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PlanetX Indicator - can this indi be used for trading?

  • #141
  • Mar 5, 2022 11:56am Mar 5, 2022 11:56am
Quoting Brambilla
Hello, First of all, thanks to the creator of the thread and for his kindness in giving out tools for other traders. Regarding EA strategy , as i am usual to work with Renko chart, i was looking at the usage of PlanetX in a Renko Chart, and by visual backtesting a very simple strategy the results are awesome, yesterday in gbpusd there were 41 winner and 1 loss trade,the "problems" that comes in are 2 : - The indicator shows "clean" signals if the chart doesn't receive data, in other words if there are no new bars, as soon a new bar comes in , the...
Hello @Brambilla -- thanks for your post. I find that most interesting that PlanetX might also work on Renko charts.

I have a question -- the signals you refer to, are they the blue/purple histogram bars, red/white circles or both?

It looks to me like you are referring to the red/white circles. For now, let's ignore them. Instead, just focus on the histogram bars. When they change color from blue/purple then treat that as a transition.
  • #142
  • Mar 5, 2022 12:06pm Mar 5, 2022 12:06pm
Quoting Brambilla
Hello, First of all, thanks to the creator of the thread and for his kindness in giving out tools for other traders. Regarding EA strategy , as i am usual to work with Renko chart, i was looking at the usage of PlanetX in a Renko Chart, and by visual backtesting a very simple strategy the results are awesome, yesterday in gbpusd there were 41 winner and 1 loss trade,the "problems" that comes in are 2 : - The indicator shows "clean" signals if the chart doesn't receive data, in other words if there are no new bars, as soon a new bar comes in , the...
Continuing my previous post...

I'm attaching a modified version of the indicator. v4 differs from v3 in one way -- it uses Open prices instead of Close prices. If you don't mind, could you check whether v4 works better with your Renko charts.

Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 OIY-PlanetX-Hist-v4.0.ex4   32 KB | 345 downloads
  • #143
  • Mar 5, 2022 12:21pm Mar 5, 2022 12:21pm
Quoting ohitsyou
{quote} Hello @Brambilla -- thanks for your post. I find that most interesting that PlanetX might also work on Renko charts. I have a question -- the signals you refer to, are they the blue/purple histogram bars, red/white circles or both? It looks to me like you are referring to the red/white circles. For now, let's ignore them. Instead, just focus on the histogram bars. When they change color from blue/purple then treat that as a transition.
Hi, thanks for the kind response.
Yes, i was actually referring on both because in the strategy i'm using both.
However it would be also be awesome even if we ignore the red / white transition, hoping that the coloured bars remains reliable, but I have doubts because of the "fake" signals scenarios that I reported in my previous post. I'm not sure if all the signals could be "corrupted" in the way i described in my earlier post or it's just a matter of the white / red transition circles.
Thanks again !
  • #144
  • Mar 5, 2022 12:53pm Mar 5, 2022 12:53pm
Quoting ohitsyou
{quote} Continuing my previous post... I'm attaching a modified version of the indicator. v4 differs from v3 in one way -- it uses Open prices instead of Close prices. If you don't mind, could you check whether v4 works better with your Renko charts. {file}
Thanks for providing this version .
I'll let you know by tomorrow in more detail how this version fit in the renko, i 've took a fast look and what came to my eye is :
- Generally is like the v3 but the signals come 1 bar later
- Some signals of the v4 aren't present in the v3 and viceversa
After backtesting it seems also that there 's no more "fake" signal problem, but it still needed to be put a "fresh" indi into the chart on every new bar to not have them .
I don't know if you can in someway try to put a ResetFunction on every new bar created that basically "Reset" the indy as it if were put into the chart by new , that should resolve a lot of problems.

Thanks again for your contribution and help!
  • #145
  • Edited 5:25pm Mar 5, 2022 1:36pm | Edited 5:25pm
Quoting Brambilla
{quote} Thanks for providing this version . I'll let you know by tomorrow in more detail how this version fit in the renko, i 've took a fast look and what came to my eye is : - Generally is like the v3 but the signals come 1 bar later - Some signals of the v4 aren't present in the v3 and viceversa After backtesting it seems also that there 's no more "fake" signal problem, but it still needed to be put a "fresh" indi into the chart on every new bar to not have them . I don't know if you can in someway try to put a ResetFunction on every new bar...
I'll be interested to learn your results. However, Renko is a different beast. Bar creation is delayed until a preset bar height is achieved. There are lots of indicators that don't work on Renko charts because bars are not created at specified intervals and they don't have a concept of High, Low, Open and Close -- which are required by many indicators. So, it is not clear to me whether the problems you see are specific to PlanetX or due to the fact it is forced to use Renko bar data instead of OHLC data.

