them that has made a few bucks

I don't think it's particularly pertinent whether or not Itme's journal is ultimately a record of success or failure, nor whether people are impressed or not with his prose style.

One can take inspiration from an ignominious failure just as easily as from an outright success. What this thread shows best, i believe, are the thoughts behind the systems creation and the myriad ideas and postulations which then funded its development. It's an indepth account of the growth of a traders psychology. Even if it may stray from the point at times, or morph into something unrecogniseable from its original blueprint it is nevertheless an excellent document to learn from. Especially for avoiding pitfalls and providing points to consider in the furthering of ones own system.

I find it difficult to fathom why Itme should have denied you help clam61, however I find it equally baffling as to why you should request it from a person whose thoughts and methods you seem to hold in such little regard.

I don't want to start an argument with you, it isn't the reason why either of us are here, but if you find nothing of merit on this thread and have nothing positive to say about its creator, then why are you posting here at all? Just leave it and follow paths that appear to be more fruitful.

The current character assasination and rubbishing of Itme's trading journal are as unworthy of you as any of the political rantings Itme has been accused of. Its all the more shameful because Itme is no longer at liberty to post and defend himself or his system.

What are you looking to achieve other than ignoble revenge at being wronged and insulted?

Also to claim that people interested in this thread or excited by the prospects of a new untested system are somehow participating in a form of myopic genuflection are wide of the mark.

This forum doesn't just comprise of the infinitely successful alone. Most are just starting out and, like you, in need of help and guidance. Discovering a system you thought was good is actually less handy than a one wheel moped is part of the personal growth of a trader and being impressed with a system that exhibits signs of profitability is clearly infinitely preferrable to one that shows no signs at all.

We all follow our own paths and we all start out from a position of error. If your wanderings have turned out more rewarding than those of the majority then by all means explain to others what you have learned, even if you haven't post your mistakes so that others can avoid them.

If you can't,won't or haven't then you are just as much a member of the unenlightened as the rest of us and as such and like me certainly a less useful contributer to this site than Itme was, for all his shortcomings.
quote of the day: . It's like deja-vu all over again
  • #3,295
  • Apr 30, 2007 2:53pm Apr 30, 2007 2:53pm
Quote
What is more sad is that senior members like DaveXXX or whatever his nick was and other regular posters of this website who pretended to be Itme's friend is hiding now and don't have enough courage to protest this rule of censorships or shall I call it dictatorship.

Noone I think in here agrees with mods decision other than mods themselves.

you assume too much. i agree with them. by throwing out terms like dictatorship you are cheapening the meaning of it. it's merlin's privately owned forum, he can do what he wants with it. we are not required to attend this forum.

Quoting JAKOBEN
WHAT IS THE POST NUMBER WHERE ITME STATES HE DEEMS YOU POTENTIALLY EVIL.i WOULD LIKE TO READ IT BECAUSE IT COULD POTENTIALLY CHANGE MY OPINION OF HIM?
it was in a PM, not a post
  • #3,296
  • Apr 30, 2007 2:56pm Apr 30, 2007 2:56pm
Quoting merlin
we will move this thread back to the journal forum when this issue settles down. the reason it is in the Bin now is because i dont want this discussion over itme's ban to litter the "New Posts". this kind of thing is a big distraction from our purpose here at FF, and that is to trade and make $$$.
great, now I understand completely.
quote of the day: . It's like deja-vu all over again
  • #3,297
  • Apr 30, 2007 3:01pm Apr 30, 2007 3:01pm
ill be honest, i just skimmed over your post but ill answer the most outrageous portions quickly.

1. im not seeking revenge on itme. in the beginning i was interested in wave theory and because it seemed he had good knowledge of the topic i PM'd him, also offered in helping him develop his trading software if he could share some of his unique insights. i said i worked in software for boeing and had good experience in development. of course as the thread progressed his trading track record didn't seem too hot.

2. im not really discussing whether he should or should not have been kicked out. im just making a comment about the itme worshipping and how it seems a bit overblown considering he has not ever produced anything of value. an intellectual discussion? maybe...but something that can help you make money consistently? i have not seen it.

3. it doesnt really matter whether itme is here or not. im not making any claim like "itme smells". im just saying "hey...i've been following this thread and I have not seen any consistency in good trades or methedology. has anyone else?"

4. and with a person touting about free speech and free ideas, etc. why am I poo pooed for simply questioning itme? a bit hypocritical to tell me to not make comments. purple might say that's "censorship" and that you're being a "dictator"

Quoting Gmak
I don't think it's particularly pertinent whether or not Itme's journal is ultimately a record of success or failure, nor whether people are impressed or not with his prose style.

One can take inspiration from an ignominious failure just as easily as from an outright success. What this thread shows best, i believe, are the thoughts behind the systems creation and the myriad ideas and postulations which then funded its development. It's an indepth account of the growth of a traders psychology. Even if it may stray from the point at times, or morph into something unrecogniseable from its original blueprint it is nevertheless an excellent document to learn from. Especially for avoiding pitfalls and providing points to consider in the furthering of ones own system.

I find it difficult to fathom why Itme should have denied you help clam61, however I find it equally baffling as to why you should request it from a person whose thoughts and methods you seem to hold in such little regard.

I don't want to start an argument with you, it isn't the reason why either of us are here, but if you find nothing of merit on this thread and have nothing positive to say about its creator, then why are you posting here at all? Just leave it and follow paths that appear to be more fruitful.

