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  • #341
  • Mar 21, 2022 6:34am Mar 21, 2022 6:34am
Quoting FundedCoffee
{quote} Yes I understand your point and I am sure there is MUCH more to what Parisboy is doing and what those missle folks were using. Just as it currently stands, for my trading the relaxed mode has more use to me than the strict mode. It gives a great confirmation/suggestion where the price is more likely headed. Up or Down. So maybe you are a genius
Quoting FundedCoffee
So maybe you are a genius
I wouldn't be so sure. Keep in mind the SMA lines are backshifted and do not take into account the most recent bars. If the market changes then things could get ugly. I don't know -- again, this came straight to you from my laptop. This is why I prefer sticking with the original algorithm -- it has had decades to mature and be traded.
  • #342
  • Mar 21, 2022 6:48am Mar 21, 2022 6:48am
Quoting parisboy
{quote} I quote Bishopdotun "Lot's of theoretical perspectives and jargons. I am more particular about how it helps me to take good trades and bank some profit everyday. While the "experts" are focused on precision of focal points, I am more interested in the interactions of the SMA and how they indicate swings. That's all that matters." Bishopdotun here and Robots4me some time ago on another thread about TMAEnvelopes play the role of the peasant trader, the feet in the market mud "I am more interested in the interactions of the SMA and how they...
@parisboy -- I've learned to tread carefully when questioning or disagreeing with @bishopdotun -- he is the most brilliant man I've ever met.

However, I agree with most of your post. I think you've hit the nail on the head. @IKnowBestAlways -- I mean @BestTraderEv -- kind of dragged things down the rabbit hole. Focal Points, Double Tops/Bottoms are new and different. I think they are valuable tools to add to our toolbox. At this point I really don't understand the interest in fiddling with variations.
  • #343
  • Mar 21, 2022 6:49am Mar 21, 2022 6:49am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Focal Points are not signals or alerts -- that is not how they are used. They are **historical** meeting points of 3 or more SMAs. When the proper setup occurs (see @parisboy's charts) then the **historical** FPs can be used to guesstimate a target price. Again -- the algorithm does not intend for FPs to be used as Entries / Exits. This isn't my idea or even @parisboy's idea -- this is the algorithm that was designed by the rocket engineers that was later adapted for financial instruments.
Focal Points are alerts or signals

Focal Points signal you that :

2 Centered Moving Averages and Price have crossed at the same Price Bar (that is the ideal case)
then it alerts you that you face a "candidate" Top" or "Low" , then a potential Change in Trend (sideways or opposite trend)

Hence you can avoid an entry at the end of the trend - going nowhere or being counter trending
  • #344
  • Mar 21, 2022 6:57am Mar 21, 2022 6:57am
Quoting parisboy
{quote} Focal Points are alerts or signals Focal Points signal you that : 2 Centered Moving Averages and Price have crossed at the same Price Bar (that is the ideal case) then it alerts you that you face a "candidate" Top" or "Low" , then a potential Change in Trend (sideways or opposite trend) Hence you can avoid an entry at the end of the trend - going nowhere or being counter trending
We are using terminology a bit differently. In my world, a signal means this is where you Enter/Exit. I think in your world a signal is a clue to be applied along with some other considerations before entering / exiting a trade. Is that a fair statement?
  • #345
  • Mar 21, 2022 7:06am Mar 21, 2022 7:06am
Quoting parisboy
{quote}..... But Bishopdotun has underlined it will be better if we can use Focal Points to make some money. This will be the subject of next messages. We are all interested to know "how to bank some profit every day" to quote bishopdotun.
Another set of assumptions that are neither right nor wrong. I have read everything so far.

Focal points alert you of the direction of the market. I want to trade in that direction. That's all that matters. However, your approach has other benefits. It can estimate potential targets. The flaw in that estimate is that it is not definitive. The market can reach the target or it can fail. Estimates can never be assertive. The only thing that's assertive is that at that point in time when the focal point was printed, the market was headed in that direction or has changed direction.

My approach was to use that clue to start trading. I then provided charts to support that. It's there in my previous posts. If you read my post, you wouldn't write the sarcasm in the last sentence of your post. I also suggested that taking small bites all the way till the market changes direction makes more sense to me. hit several M30 or H1 ATRs till you see a flat market or reversal makes more sense to me. In your approach, you provided the direction of estimating the targets. Neither is wrong or right. That's why it's important that everyone finds what works for them.

