Ever think you are loosing it? | Forex Factory

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Ever think you are loosing it?

  • #1
  • First Post: Apr 26, 2007 6:09am Apr 26, 2007 6:09am
hallo traders, I have been trading for almost 5 years, i have a methodology that gives me a consistent income trading, but i am always trying to come up with new systems to compliment anything else in my arsenal. From time to time i find a very good system but the funny thing is, after a few days, i see nothing good about the system. I mean it crumbles to the ground. I have about 30 plus templates in my folders that looked good at some point but no more. Long story short I cannot explain why i go through this. Sometimes i am convinced that i am hallucinating. Anyone else ever go through this.
Welcome to the Layer Cake son!
  • #2
  • Apr 26, 2007 6:55am Apr 26, 2007 6:55am
Quoting wahomeron
hallo traders, I have been trading for almost 5 years, i have a methodology that gives me a consistent income trading, but i am always trying to come up with new systems to compliment anything else in my arsenal. From time to time i find a very good system but the funny thing is, after a few days, i see nothing good about the system. I mean it crumbles to the ground. I have about 30 plus templates in my folders that looked good at some point but no more. Long story short I cannot explain why i go through this. Sometimes i am convinced that i am hallucinating. Anyone else ever go through this.
I did the same when I started, but no more!!
I'll stick with what I'm doing as long as it keeps the account growing. I've tried several of the methods shown on this site and, for whatever reason, couldn't get them to sit comfortably alongside me when I traded.
I dread to think that in 5 years time I'll still be looking for other weapons to add to my arsenal (can't believe you actually used THAT word ).
So forget the search, be happy that you're gaining not losing, and take up stamp-collecting to fill in your spare time.
I wish you a long and successful trading career, and although I'm not an envious person by nature, I do hope in 5 years to be close to your level of success.
  • #3
  • Apr 26, 2007 7:04am Apr 26, 2007 7:04am
Quoting wahomeron
hallo traders, I have been trading for almost 5 years, i have a methodology that gives me a consistent income trading, but i am always trying to come up with new systems to compliment anything else in my arsenal. From time to time i find a very good system but the funny thing is, after a few days, i see nothing good about the system. I mean it crumbles to the ground. I have about 30 plus templates in my folders that looked good at some point but no more. Long story short I cannot explain why i go through this. Sometimes i am convinced that i am hallucinating. Anyone else ever go through this.
Hello Wahomeron,
First time post on FF for me so you must have really struck a chord. I've been at this ~7years on and off(mostly off) and am at the point where I know that i can trade but the lack of a concrete method and tendancy to over analyize seem to parallize me every now and then.

I basically keep coming back to the same thing time and time again which is price. Price action, Horizontal Support/Resistance and the occassional trendline. Like you however i have tons of templates, systems and the like(most recently it was your own 5min thread that sent me off track based on envelopes )

I am a v.competent programmer and have no trouble bolting together a system and usually develop it far enough to consider it potentially profitable but when it comes to trading it.... i fall at the first fence as basically i can't seem to trust anything other than me when i'm pressing the button,

Like you i know there are no magic indicators, no holy grails and definitately no zero loss systems and yet, I can't focus long enough to give anyone thing a chance and have came to the following conclusions.


When i backtest, be it manually or automated i'm are happy to except the inevitable losses that will occur but in realtime this is a different kettle of fish.

Psychology plays a massive part for any trader and i suspect that finding something that sits right with you is more important than the total profitability of it.

Money management and trademanagement are key.



I wonder if one day I just endup automating something and then spend my time looking for other solutions to automate. The discretionary aspect of my trading has both pros and cons and sometimes I just think i should give up...

Looking at your thread you seemed to have it together as others were attempting to "improve" your method you pointed out that there are winners and losers and that it is still profitable.
Take a step back, look at the track record and think... ah well it has drawdowns is there anything i can do that still keeps it simple? Position sizing on winning/losing streaks, exits?

Also i would recommend(for what its worth) only re-evaluating your system/methods after your done for the day, even better set a specific date in your diary to do research and set yourself boundries.. you make your own rules in this game and that is what makes it so tricky.


phew, sorry for the wordcount, how can you tell i've been having a crisis of confidence this week.
Keep up the good work.