The current character assasination and rubbishing of Itme's trading journal are as unworthy of you as any of the political rantings Itme has been accused of. Its all the more shameful because Itme is no longer at liberty to post and defend himself or his system.

What are you looking to achieve other than ignoble revenge at being wronged and insulted?

Also to claim that people interested in this thread or excited by the prospects of a new untested system are somehow participating in a form of myopic genuflection are wide of the mark.

This forum doesn't just comprise of the infinitely successful alone. Most are just starting out and, like you, in need of help and guidance. Discovering a system you thought was good is actually less handy than a one wheel moped is part of the personal growth of a trader and being impressed with a system that exhibits signs of profitability is clearly infinitely preferrable to one that shows no signs at all.

We all follow our own paths and we all start out from a position of error. If your wanderings have turned out more rewarding than those of the majority then by all means explain to others what you have learned, even if you haven't post your mistakes so that others can avoid them.

If you can't,won't or haven't then you are just as much a member of the unenlightened as the rest of us and as such and like me certainly a less useful contributer to this site than Itme was, for all his shortcomings.
  • #3,298
  • Apr 30, 2007 3:58pm Apr 30, 2007 3:58pm
sorry.

I thought phrases like 'its just fluff', 'it's just bull shit' and posts such as 'how a thesaurus can make you seem intelligent' pointed out a certain lack of nicety on your part.

The first two phrases clearly rubbish his thread and journal, wantonly, and without any regard for the effort of thought and action which must have gone into producing it.

The third rubbishes his character for merely using big words to describe little things. Surely everyone is allowed their own individual style.

You are making claims like 'itme smells'. You are saying itme is talking bullshit, his theories and works are dismissed as 'fluff' and, basically, you are claiming he is a pompous asshole.

So which of my points are more outrageous than yours ?

As far as I can see none of the above is productive questioning of a system.
It's just generalised pettiness.

Since Itme is no longer about, I find this sort of post distasteful.

If I thought you had just been questioning his system I wouldn't have been moved to post.

Personally I haven't followed this thread until about a month ago, when I was pouring over it and finding it interesting. I don't have any axe to grind and if Itme abused his membership of this forum, congratulations to Merlin for having the balls to remove him.

What I see here though is someone being offended and only then posting negativities after the fact, asking questions of a system only after its main protagonist has in fact been ousted.

I'm not some press officer of The Itme Stalwarts just a poster like you.

This is a trading journal, just like StevieT's except more theoretical and is more about the creation of a system than the utilisation of a fully created one. I assume that means it is a document of both success's and failures invariably met along the way.

As for your final point

Quoting clam61
and with a person touting about free speech and free ideas, etc. why am I poo pooed for simply questioning itme? a bit hypocritical to tell me to not make comments. purple might say that's "censorship" and that you're being a "dictator"
The fact remains you are not questioning itme, you are questioning a phantom no longer able to answer.
quote of the day: . It's like deja-vu all over again
  • #3,299
  • Apr 30, 2007 9:25pm Apr 30, 2007 9:25pm
you're first three or four paragraphs are a strawman. i never said i was nice. i just said i was questioning the actual worth of this whole thread. whether i throw in some sarcasm or not does not take away from what i am saying. maybe you don't like it, but we aren't discussing what you do or do not like. we are questioning whether it is right for me to raise these question.

it really doesn't matter if itme is not around, i can still question his work. it doesnt make the discussion any less important or immoral. don't people question the work of researchers such as...freud? isn't he questioned after his death? not that i am comparing itme to freud, but you get the idea.

i dont see why you think i am offended...why...because he said i could possible be a bad person because i work in aerospace?! haha. jesus...

and i actually have brought up things to itme at least twice publicly on this thread. you can go ahead and search for it if you want. i basically brought up the futility of his forecasting and research

Quoting Gmak
sorry.

I thought phrases like 'its just fluff', 'it's just bull shit' and posts such as 'how a thesaurus can make you seem intelligent' pointed out a certain lack of nicety on your part.

The first two phrases clearly rubbish his thread and journal, wantonly, and without any regard for the effort of thought and action which must have gone into producing it.

The third rubbishes his character for merely using big words to describe little things. Surely everyone is allowed their own individual style.

You are making claims like 'itme smells'. You are saying itme is talking bullshit, his theories and works are dismissed as 'fluff' and, basically, you are claiming he is a pompous asshole.

So which of my points are more outrageous than yours ?

As far as I can see none of the above is productive questioning of a system.
It's just generalised pettiness.

Since Itme is no longer about, I find this sort of post distasteful.

If I thought you had just been questioning his system I wouldn't have been moved to post.

Personally I haven't followed this thread until about a month ago, when I was pouring over it and finding it interesting. I don't have any axe to grind and if Itme abused his membership of this forum, congratulations to Merlin for having the balls to remove him.

What I see here though is someone being offended and only then posting negativities after the fact, asking questions of a system only after its main protagonist has in fact been ousted.

I'm not some press officer of The Itme Stalwarts just a poster like you.

This is a trading journal, just like StevieT's except more theoretical and is more about the creation of a system than the utilisation of a fully created one. I assume that means it is a document of both success's and failures invariably met along the way.

As for your final point



The fact remains you are not questioning itme, you are questioning a phantom no longer able to answer.
  • #3,300
  • May 1, 2007 4:20pm May 1, 2007 4:20pm
Quoting Gmak
The fact remains you are not questioning itme, you are questioning a phantom no longer able to answer.
Itme is NOT A PHANTOM, (s)he apparently choses not to reply... As a matter of fact (s)he was viewing this very thread just when I started typing this reply!...

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