If this was a known issue that occurs with Renko charts and there was a known solution, then I would implement it. But, to be honest, if it requires trial and error then I'm not inclined to do a lot of fiddling.
  • #146
  • Mar 5, 2022 3:13pm Mar 5, 2022 3:13pm
Quoting ohitsyou
{quote} For what it is worth, when it comes to EAs here is my observation... Trend-trading strategies can be broken down into the following sub-categories based on the number of bars between transitions: 1. Swing trading -- approximately 3-8 bars 2. Short-trend trading -- approximately 20 bars 3. Trend trading -- approximately 20 - 40 bars 4. Super-trend trading -- greater than 40 bars No one trading strategy is better than another. Also, market conditions play a role. I believe there is a "sweet spot" between accuracy and responsiveness. If an...
Personally I am very negative about fully automated EA's. I am of the opinion that the sweet spot, or the way of the middle is when EA only serves as the helper and trader decides. EA just executes and calculates whatever is neccessary, risk especially according to expected RR. In my own trading career the biggest problem I see is trader's expectations vs. reality. Reality being that we never know the future. The problem in my case always exists when I want to recover my losses and then I need a specific ammount, and my Take Profit must be where the losses will be recovered. Of course, this approach can never work. The only right approach is when Stop Loss < Take Profit. So, there are 3 pillars of successful trading, and in strict order they are:
1. Know your Take Profit price! It must be at level where price is very likely to retest. This is first!!!
2. Know your Stop Loss price! It must be at level where swing began, or local retracement ended!!!
3. Only under conditions 1. & 2. you can estimate good entry price! It must be at level where Risk is smaller than Reward!!! If market does not give this opportunity - do not enter into position!!!
Now, the glue that must stick those 3 pillars together is consistency.
When trader can be consistent and get rid of such things as FOMO and revenge, and can think without any emotion to what is happening on the chart and to their money, that's when trader can be successful.
.ex4/.ex5 files can't be fixed or modified / I'm not a coder!
  • #147
  • Mar 5, 2022 3:27pm Mar 5, 2022 3:27pm
Quoting Brambilla
{quote} Thanks for providing this version . I'll let you know by tomorrow in more detail how this version fit in the renko, i 've took a fast look and what came to my eye is : - Generally is like the v3 but the signals come 1 bar later - Some signals of the v4 aren't present in the v3 and viceversa After backtesting it seems also that there 's no more "fake" signal problem, but it still needed to be put a "fresh" indi into the chart on every new bar to not have them . I don't know if you can in someway try to put a ResetFunction on every new bar...
If you are coding EA to the signals/markers it will never work. Like in any other case of indicator signals. This is because it is impossible to code for market changeability - the market changes - meaning that we will always get so called false signals. We can get Sell signal, then Buy signal, then another Sell signal, and if EA executes orders on every signal, we may lose instead of winning on one good Short. We can see that on the chart. EA can not. Maybe someone can code AI to recognise visual patterns? Not by coding patterns, but but AI learning visually?
.ex4/.ex5 files can't be fixed or modified / I'm not a coder!
  • #148
  • Mar 5, 2022 3:41pm Mar 5, 2022 3:41pm
Quoting Brambilla
{quote} Thanks for providing this version . I'll let you know by tomorrow in more detail how this version fit in the renko, i 've took a fast look and what came to my eye is : - Generally is like the v3 but the signals come 1 bar later - Some signals of the v4 aren't present in the v3 and viceversa After backtesting it seems also that there 's no more "fake" signal problem, but it still needed to be put a "fresh" indi into the chart on every new bar to not have them . I don't know if you can in someway try to put a ResetFunction on every new bar...
BTW, what Renko generator are you using?
The problem may be in the Renko generator, not the indicator.
.ex4/.ex5 files can't be fixed or modified / I'm not a coder!
  • #149
  • Edited 11:47pm Mar 5, 2022 6:10pm | Edited 11:47pm
Quoting BestTraderEv
{quote} Personally I am very negative about fully automated EA's. I am of the opinion that the sweet spot, or the way of the middle is when EA only serves as the helper and trader decides. EA just executes and calculates whatever is neccessary, risk especially according to expected RR. In my own trading career the biggest problem I see is trader's expectations vs. reality. Reality being that we never know the future. The problem in my case always exists when I want to recover my losses and then I need a specific ammount, and my Take Profit must...
Nice post -- all good points.

