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The5ers - Trading & Growth Program

  • #1,561
  • Mar 21, 2022 3:13pm Mar 21, 2022 3:13pm
Quoting cutevedha
{quote} You can do it once or twice with the required performance but not for 17 times
Yes, it was 100% sarcasm.
  • #1,562
  • Mar 22, 2022 4:27am Mar 22, 2022 4:27am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} or you could do 100 trades per day and be there in 17 days
Hey pipmaster77

It's always a pleasure!

I want to point out some small mistakes you have.

When you sign up for the 20K Instant Funding program, you do pay $875 to start trading on a real account, and yes, at this stage, we are not committing direct money risk, although we also do not profit if a trader loses. This stage evaluates traders.
You need to earn 7% in 6 months; when you succeed, you get 50% of the profit and an 80K account. If I am not wrong, at this point in other prop firms, you have not yet completed the first evaluation step (and you still need to pass another evaluation step).
In our level 2, your drawdown is $3200, so if you lose the account, The5ers loses $1625 ($3200 - $700 from profit - $875 initial fee).

That’s why we invest so much in resources and traders' support because we need them to succeed. That is why we are willing to bring over someone like Dr. Gary Dayton, the author of the "TRADE MINDFULLY," and offer his knowledge to our traders for free.

We will not play the game of stressing out our traders with programs promoting lucky trading.

We created the Bootcamp program, where you only pay a low entry cost of 85 euros at the beginning, make 18% in one year, and only if you succeed, then you will pay 215 euros and receive a $100K funded account.

Regarding the "spin," the freestyle program allows traders to trade as they are without needing to adapt their strategies to certain parameters, such as profit targets, in a certain amount of time. Choose your best trades, with all the time you want. And even if you went down to 15% drawdown or only generated 4% profit, you could still get funded. On the funded account, you'll get a 10% drawdown without a daily drawdown and an amazing growth plan.

I started trading in 2003 in stocks; yes, I am getting old. I have never met anyone who took a small account, turned it into a big account, and withdrew large profits as I see every day with The5ers. You well know, it doesn't work when you try to grow a $500 account with 1: 200 leverage. Traders withdraw every month (for years now) thousands of dollars with us. They themselves acknowledge that could not have been made on their personal accounts.

Most traders can't make a 10% profit in one month. We give a more realistic alternative to that standard. We seak good risk management and we reward consistency.

I wish you success!
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #1,563
  • Mar 22, 2022 7:11am Mar 22, 2022 7:11am
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} Hey pipmaster77 It's always a pleasure! I want to point out some small mistakes you have. When you sign up for the 20K Instant Funding program, you do pay $875 to start trading on a real account, and yes, at this stage, we are not committing direct money risk, although we also do not profit if a trader loses. This stage evaluates traders. You need to earn 7% in 6 months; when you succeed, you get 50% of the profit and an 80K account. If I am not wrong, at this point in other prop firms, you have not yet completed the first evaluation step...
The only number that matters with any prop firm is DD allowed. The equity does not matter. This is your risk of ruin. You can say pass our stage 1 and we will give you $ 1 million in funding, if the DD is $800, that million matters not at all. All trades must be executed with max loss as the parameter. I am certainly not risking 1% per trade on your 80K account when my DD is $3200. I am done in 4 trades.
If my risk of ruin with the 5%ers is less than my fee paid, how is that money not better in a personal account. To boot, to scale my DD 200%, I need to earn 250% (10% with 4% DD). There is no way to spin this at all where a trader isn't simply better off with their own account. With the challenge firms, the DD is 24 times the fee paid, plus the fee is refunded.
  • #1,564
  • Mar 22, 2022 9:18am Mar 22, 2022 9:18am
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} Hey pipmaster77 It's always a pleasure! I want to point out some small mistakes you have. When you sign up for the 20K Instant Funding program, you do pay $875 to start trading on a real account, and yes, at this stage, we are not committing direct money risk, although we also do not profit if a trader loses. This stage evaluates traders. You need to earn 7% in 6 months; when you succeed, you get 50% of the profit and an 80K account. If I am not wrong, at this point in other prop firms, you have not yet completed the first evaluation step...
and some small mistakes you've made.....you are asking for 7% profit with 4% DD.....a 175% return. The challenge model asks for 8% with 12% (67%, stage 1) and then 5% with 12% (41.6%, stage 2). So, actually, by the time one has completed your 175%, they have passed, are funded and have probably received 2or 3 payouts, which by the way, are significantly higher as the 10 times higher DD allowed permits much larger positions AND the split is 80-90% vs 50%.
  • #1,565
  • Mar 24, 2022 10:51am Mar 24, 2022 10:51am
Here's today's recording of the Freestyle Q&A

