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Hedging/averaging trades without prediction

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 15, 2022 4:33am Oct 15, 2022 4:33am
I will post live trades as they happen, but will start with some basics and build as time goes on, will write short posts as I know long posts put many off...
  • #2
  • Oct 15, 2022 4:47am Oct 15, 2022 4:47am
Subscribed to your thread Champ
WARNING: This post warps space and time in its vicinity.
  • #3
  • Edited 6:11am Oct 15, 2022 5:00am | Edited 6:11am
Quoting Waveskierrob
I will post live trades as they happen, but will start with some basics and build as time goes on, will write short posts as I know long posts put many off...
1. Nothing is set in stone
2. I'm not a guru but I do have some tools and ideas that may help
3. Please no predictions there are other threads for this
4. Try these ideas on DEMO for at least a month
5. BIG bank and trade the smallest lots you can
6. I work on average price and hedging
7. I don't use stoploss but do use target price
8. Market can move in any direction at anytime
9. Don't blame market or news, it is what it is
10. Concentrate on your equity as you bank profits early and let losses run, so profit and loss will mainly be in the red (something to get use to)
11. This is not for everyone and it's not easy
12. Open trades can go on for months
13. Patience is the key
14. Please add your ideas they will probably be better than mine
15. Anyone I find repeatedly inappropriate will be removed (sorry my thread my decision)
16. Happy to post your trades on here but must be live trading only, within a couple of minutes of placing or closing a trade. (Charts are welcome)


That will do for the time being ...
  • #4
  • Oct 15, 2022 5:18am Oct 15, 2022 5:18am
Quoting Waveskierrob
{quote} 1. Nothing is set in stone 2. I'm not a guru but I do have some tools and ideas that may help 3. Please no predictions there are other threads for this 4. Try these ideas on DEMO for at least a month 5. BIG bank and trade the smallest lots you can 6. I work on average price and hedging 7. I don't use stoploss but do use target price 8. Market can move in any direction at anytime 9. Don't blame market or news, it is what it is 10. Concentrate on your equity as you bank profits early and let losses run, so profit and loss will mainly be in...
Finally, i am relieved of giving signals , will be visiting here often.

Good Luck W

regards
bilal
"Exchange of hands"
  • #5
  • Oct 15, 2022 6:35am Oct 15, 2022 6:35am
Quoting Waveskierrob
{quote} 1. Nothing is set in stone 2. I'm not a guru but I do have some tools and ideas that may help 3. Please no predictions there are other threads for this 4. Try these ideas on DEMO for at least a month 5. BIG bank and trade the smallest lots you can 6. I work on average price and hedging 7. I don't use stoploss but do use target price 8. Market can move in any direction at anytime 9. Don't blame market or news, it is what it is 10. Concentrate on your equity as you bank profits early and let losses run, so profit and loss will mainly be in...
17. I have been told that in some countries and brokers you can't have "force stop", you can't have a SHORT and LONG positions open at the same time, there are ways around this, hedging using different pairs
18. Some spreads and commissions are a lot higher with other brokers jus trade the lowest spread pair or indices that's available to you
19. No mocking of spelling or typo's ...as my englis is shit ..
  • #6
  • Edited Oct 16, 2022 6:43am Oct 15, 2022 7:03am | Edited Oct 16, 2022 6:43am
Great thread W - I am really looking forward to learning more about hedging in your style and from the others here.

I am very cautious about hedging as the biggest single loss I’ve ever had (over 5k) was due to a hedge that got out of control.

Since then I’ve had some success with hedging but far from an expert. Even so I think it is better than the ‘death by a thousand cuts’ approach many people adopt by using tight stop losses.

My own approach is simple and was inspired by a book called Profit First by Mike Michalowicz. If every trade has 3 potential outcomes (win, lose or breakeven) of which 2 are negative, stacking the odds against us as traders, this is about trying to bake a positive outcome into every trade so that taking profit becomes a continuous habit.

Take profit first then manage the loss.

I.e take long and short simultaneously, let price move 100 pips or so either way and wait for a reversal to begin, take profit first, then let price retrace and take the loss. For example take profit first +100 pips then take a loss -90 pips = 10 pip profit. If price can retrace more, to 50% or so then even better. If the reversal fails open another position continuing on until the next reversal opportunity, try again, take profit first then deal with the loss. This isn’t as easy as it sounds as you have to judge the reversal, when to take profit, and if you decide to take a countertrend position in anticipation of reversal that can seriously backfire if the reversal fails. My preference is not to take profit until after the reversal and not to take a counter position ‘fade’. In the end, I still believe that the easiest and safest way to trade is by identifying a strong and even trend and then trying to hitch a ride with it.
  • #7
  • Oct 15, 2022 11:47am Oct 15, 2022 11:47am
Cool Thread.
As UK Govt becoming not stable every other days, same goes with GBP pairs.
Hedging may be the way out to this erratic of GBP movement. (not the only way)

BTW.......
Congrats to Waveskie, it is belated wishes, as I was travelling.


This is what me understand how you hedging works, if I'm wrong get me corrective glasses...

Basically enter a Position against your own instantly.
For example the spread is 4 pips for GBP/USD bid is 1134.00 ask is 1134.04 create a market order of entry @ those prices accordingly one short one long.
That's your hedge. ?