The only thing certain about focal points is the direction of the market at that point in time. Targets are only estimates. They are not definitive. Hence my approach of taking bites progressively with a moderate TP based on the TF ATR characteristics. That's how you bank some profits everyday.
  • #346
  • Mar 21, 2022 7:27am Mar 21, 2022 7:27am
Quoting FundedCoffee
Anyway, I dont understand why you, BestTraderEv dont just continue Trading whatever way you want and you just ignore this Thread? Just move on, you have your own Thread that you started, your playground. You can do whatever you want in this one and trade your markers believes. If this MA stuff is all nonsense or useless for you then no one forces you to stay
First thing, I see on your charts, that your my kind of trader! Places where you enter are basically what I'm talking about.

Why am I here? Because of the other @ohitsyou thread, and that @robots4me basically wanted me to take over his thread and start one like this, but I did not want. You see, all of the sudden he was my buddy, and all of another sudden he doesn't like me any more and isn't my buddy any more. I wanted to take part in the development of a good system with the aid if his oscillator, and that's why I'm here. But, (never start with "but" ) it turned out he is some kind of... (I wanted to provide psychoanalysis, but I bit my toungue...).

Never mind...

BTW, sure, no one forces me to stay, yet this thread was started about the PlanetX/Awesome methods, not about MA's focal points.
@parisboy invaded this thread by brute force, and immediatelly got the OP's green light.
.ex4/.ex5 files can't be fixed or modified / I'm not a coder!
  • #347
  • Mar 21, 2022 7:36am Mar 21, 2022 7:36am
Quoting FundedCoffee
The problem I am having with the FPs is that they seem to be shown very late, so at least when you are a fast Trader the FP points (if you dont show the MAs) have very little use? Let me show a trade from Today. {image}{image}{image}4168488
Again, my type of thinking! I would have played this pattern on London almost the same!
No squares needed.
.ex4/.ex5 files can't be fixed or modified / I'm not a coder!
  • #348
  • Mar 21, 2022 7:37am Mar 21, 2022 7:37am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} We are using terminology a bit differently. In my world, a signal means this is where you Enter/Exit. I think in your world a signal is a clue to be applied along with some other considerations before entering / exiting a trade. Is that a fair statement?
it is a fair statement.

let's say a Focal Point in itself is a Signal that Price has made a Low or a Top - let's say it is an Alert that Trend is changing

Is it an Action Signal to enter Long or short. It depends of how you change direction.

Is price going sideways first ( conflicting short term cycles) or Price is making a sharp Top or Bottom

It is where statistics can be useful

The best to understand how it works is to show examples
  • #349
  • Mar 21, 2022 7:40am Mar 21, 2022 7:40am
EURAUD 1 mn (for training)
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  • #350
  • Mar 21, 2022 7:46am Mar 21, 2022 7:46am
Quoting parisboy
{quote} Focal Points are alerts or signals Focal Points signal you that : 2 Centered Moving Averages and Price have crossed at the same Price Bar (that is the ideal case) then it alerts you that you face a "candidate" Top" or "Low" , then a potential Change in Trend (sideways or opposite trend) Hence you can avoid an entry at the end of the trend - going nowhere or being counter trending
How about, if you entered at the end of a trend, just accept the Stop Loss, no?
.ex4/.ex5 files can't be fixed or modified / I'm not a coder!
  • #351
  • Mar 21, 2022 7:49am Mar 21, 2022 7:49am
Quoting BestTraderEv
{quote} First thing, I see on your charts, that your my kind of trader! Places where you enter are basically what I'm talking about. Why am I here? Because of the other @ohitsyou thread, and that @robots4me basically wanted me to take over his thread and start one like this, but I did not want. You see, all of the sudden he was my buddy, and all of another sudden he doesn't like me any more and isn't my buddy any more. I wanted to take part in the development of a good system with the aid if his oscillator, and that's why I'm here. But, (never start...
Dude -- recall I gave you my sources. I told you I was about to be banned because DrDave and tommydoginti hate me and knew that @ohitsyou was a double alias. I emphasized the urgency and you said you'd like to continue the original PlanetX thread. After you received my sources you then said you'd continue with a new thread "when you were ready". Remember that? But by then it was too late. I realized at that point that you weren't very reliable and that you didn't place much value in keeping your word.

Later I said I still liked you but couldn't work with you. And you responded it wasn't important to you whether or not I liked you. But now you complain we're not buddies?