Saul Lokier & Alexander Kriss answered trader's questions about The Freestyle funding, such as:

What is the potential growth?

How can The5ers offer a 100% profit share?

What is the difference between hedging and netting?

Inserted Video
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #1,566
  • Mar 24, 2022 3:19pm Mar 24, 2022 3:19pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} and some small mistakes you've made.....you are asking for 7% profit with 4% DD.....a 175% return. The challenge model asks for 8% with 12% (67%, stage 1) and then 5% with 12% (41.6%, stage 2). So, actually, by the time one has completed your 175%, they have passed, are funded and have probably received 2or 3 payouts, which by the way, are significantly higher as the 10 times higher DD allowed permits much larger positions AND the split is 80-90% vs 50%.
Hi Pip
what do you think of this freestyle program ?
On-site guru & also FF member's' psychiatrist, when not drinking tea
  • #1,567
  • Mar 24, 2022 6:30pm Mar 24, 2022 6:30pm
Quoting The5ersTF
Here's today's recording of the Freestyle Q&A
-Just watched the video and commented with some questions. I wanted to share them here, for others. Thanks.

 

  1. Does the performance factor reset after the account balance is scaled up?
  2. Is the max draw-down that is used to calculate the performance factor based on the initial account balance, or, is this a relative draw-down that is based on the current balance/equity?
  3. Is the fee refundable upon successful completion?
  4. Are challenge attempts unlimited?
  5. Can partial withdrawals be made so that traders can leave some funds in the account for additional draw-down protection?
  6. Are bank wires available for withdrawals?
  7. Are Indices definitely going to be added?


Thanks.

  • #1,568
  • Mar 26, 2022 1:01pm Mar 26, 2022 1:01pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Just watched the video and commented with some questions. I wanted to share them here, for others. Thanks. Does the performance factor reset after the account balance is scaled up? Is the max draw-down that is used to calculate the performance factor based on the initial account balance, or, is this a relative draw-down that is based on the current balance/equity? Is the fee refundable upon successful completion? Are challenge attempts unlimited? Can partial withdrawals be made so that traders can leave some funds in the account for additional...
Hey Nsak3y,

Here are the answers to your questions.

1. The performance factor will reset each time you scale up the account.

2. The drawdown calculated for the performance factor is a relative drawdown that is can occurred from any one of your 100trades. Once you get funded, your DD is 10% absolute, and there is no daily DD.

3. There is no refundable fee. The fee of €550 is very fair for the risk we take, giving a 10% Absolute drawdown on the funded account, no daily DD, and 100% of the profit. 1 free reset and unlimited time to complete the evaluation.

4. You have one free reset on the account if you are positive and didn't reach the factor target.

5. Partial withdrawals can be made once you have completed 50 trades on your funded account. You’ll be able to withdraw anytime via your dashboard whenever you want. If you do decide to leave the funding in your account, then that will act as a buffer to your DD.

6. Yes, bank wires are available through our payout partner Deel.

7. We are planning to add indices, but I still do not know when it will be.

Best regards
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #1,569
  • Mar 26, 2022 4:52pm Mar 26, 2022 4:52pm
Thank you for responding. I appreciate it.