And I want to clarify what I mean by "sweet spot" because you used it differently. Look it -- everything is a trade-off, i.e. a balance. We can not have our cake and eat it too. Indicators are always a balance between accuracy / responsiveness. When an indicator is very accurate it will likely be overly responsive and go for all the head fakes. And when an indicator is less accurate or stringent, then it will be under responsive and enter trades too late. And when you encounter the ping-pong between BUY and SELL (in a choppy market) which you described in your other post then you get to experience your account balance spiraling downward because every trade is entered too late. The "sweet spot" that I refer to is the **balance** between under and over responsiveness. And this is controlled by the algorithm's settings -- not its underlying algebra. The responsiveness of almost any indicator can be calibrated to be more or less responsive by fiddling with its settings.

In my experience, swing trading requires a delicate combination of accuracy and responsiveness that is very difficult to achieve in an EA that is coded using very simple algebra. But our brain can do it when discretionary trading. I like your combination of discretionary trading to make decisions and then relying on the EA to handle the boring bookkeeping.

Also, in my experience, when you go for larger trends then I think / know it is possible to code an EA that achieves the right balance between accuracy / responsiveness -- i.e. the sweet spot I was referring to.
  • #150
  • Mar 5, 2022 6:46pm Mar 5, 2022 6:46pm
Quoting BestTraderEv
{quote} If you are coding EA to the signals/markers it will never work. Like in any other case of indicator signals. This is because it is impossible to code for market changeability - the market changes - meaning that we will always get so called false signals. We can get Sell signal, then Buy signal, then another Sell signal, and if EA executes orders on every signal, we may lose instead of winning on one good Short. We can see that on the chart. EA can not. Maybe someone can code AI to recognise visual patterns? Not by coding patterns, but but...

How do the institutions program their algos?

Those argos work, surely, don't they? Surely of all the algos in the world, the ones used by the big boys must be the best performers.

Looks at the performance of actively managed funds versus the S&P 500 ETF

Well I guess not...
  • #151
  • Mar 5, 2022 7:12pm Mar 5, 2022 7:12pm
Quoting JauntyLoon
{quote} How do the institutions program their algos? Those argos work, surely, don't they? Surely of all the algos in the world, the ones used by the big boys must be the best performers. Looks at the performance of actively managed funds versus the S&P 500 ETF Well I guess not...
Hold on a moment, let's give them a call. Find a comfortable chair and I'll get back to you as soon as they respond...
  • #152
  • Mar 5, 2022 7:44pm Mar 5, 2022 7:44pm
Quoting ohitsyou
{quote} Hold on a moment, let's give them a call. Find a comfortable chair and I'll get back to you as soon as they respond...

I guess they employ teams of talented people to constantly tweak their algos constantly.

And here we see retail traders trying to make money with crappy EAs ... it's really quite pathetic!
  • #153
  • Edited 9:58pm Mar 5, 2022 8:28pm | Edited 9:58pm
Quoting JauntyLoon
{quote} I guess they employ teams of talented people to constantly tweak their algos constantly. And here we see retail traders trying to make money with crappy EAs ... it's really quite pathetic!
"jaunty" you are not. "loon" is probably more accurate. You might as well paint a sign on your forehead proclaiming you are angry and lonely.

You are one of the types who thinks he's clever and funny -- but you're not. You are a time-waster -- both yours and ours...

@JauntyLoon -- thank you for your service. Adios amigo...
  • #154
  • Mar 5, 2022 9:04pm Mar 5, 2022 9:04pm
To address this issue of transition markers I've modified the PlanetX indicator to include MT4's built-in Momentum indicator. From the image below you can see that when the yellow momentum line crosses the '0' level this generally aligns with PlanetX's red / white circles -- but not always. Again, the red / white circles are NOT trading signals -- rather, they are ALERT markers intended to alert you there may be a transition here.