Sven
What if the Hokey Cokey is what its all about?
  • #4
  • Apr 26, 2007 7:07am Apr 26, 2007 7:07am
Quoting PeterFM
I did the same when I started, but no more!!
I'll stick with what I'm doing as long as it keeps the account growing. I've tried several of the methods shown on this site and, for whatever reason, couldn't get them to sit comfortably alongside me when I traded.
I dread to think that in 5 years time I'll still be looking for other weapons to add to my arsenal (can't believe you actually used THAT word ).
So forget the search, be happy that you're gaining not losing, and take up stamp-collecting to fill in your spare time.
I wish you a long and successful trading career, and although I'm not an envious person by nature, I do hope in 5 years to be close to your level of success.
thanks for your feed back PeterFM, i did think about arsenal when i was typing it, but you notice it is in small letters. I think maybe i will take your advice and get a new hobby. Maybe learn a new language.
cheers mate.
Welcome to the Layer Cake son!
  • #5
  • Apr 26, 2007 7:12am Apr 26, 2007 7:12am
Quoting wahomeron
thanks for your feed back PeterFM, i did think about arsenal when i was typing it, but you notice it is in small letters. I think maybe i will take your advice and get a new hobby. Maybe learn a new language.
cheers mate.
and good luck in the Cup, I'm an olddddd Crystal Palace fan so don't care who wins the Cup as long as it isn't ManU
  • #6
  • Apr 26, 2007 8:14pm Apr 26, 2007 8:14pm
Quoting PeterFM
and good luck in the Cup, I'm an olddddd Crystal Palace fan so don't care who wins the Cup as long as it isn't ManU
Hallo PeterFM, hope you had a nice day trading or otherwise, i really hope chelsea can bring it home again for the 3rd time, but i have to admit we did not play so well this season. It looks like we have to fight for a cup with ManU at the premiership or the champions league the way things are shaping up. Talk later.
Welcome to the Layer Cake son!
  • #7
  • Apr 26, 2007 8:29pm Apr 26, 2007 8:29pm
Quoting SvenFoster
Hello Wahomeron,
First time post on FF for me so you must have really struck a chord. I've been at this ~7years on and off(mostly off) and am at the point where I know that i can trade but the lack of a concrete method and tendancy to over analyize seem to parallize me every now and then.

I basically keep coming back to the same thing time and time again which is price. Price action, Horizontal Support/Resistance and the occassional trendline. Like you however i have tons of templates, systems and the like(most recently it was your own 5min thread that sent me off track based on envelopes )

I am a v.competent programmer and have no trouble bolting together a system and usually develop it far enough to consider it potentially profitable but when it comes to trading it.... i fall at the first fence as basically i can't seem to trust anything other than me when i'm pressing the button,

Like you i know there are no magic indicators, no holy grails and definitately no zero loss systems and yet, I can't focus long enough to give anyone thing a chance and have came to the following conclusions.


When i backtest, be it manually or automated i'm are happy to except the inevitable losses that will occur but in realtime this is a different kettle of fish.

Psychology plays a massive part for any trader and i suspect that finding something that sits right with you is more important than the total profitability of it.

Money management and trademanagement are key.



I wonder if one day I just endup automating something and then spend my time looking for other solutions to automate. The discretionary aspect of my trading has both pros and cons and sometimes I just think i should give up...

Looking at your thread you seemed to have it together as others were attempting to "improve" your method you pointed out that there are winners and losers and that it is still profitable.
Take a step back, look at the track record and think... ah well it has drawdowns is there anything i can do that still keeps it simple? Position sizing on winning/losing streaks, exits?

Also i would recommend(for what its worth) only re-evaluating your system/methods after your done for the day, even better set a specific date in your diary to do research and set yourself boundries.. you make your own rules in this game and that is what makes it so tricky.


phew, sorry for the wordcount, how can you tell i've been having a crisis of confidence this week.
Keep up the good work.

