How to get the mindset right?

I couldn't find a section related to psychological questions, so I'm posting it in here as it's an important part of trading itself.
(But move this to a different section if I judged it the wrong way).

Let's get to the point:
I've been educating myself for 4 years now to hopefully get to a point where I can profitably execute trades (not aiming to become a trader per se).
In this process I've been re-(reading) lots of threads that made sense to me and slowly finetuning this into a strategy that I think would work for me.
To guide me towards setups I'm looking for, I've also been developing indicators/EAs.
...
But now I struggle to go the next step: executing those trades. (on demo, not even talking real money)
I find myself to be stuck in the analysing/preparing/... phase where I'm building yet another EA, changing my desired TFs where I want to trade in (the 1D/4H, 30m/5m, ...)

Do I lack discipline, am I afraid to find out my strategy isn't profitable (yet),... I really don't know

So my question is:
Does this sound familiar to others (and have overcome this)?
What did you do to overcome this?
Is there material out there that can help me getting the mindset right to take the leap and trigger those trades?
...

Looking forward to any input!

Krisch

This is a really good question. If I imagine being in your current situation, I would question the "not aiming to become trader per se" first and most.


I don't think there is a possible way to become trader without commited decision alongside the lines "I WILL make my living by trading." There's probably a second way, in which you have already mastered something similar, and just decided to branch yourself out. Just to test your limits, possibilities and to conquer new lands. This will be even more rare than the first way though. But I don't really assume there is a third way in which it can be done.

This is important, really, really important. Our brain is a wonderful tool that has two main reasons to exist in the first place - to manage resources and to keep us safe.

When I am not commited to something, my brain will commit less resources to it, and it will think constantly of dozens of ways to stall any progress in it. Because our brain hates wasting resources and unknown territories hates even more.


Imagine this like battle between two unconscious thoughts.

"I will try to be profitable in trading... but what if it don't work? Everything will be wasted. Rather tone that down a little bit."
"But... what if it will actually work? I don't know what to do next. I am not prepared for that. Better if this uncertain situation never happens."

It takes hundreds of hours starring at charts, another hundreds of hours thinking about - well, quite everything - and another several hundreds of hours of focused effort in related areas. General psychology, own personal psychology, study of emotions, money, markets, maths and behaviour to name a few.

Without commited decision to master every one of these things I will not have any meaningful progress whatsoever. My own brain will sabotage every step I take. It will prevent me from learning. It won't make a-ha connections. It won't let me pass forward.


This is where the line really breaks I think. These problems you name are more common than people realize. What you think of them and what you do with them is what matter the most. Probably this is one of the biggest reasons why so low number of people make it.

Uncommited majority will read something like this and discard it. Just for the sake that these thoughts are hard to think about. They hurt on some deep level and not many people are willing to go into that pain, resolve it and move forward. It almost feels like starring into an abyss.

Commited person will read something like this and think: "Wow... this feels really hard. I know it is really hard. But I want to do this. I WILL do this. I NEED to do this. **** yeah, bring it on. There isn't a force now that can stop me."


Probably this isn't something you had in mind where you asked that question, Krisch. But I think this is THE thing every starting trader needs to hear, sooner the better. But very few people will talk about this.

There's no point in curing the symptoms like fear of placing the trades, indecision about timeframes and similar things outright. The real cause of these things is deeply rooted somewhere in our psychology, and we need to untangle the roots where they are, not where we think they are.

I really think all will fall into right places when you take a few hours across few days to journal about your motives in trading. either you will abandon the thoughts of trading altogether (it's actually good, because you will not waste any more time on it), or you will commit to it and instantly know what you need to do next to push through.


All the love,
Vojte

Yes, there is material that can assist in this process and better yet give you more insights.

The book is: The disciplined trader, Developing winning attitudes by Mark Douglas.

We have very similar trading errors or needs but I still believe we have different systems

Agree with Moses, mark douglas books best ever esp. for the psychological part, which I still find to be the hardest hurdle! Aloha, angiinhana

I think the main psychological problem here is that you (conscious) lie yourself and your subconscious knows about it.
And then you (conscious) try to create "why" to justify future failures. Here "discipline" comes to the stage. And "correct mood", and other non-existent things that can't be controlled.