When the momentum transition is strong you can see that the red / white circles may get you into a trade a bar or two earlier -- this is yuuge. But when the momentum transition is week then the red / white circle should be ignored. This is where discretion comes in and you use your brain to decide your next course of action.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: PlanetX-plus-Momentum.png Size: 55 KB

Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 OIY-PlanetX-Hist-v5.0.ex4   25 KB | 348 downloads
  • #155
  • Mar 5, 2022 10:17pm Mar 5, 2022 10:17pm
BTW -- does anyone else see the repeating pattern exhibited by the momentum indicator? The interval between transitions is approximately 3-8 bars. I didn't make that up. Others have noticed this, as well. It's not exactly every 3-8 bars, but you get the idea, right? This is price (to the 4th or 5th decimal place) fluctuating above and below the current "fair market value" or equilibrium price. In absolute terms price really doesn't move that much. But since the Y-axis of the main chart displays only the tip of the iceberg then price fluctuations visually appear much bigger than they actually are. From one candle to the next price moves less than 0.1% (or less).
  • #156
  • Mar 6, 2022 1:23am Mar 6, 2022 1:23am
Quoting BestTraderEv
OK, I got rid of indicator_minimum, indicator_maximum: {file} Now it should work fine. I changed the file in my first post too. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/post/13919446#post13919446
hello BestTrderEv, you are really doing a great job, can you please add this indiicator to planetx instead of awesome, it look promising than the awesome
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 STLM_hist.ex4   42 KB | 262 downloads
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 STLM_hist.mq4   13 KB | 276 downloads
  • #157
  • Mar 6, 2022 3:18am Mar 6, 2022 3:18am
Quoting BestTraderEv
{quote} Oh, cool, thanks, I was just going to code myself those on chart signals. I don't need the oscillator at all if I have this. This is all anybody needs to be a succesful trader. Of course, I will be looking at it all next week.
And possibly help change the onchart version to MTF
  • #158
  • Mar 6, 2022 4:21am Mar 6, 2022 4:21am
Quoting JauntyLoon
{quote} How do the institutions program their algos? Those argos work, surely, don't they? Surely of all the algos in the world, the ones used by the big boys must be the best performers. Looks at the performance of actively managed funds versus the S&P 500 ETF Well I guess not...
First of all, they employ mathematicians, often or almost always with degrees in higher maths. I even know of one fund manager who has a Nobel Prize. Second, they work on the best available connections, meaning directly at the exchange, where everybody has the same connection parameters. And the use the best available hardware. Third, they do not win, always, they lose money, too. There is a war of algorithms going on. One algo observes what another algo is doing. Think about it - if someone had an only winning algo, they would suck out all the money out of a market - and this is impossible. Fourth, they use statistical algoriths which analise big data and statistically figure out what direction the price most probably will take at the given price level. So, they are statistical probability algorythms.
.ex4/.ex5 files can't be fixed or modified / I'm not a coder!
  • #159
  • Mar 6, 2022 4:27am Mar 6, 2022 4:27am
Quoting joycometh
{quote} And possibly help change the onchart version to MTF
Step-by-step...
Be patient.
.ex4/.ex5 files can't be fixed or modified / I'm not a coder!
  • #160
  • Edited 5:18am Mar 6, 2022 4:35am | Edited 5:18am
Quoting Brambilla
{quote} Thanks for providing this version . I'll let you know by tomorrow in more detail how this version fit in the renko, i 've took a fast look and what came to my eye is : - Generally is like the v3 but the signals come 1 bar later - Some signals of the v4 aren't present in the v3 and viceversa After backtesting it seems also that there 's no more "fake" signal problem, but it still needed to be put a "fresh" indi into the chart on every new bar to not have them . I don't know if you can in someway try to put a ResetFunction on every new bar...
Hello,
By placing this indicator on the chart it will refresh at the start of every minute, start of every 5 minutes or start of every hour depending on configuration and may solve this problem.
Do not forget to check the box "Allow DHL import"
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Autorefresh_v3.0.mq4   2 KB | 337 downloads
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