Along with that market order put stops and limits as well so the stops and limits are of equal distance from each other.
Basically it limits your losses by hedging your risk and loss to a minimum because one order goes 1 way the other goes the other way equally. Am I getting closer ?

1 will win and the other will lose usually stick to the winning one and build on that position.

That's basically hedging for you in a pipshell (in a nutshell) enjoy.

A successful trader not only knows how to win money but to "control" losses as well.
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I come from the future.
Karen X Mas Bonus 2025 All Time Profit: $15,104
  • #8
  • Oct 15, 2022 12:02pm Oct 15, 2022 12:02pm
Quoting Pat Chiko
Cool Thread. As UK Govt becoming not stable every other days, same goes with GBP pairs. Hedging may be the way out to this erratic of GBP movement. (not the only way) BTW....... Congrats to Waveskie, it is belated wishes, as I was travelling. This is what me understand how you hedging works, if I'm wrong get me corrective glasses... Basically enter a Position against your own instantly. For example the spread is 4 pips for GBP/USD bid is 1134.00 ask is 1134.04 create a market order of entry @ those prices accordingly one short one long. That's your...
You just nutshelled it ...
  • #9
  • Oct 16, 2022 1:52am Oct 16, 2022 1:52am
The subject of the topic is very valuable. Many traders have problems in this matter & it can be a good source. keep it up buddy
Good luck
There is nothing wrong with being kind & loving to each other
  • #10
  • Oct 16, 2022 4:39am Oct 16, 2022 4:39am
Subscribed to your thread Sir, will be looking forward to your teachings.....
Admit & be admitted
  • #11
  • Oct 16, 2022 5:15am Oct 16, 2022 5:15am
Quoting Waveskierrob
{quote} 17. I have been told that in some countries and brokers you can't have "force stop", you can't have a SHORT and LONG positions open at the same time, there are ways around this, hedging using different pairs 18. Some spreads and commissions are a lot higher with other brokers jus trade the lowest spread pair or indices that's available to you 19. No mocking of spelling or typo's ...as my englis is shit ..
opening a long-short position once.
it's cool, it's unnecessary to try = burn the bill, in the long run.

this is just an opinion, but good luck with it.
  • #12
  • Oct 16, 2022 5:20am Oct 16, 2022 5:20am
Quoting tiborf71
{quote} opening a long-short position once. it's cool, it's unnecessary to try = burn the bill, in the long run. this is just an opinion, but good luck with it.
Thanks for your opinion, do you have evidence to back up your claim, opinions are good, but evidence is better.... cheers
  • #13
  • Oct 16, 2022 5:25am Oct 16, 2022 5:25am
Quoting Waveskierrob
{quote} Thanks for your opinion, do you have evidence to back up your claim, opinions are good, but evidence is better.... cheers
you will always roll the loss in front of you, which will only grow and grow.
  • #14
  • Oct 16, 2022 5:28am Oct 16, 2022 5:28am
Quoting tiborf71
{quote} you will always roll the loss in front of you, which will only grow and grow.
Don't know if you know the meaning of evidence but that isn't it...
  • #15
  • Oct 16, 2022 5:33am Oct 16, 2022 5:33am
Quoting Waveskierrob
{quote} Don't know if you know the meaning of evidence but that isn't it...
evidence?

tests+logic.

good luck.
  • #16
  • Oct 16, 2022 5:38am Oct 16, 2022 5:38am
Quoting tiborf71
{quote} evidence? tests+logic. good luck.
Brilliant we are getting there, now show your tests and logic .... I'm sure everyone here is interested and if you are right, you will save them a lot of money...
  • #17
  • Oct 16, 2022 5:51am Oct 16, 2022 5:51am
Observation:
I haven't seen how you exit the opposing trades to turn a profit yet.
Question:
Aren't you getting hit with interest charges on your contra trades daily?
  • #18
  • Oct 16, 2022 6:00am Oct 16, 2022 6:00am
Quoting dantpm
Observation: I haven't seen how you exit the opposing trades to turn a profit yet. Question: Aren't you getting hit with interest charges on your contra trades daily?
Hence this thread I will trade live real time when I can, I did post a day's LONG/SHORT trading some time ago 29th December 2020 if you are interested, yes I do get hit with charges but that's the price I pay for overall profits....paid £2400 in the last 60 days
  • #19
  • Oct 16, 2022 6:05am Oct 16, 2022 6:05am
Quoting Waveskierrob
{quote} Brilliant we are getting there, now show your tests and logic .... I'm sure everyone here is interested and if you are right, you will save them a lot of money...
...so you got nothing, thanks you've gave me something from it...

20. Only post opinions if you can back them up with evidence, opinions and beliefs are worth shit on this thread...thank you please
  • #20
  • Oct 16, 2022 6:06am Oct 16, 2022 6:06am
Quoting dantpm
Observation: I haven't seen how you exit the opposing trades to turn a profit yet. Question: Aren't you getting hit with interest charges on your contra trades daily?
Just a question for learning purposes: Do we get charged for hedging? when I did hedging I was not charged!
Or do we get charged only when our position size is very big?
Admit & be admitted
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