I was hoping that you could clarify a few things:

Quoting The5ersTF
2. The drawdown calculated for the performance factor is a relative drawdown that is can occurred from any one of your 100trades. Once you get funded, your DD is 10% absolute, and there is no daily DD.
-If a trader makes 3K profit on the account (putting them at 53K), then loses 1K, is that counted towards draw-down, or, does the trader need to drop below 50K in order to see any draw-down that would impact the performance factor? If a positive loss like this does count towards draw-down, then how does this work, because this could cause traders to have to constantly be digging themselves out of a hole in order to improve their performance factor and scale up their live account?


Quoting The5ersTF
4. You have one free reset on the account if you are positive and didn't reach the factor target.
-What I mean, is, if a trader fails the challenge, or, loses their live account, can they keep paying and trying an unlimited amount of times, or, do you eventually cut them off?

Quoting The5ersTF
We are planning to add indices, but I still do not know when it will be.
-Please keep us posted on this.

Thanks.
  • #1,570
  • Mar 27, 2022 5:54am Mar 27, 2022 5:54am
Quoting Nsak3y
Thank you for responding. I appreciate it. I was hoping that you could clarify a few things: {quote}-If a trader makes 3K profit on the account (putting them at 53K), then loses 1K, is that counted towards draw-down, or, does the trader need to drop below 50K in order to see any draw-down that would impact the performance factor? If a positive loss like this does count towards draw-down, then how does this work, because this could cause traders to have to constantly be digging themselves out of a hole in order to improve their performance factor...
Hey Nsak3y

* The max drawdown is calculated from the peak balance to the lowest equity that follows it. So if the traders goes from $50K to $53K and from there to $52K, there's a drawdown of (52-53)/53 = -1.89%
This is how portfolio risk is measured in real hedge-funds and investment firms. Consistency is measured throughout the 100 positions, not just below the initial balance.

* A trader can retake the challenge with no limitations.

* Of course

Best regards
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #1,571
  • Edited 7:00am Mar 27, 2022 6:38am | Edited 7:00am
Quoting The5ersTF
Hey Nsak3y * The max drawdown is calculated from the peak balance to the lowest equity that follows it. So if the traders goes from $50K to $53K and from there to $52K, there's a drawdown of (52-53)/53 = -1.89%
-Thank you. This clears things up. After looking at this more closely, it does not seem so bad since the draw-down is divided by the net profit percentage for calculating performance. At first, it seemed problematic, since the trader would be in a 1.89% draw-down, even if the account balance was positive, however, the performance factor would still be >2, which is good. The downside is that the trader must maintain a 1:2 R:R in order to satisfy the performance requirements. So, if a trader profits 5K, then loses 5K, the trader will then need to profit 10K in order to reach 2 on performance, it seems (unless I am wrong?).

I wonder if the draw-down is accumulative or based on a maximum loss range? For example, if a trader goes from 50K to 55K, then loses the 5K, making their draw-down -10%, then back to 55K again, then loses 1K, making their profit 54K, does the -10% change now that more losses have occurred, or does it stay fixed at -10% since that is the largest, total draw-down that has occurred on the account?

Thank you for taking the time. I appreciate it.
  • #1,572
  • Mar 27, 2022 8:58am Mar 27, 2022 8:58am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Thank you. This clears things up. After looking at this more closely, it does not seem so bad since the draw-down is divided by the net profit percentage for calculating performance. At first, it seemed problematic, since the trader would be in a 1.89% draw-down, even if the account balance was positive, however, the performance factor would still be >2, which is good. The downside is that the trader must maintain a 1:2 R:R in order to satisfy the performance requirements. So, if a trader profits 5K, then loses 5K, the trader will then need...
Hey Nsak3y

It stays fixed at the largest drawdown, it does not accumulate.

Best regards
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #1,573
  • Mar 27, 2022 10:33am Mar 27, 2022 10:33am
Quoting The5ersTF
Hey Nsak3y It stays fixed at the largest drawdown, it does not accumulate. Best regards
-Very good. Thank you for taking the time. I appreciate it.
  • #1,574
  • Mar 28, 2022 7:16am Mar 28, 2022 7:16am
Weekly Forex Analysis 28th March – 1st April 2022

Here's today's recording of the forex trading room session.