Sven

hallo there SvenFoster, i realy appreciate your feed back, to see that i am not the only one seeing these things. Like you said, you have to be comfortable with your methodology because at the end of the day you are the one pulling the trigger. I also think i will adapt the idea of reviewing things at the end of a specified period, because i tend to review things only when things go wrong missing out on the more important system characteristics.
Funny thing is theory and practice are two different things but it is kind of hard to see that when all you see is dollar signs when you backtest your ideas, and then later you are asking yourself what happened, then you are back to another idea or an old template. Kinda wears you down.
By the way the word count does not bother me, so go on and spill your thoughts. Cheers.
Welcome to the Layer Cake son!
  • #8
  • Apr 26, 2007 8:51pm Apr 26, 2007 8:51pm
maybe you're just bored. Trading is stressful and boring. I notice traders try to overcome that by creating fun environment for themselves. So maybe searching for something new to add to your 'arsenal' speaks of your urge to escape the normalcy and routine trading life.
But i would just leave the system alone if it keeps you making money and focus on other things in your life to get into (ex sports, religion, etc.) Taht way, you won't fall back on trading when you're bored and might end up screwing your trades.
  • #9
  • Apr 27, 2007 1:51am Apr 27, 2007 1:51am
Quoting hilmy83
maybe you're just bored. Trading is stressful and boring. I notice traders try to overcome that by creating fun environment for themselves. So maybe searching for something new to add to your 'arsenal' speaks of your urge to escape the normalcy and routine trading life.
But i would just leave the system alone if it keeps you making money and focus on other things in your life to get into (ex sports, religion, etc.) Taht way, you won't fall back on trading when you're bored and might end up screwing your trades.

point taken pal , thanks.
Welcome to the Layer Cake son!
  • #10
  • Apr 27, 2007 1:57am Apr 27, 2007 1:57am
Quoting hilmy83
maybe you're just bored. Trading is stressful and boring. I notice traders try to overcome that by creating fun environment for themselves. So maybe searching for something new to add to your 'arsenal' speaks of your urge to escape the normalcy and routine trading life.
But i would just leave the system alone if it keeps you making money and focus on other things in your life to get into (ex sports, religion, etc.) Taht way, you won't fall back on trading when you're bored and might end up screwing your trades.
Hmmm. I sure wish I was bored.
I cannot wait until I am bored.
Stan
  • #11
  • Apr 27, 2007 2:37am Apr 27, 2007 2:37am
Guys i think it is such a process to become a successful trader especially for the majority of us who have no mentor but a raw desire to succeed that when you finally make it, you subconsciously do not believe that you can sit back and make the money. I mean think about all the times your systems and other methodologies bummed . How many times you have seen good backtest results only to see it turn ugly with more data or different time frame or different currency, i could go on.
Anyway, i think this is part of the reason we as traders find our selves in this vicious cycles but i am glad for forums like this where you run into people that put things in perspective and the occasional confusion.
Welcome to the Layer Cake son!
  • #12
  • Apr 27, 2007 3:18am Apr 27, 2007 3:18am
Quoting wahomeron
Guys i think it is such a process to become a successful trader especially for the majority of us who have no mentor but a raw desire to succeed that when you finally make it, you subconsciously do not believe that you can sit back and make the money. I mean think about all the times your systems and other methodologies bummed . How many times you have seen good backtest results only to see it turn ugly with more data or different time frame or different currency, i could go on.
Anyway, i think this is part of the reason we as traders find our selves in this vicious cycles but i am glad for forums like this where you run into people that put things in perspective and the occasional confusion.
so right, Its definately a process and I suspect it never ends.
Every now and then I find myself reaching for a book (and i have many) but there is one that always makes me come out with ideas and its not a technical indicators and system book. Its a trading psychology and discipline type book.

Its the usual stuff, the market doesn't know you exist so everything you feel is down to you, we've all forgotten how to learn, there are no bou etc.. but the most useful thing it says is don't beat yourself up because the trades you make and the mistakes your making. Its just a reflection of your current development. If you recognise it happening then you will stand a better chance of understanding it and even fixing it.