Then you said that your was educating yourself for 4 years, what that mean? That you have read tons of nonsense and lie about forex? But this is not a knowledge.
Think and say what you really know? Do you know how marker works? Do you know what orderbook is and what it shows? Do you know how stops orders act? Can you calculate margin at certain price level?
Nope, nope, nope, nope. You don't have any knowledge. You can't trade. You will fail for sure. And now it's time to create some "why" for yourself. Let it be "that is because of lack of discipline". Or "my mood is not synchronized with market".

And of course "you" here is not you. This is about all of us. Nothing personal.

Summed up pretty nicely here :

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...7#post14069307

"where is the edge on the chart?"

These are some of the factors that can influence if you can trade effectively...


-Being present enough, being aware of everything that is necessary for winning. but not overdoing it.. just something is necessary...
(Market state, your own rules..)
-if you have personal problems in other areas of life it may affect you.. Something worries you or in pain.
-Enough sleep.
-Being interested in what you do.... good motivation
-being aware of fears related to trading... trading to reduce them
-good preparation ,,going through the rules
-people can have inner, unconscious resistances (examine at your thoughts... what you have while you prepare) Are there reasons you do not want to trade or there is something else in your mind? Do not overdo this if it has a bad effect on you.
-good fuel for the mind.. (I found blackberry is very good)
-Enough drinking
-Good fitness.. if your body is not strong enough.. your mind may not work well...


What can you do?
Maybe ask someone to trade with you... that your companion can have a good effect on you or may notice things.
Go through the check list above and see if any of you applies to you or explains the situation.

I've found having a clearly defined set of rules. i.e. one trade a day, trading during a certain market session etc

Thank you all for the input so far!

There were really some good arguments mentioned in here, and when I think about them it does seem applicable to my struggle.
I'll go ahead with these steps:
- Think about my motivation and write this down (if I don't manage to do this, this will already be a clear sign for me).
I'll make it visible by putting it on my monitor so I can be reminded of my true motivation.
- Establish my trading rules: not just the strategy, but the "setting around it (timeframes, trading hours/moments, mental state,...)
And I have to stick with these rules.

Hopefully this will get the ball rolling for me

Your mindset is the most important part, trader psychology is the key that most lack, and what keeps them from success. Maintain your locus of control.

Sometimes is not about preparing things sometimes is about trying.

I think what you experience is afraid of losing something. It could be money or it could be your conviction to your self. If you afraid to fail you afraid to success. success is always related to fail, if there's someone out there say that their never fail than they are never truly success because my successes is my yesterdays fails.

You have a good start by using demo account as your starting point just don't focus on the capital of the demo account, focus on your strategy. And if it's fail then you know that you need to move on, searching another strategy that's fit YOU not anyone else.

Since you also join in creating an indicator and EA you also understand what's happened behind what shown in the chart. It should help you a lot in making strategy.

I create a lot of EA which result in unprofitable and does those means I'm wasting my life. No, every EA that's failed moves me forward to create a profitable one.

The ultimate answer is don't afraid to fail and knows when to working on that failed or to move on.

One Author says that "the wanting to is the how".

A confluence of the indicators show a bias of what is about to happen, due to someone or a group of humans that think alike. And money is not the factor here.

1. Getting Your Mindset Right Each Day. ...
2. Build A Routine. ...
3. See Beyond Today To Reach Your Goals. ...
4. Step Out Of Your Comfort Zone. ...
5. Accept Setbacks And Roll With Changes. ...
6. Find Your Inspiration And Motivation Daily.

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Some great info mate, thanks for sharing. AL

Also a lot of overlap with long term successful traders as well as poker/card players and competitive gamers.

Another skill set that is developed in combat scenarios, taught as the OODA loop, viable in ground, air, sea combat encounters.

It is great work and he simplifies so much more in this book. May he rest in peace