In today’s trading room, we reviewed the key economic events for this week, reviewed the majors' heatmap, and examined key levels on high time-frame charts of the majors.

We highlight the important upside movement in the capital markets. Markets are expecting the conflict between Russia and Ukraine to cool down and therefore lead to confirmation of a risk-on environment.

We also showed the strength of the USD on the DXY. There is an interesting daily resistance zone to take care of, but the next step on the upside will be around 100. This will be a key zone for the next month to come.

Lastly, we have discussed about the JPY that continues to depreciate against the USD. The JPY is approaching decades levels, and then it can be highly interesting to monitor for a long-term positioning.

We will go LIVE again tomorrow (Tuesday) @09:00ET.


*Click here to find out more about our new Freestyle funding program.

*Get your free PDF trading plan.

*Don't miss our new resource, Forex Trading Ideas.

Enjoy!

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ftr_blog_ruben_copy_720 Weekly Forex Analysis 28th March - 1st April 2022 - The JPY is Approaching D Size: 157 KB
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #1,575
  • Mar 29, 2022 2:03pm Mar 29, 2022 2:03pm
Hello, again.

I have another question relating to the Freestyle program:

With regard to netting, how does this work from a trade-execution and slippage standpoint? Are all trades closed simultaneously, causing added slippage? Is there an added delay when closing out the position due to multiple position closures?

Thanks.
  • #1,576
  • Mar 29, 2022 8:18pm Mar 29, 2022 8:18pm
Hello, again.

Regarding the Freestyle program, please consider removing or reducing the 50-trade wait period for first withdrawal. Or, please explain the reasoning for this so that traders have a better understanding.

Thanks.
  • #1,577
  • Mar 30, 2022 6:19am Mar 30, 2022 6:19am
Quoting Nsak3y
Hello, again. I have another question relating to the Freestyle program: With regard to netting, how does this work from a trade-execution and slippage standpoint? Are all trades closed simultaneously, causing added slippage? Is there an added delay when closing out the position due to multiple position closures? Thanks.
Hey Nsak3y

Netting happens automatically in the trading platform, by adjusting the position size and average prices (entry / SL / TP). So it's one position - not multiple positions - and therefore it causes no slippage or delay.

Best regards
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #1,578
  • Mar 30, 2022 6:20am Mar 30, 2022 6:20am
Quoting Nsak3y
Hello, again. Regarding the Freestyle program, please consider removing or reducing the 50-trade wait period for first withdrawal. Or, please explain the reasoning for this so that traders have a better understanding. Thanks.
Hey Nsak3y

The reason behind the 50-trade rule once funded is that we want to see seriousness, consistency, and responsibility after the evaluation phase. Basically, a trader can pass the evaluation phase by making a profit of $150. Once getting funded, a trader might want to go 'all-in' to make a profit as fast as possible since the only limitation is the 10% stop-out, and the 50-trade rule protects both us and the trader from impulsive trading.

Best regards
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #1,579
  • Mar 30, 2022 7:53am Mar 30, 2022 7:53am
Quoting The5ersTF
Hey Nsak3y Netting happens automatically in the trading platform, by adjusting the position size and average prices (entry / SL / TP). So it's one position - not multiple positions - and therefore it causes no slippage or delay. Best regards
-Thank you. So, if the positions are all closed as 'one position', does this not create a greater risk for slippage (or are the positions still closed individually)?

Thanks, again.
  • #1,580
  • Mar 30, 2022 7:59am Mar 30, 2022 7:59am
Quoting The5ersTF
Hey Nsak3y The reason behind the 50-trade rule once funded is that we want to see seriousness, consistency, and responsibility after the evaluation phase. Basically, a trader can pass the evaluation phase by making a profit of $150. Once getting funded, a trader might want to go 'all-in' to make a profit as fast as possible since the only limitation is the 10% stop-out, and the 50-trade rule protects both us and the trader from impulsive trading. Best regards
-Thank you. I suppose that this reasoning makes sense. However, there is nothing to stop an impulsive trader from doing that anyway. But fair enough. I do hope that you guys will consider lowering it, nonetheless.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my concerns. I appreciate it.
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