In addition to being a one-tool trader -- you are also a slow learner. We've wanted you gone from this thread many posts ago, but you don't get the message. This is @bishopdotun's thread and his only flaw is that he is a gentleman. If this were my thread you would have been gone many posts ago. You are are "project killer". In the real-world, no one would choose to work with you.
  • #352
  • Mar 21, 2022 7:51am Mar 21, 2022 7:51am
Quoting parisboy
2 Centered Moving Averages and Price have crossed at the same Price Bar (that is the ideal case) then it alerts you that you face a "candidate" Top" or "Low" , then a potential Change in Trend (sideways or opposite trend)
This is the crux! I am going to test if this claim is true, or just an assumption.
Please, don't use the argument from authority fallacy, any more!
.ex4/.ex5 files can't be fixed or modified / I'm not a coder!
  • #353
  • Mar 21, 2022 7:53am Mar 21, 2022 7:53am
Quoting parisboy
{quote} it is a fair statement. let's say a Focal Point in itself is a Signal that Price has made a Low or a Top - let's say it is an Alert that Trend is changing Is it an Action Signal to enter Long or short. It depends of how you change direction. Is price going sideways first ( conflicting short term cycles) or Price is making a sharp Top or Bottom It is where statistics can be useful The best to understand how it works is to show examples
This is excellent -- we're on the same page. This is your baby so you get to define the terminology. And, yes, example charts are the best. And they are even more best when they include an arrow or two so I know where to look...
  • #354
  • Edited 10:46am Mar 21, 2022 7:56am | Edited 10:46am
On this chart my target using an ESTIMATED Focal Point 163264128256 would be 1,49140 +/- 74

Because Top = 1,49880
Estimated Focal Point = 1,49510

Swing estimation is 2 x 370 = 740 +/- 10 % = 740 +/- 74

THis means in this Price Zone which can go a little lower, depending on the real 5 CMA Crossing , but not much, probability is very high that there is a change in trend - sideways or / then Up

It where computer calculation can give us a precise FP number, then a (more) precise Target Zone
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  • #355
  • Mar 21, 2022 7:57am Mar 21, 2022 7:57am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Dude -- recall I gave you my sources. I told you I was about to be banned because DrDave and tommydoginti hate me and knew that @ohitsyou was a double alias. I emphasized the urgency and you said you'd like to continue the original PlanetX thread. After you received my sources you then said you'd continue with a new thread "when you were ready". Remember that? But by then it was too late. I realized at that point that you weren't very reliable and that you didn't place much value in keeping your word. Later I said I still liked you but couldn't...
No, you got it all backwards, dude. You're the one noone should ever work with. You can't keep your word and act like a little kindergarten baby!
As far as I'm concerned, you have no right to toss me out of any thread. I have the right to be here.
.ex4/.ex5 files can't be fixed or modified / I'm not a coder!
  • #356
  • Mar 21, 2022 7:58am Mar 21, 2022 7:58am
Quoting BestTraderEv
{quote} This is the crux! I am going to test if this claim is true, or just an assumption. Please, don't use the argument from authority fallacy, any more!
@KnowItAll -- and how are you going to test this? You're going to search through charts and charts to find an example where it doesn't hold? That doesn't meet the criterium of a valid test. I'd say it's more like 5 years and 1000 trades on a live account. Please return here when you've finalized the results and can prove they are statistically valid.
  • #357
  • Mar 21, 2022 8:01am Mar 21, 2022 8:01am
Quoting BestTraderEv
{quote} No, you got it all backwards, dude. You're the one noone should ever work with. You can't keep your word and act like a little kindergarten baby! As far as I'm concerned, you have no right to toss me out of any thread. I have the right to be here.
If this were my thread not only would I have the right, FF admin would beg me to. That's the purpose of the Ignore feature. Without it an OP would have no way to manage a thread and keep it on track when a disrupter came along.
  • #358
  • Mar 21, 2022 8:02am Mar 21, 2022 8:02am
Quoting parisboy
EURAUD 1 mn (for training) {image} {image}
So, are you saying this?
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.ex4/.ex5 files can't be fixed or modified / I'm not a coder!
  • #359
  • Edited 11:31am Mar 21, 2022 8:04am | Edited 11:31am
here CMA 256 (brown) has change its Angle from 2 ° down.

Extenssion shows now 2 possible FP target at 1,49440 or 1,49400 . All that is graphically eye estimated
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  • #360
  • Mar 21, 2022 8:08am Mar 21, 2022 8:08am
Quoting parisboy
On this chart my target using an ESTIMATED Focacal Point 163264128256 would be 1,49140 +/- 74 Because Top = 1,49880 Estimated Focal Point = 1,49510 Swing estimation is 2 x 370 = 740 +/- 10 % = 740 +/- 74 THis means in this Price Zone which can go a little lower, depending on the real 5 CMA Crossing , but not much, probability is very high that there is a change in trend - sideways or / then Up It where computer calculation can give us a precise FP number, then a (more) precise Target Zone {image}
I have a question: Focal Points occur in the past, right? What's the oldest Focal Pont you would trust? Even if it were 50 bars ago would you still trust it as long as the guesstimated target price would provide a win?

I'm used to trading signals in real-time -- like right now. So, I'm a bit uncomfortable relying on a Focal Point that was created yesterday or the day before. Do you know what I mean?
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