I'd recommend to anyone to read something in that genre and since i'm new here I wont post its name for fear of falling foul of rule#3

stick at it peeps
sven
What if the Hokey Cokey is what its all about?
  • #13
  • Apr 27, 2007 5:05am Apr 27, 2007 5:05am
Quoting SvenFoster
so right, Its definately a process and I suspect it never ends.
I expect to have to re-visit all I've learned once I move from micro-lots, and start trading 'real' money (whenever that will be!)
Quote
Every now and then I find myself reaching for a book (and i have many) but there is one that always makes me come out with ideas and its not a technical indicators and system book. Its a trading psychology and discipline type book.
I'd recommend to anyone to read something in that genre and since i'm new here I wont post its name for fear of falling foul of rule#3

stick at it peeps
sven
My main change came after reading 'Trading in the Zone' by Mark Douglas, and although I didn't expect it to be anything other than the usual American-style 'self-help' book, it actually transformed my mental approach.
Fiji's stuff in the Private Forum helped as well, and I am going to read both the book and Fiji's thoughts again, just to stop me sliding off the straight and narrow.
  • #14
  • Apr 27, 2007 5:35am Apr 27, 2007 5:35am
Quoting PeterFM
I expect to have to re-visit all I've learned once I move from micro-lots, and start trading 'real' money (whenever that will be!) My main change came after reading 'Trading in the Zone' by Mark Douglas, and although I didn't expect it to be anything other than the usual American-style 'self-help' book, it actually transformed my mental approach.
Fiji's stuff in the Private Forum helped as well, and I am going to read both the book and Fiji's thoughts again, just to stop me sliding off the straight and narrow.
Well since you've got squillions of posts and brought it up that book i thinks its safe to say i was refering to his other one..
I'm sure all the books dealing with this area have quite a bit of waffle but there are some real gems as well.

I just want to say that lurking at FF for a while and finally signing up has been a good move for me. There doesn't seem to be all the bickering that normally goes with it and just about every post i've seen is an attempt to be constructive.
great stuff.
What if the Hokey Cokey is what its all about?
  • #15
  • Apr 27, 2007 5:56am Apr 27, 2007 5:56am
Quoting SvenFoster
Well since you've got squillions of posts and brought it up that book i thinks its safe to say i was refering to his other one..
I'm sure all the books dealing with this area have quite a bit of waffle but there are some real gems as well.
Agreed, but sorting the wheat from the chaff can get expensive, but some would say it's part of the learning costs. I feel that nearly all I'll ever need is hidden somewhere on this site, so I'll keep my money to put into my trading account.
Quote
I just want to say that lurking at FF for a while and finally signing up has been a good move for me. There doesn't seem to be all the bickering that normally goes with it and just about every post i've seen is an attempt to be constructive.
great stuff.
Don't you beleive it!! There have been many good posters who've departed for pastures new after too much bickering - here's a good thread to watch a minor battle developing.
Although I don't trade the news, I've enjoyed the clash of personalities in a different area to my own field of interest.
  • #16
  • Apr 27, 2007 9:41am Apr 27, 2007 9:41am
as a standalone trader, you have to perform and you have to compensate for the lack of behavior and mental control...im also running through a lot of methods that i pick up here and there in order to find something...but i know, this is just a routine that keeps me from doing silly thing with my account...its like a compulsive act...probably thats why a lot of traders spend time on running a website or writing blogs or offering educational programms...or ranting on boards...if you are not a scalper, trading cant really keep you busy the whole day...
  • #17
  • Last Post: Jun 11, 2007 3:28am Jun 11, 2007 3:28am
folks i think all indicators are over rated. You ever notice how we get preoccupied with finding the optimum moving average or your choice of indicator and then after you have found it you have a major loosing streak.
I think we spend way too much time trying to find that right MA cross filter or the right oversold level, should i use 80 or 85, maybe 75 is better etc, etc.................... All the while we ignore what price is really doing. In my case I was scared to interpret price alone, I needed an indicator to confirm anything I saw, and by the time that happened, it was too late and price had moved so much I thought it had to reverse from that point onwards. I have since moved closer and closer to price action alone and this is a good place to be at. Stops get obvious, you get more comfortable with yourself because you have a clear picture of the market. I feel no more fear, you know those butterflies you get before you pull the trigger. I don`t worry about getting stopped out, a lot of times this is a sign for a reversal. I have looked at a lot of the systems I have tried to create in the past, and once I input a little price action to confirming trades, I am able to eliminate most of the losers and see other options.
Long story short I have been trading for close to 5 years and I wish I had moved towards this idea from the beginning but then again like so many of us I had no one to mentor me. If you can start to open up to the idea of price action, a lot of things will become very clear. I don`t believe in the holy grail but PRICE ACTION is the closest thing to it.
Welcome to the Layer Cake son!
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