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vsa with Malcolm

  • #35,181
  • Dec 8, 2021 3:22am Dec 8, 2021 3:22am
One last trade on AC for this area.

No TP, going to hold on to it for a few days. I think the bottom may fall out on it after the 3rd tag.

Today there was a test in the wrong place, followed by strength into the NFP HVC with no positive reaction to the strength, looks like no buyers are left.
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  • #35,182
  • Dec 8, 2021 3:31am Dec 8, 2021 3:31am
SOS 6 on US30?
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  • #35,183
  • Dec 8, 2021 3:44am Dec 8, 2021 3:44am
Quoting Paulscaff1
SOS 6 on US30? {image}
Wide spread down bar pushing through that HVC, I wouldn't.
  • #35,184
  • Dec 8, 2021 3:45am Dec 8, 2021 3:45am
Quick scalp short scalp on EC, price will want to test yesterday's HVC.

Price rallied on the previous bar, very fast action you know there has to be hidden sellers in that bar..

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Closed

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  • #35,185
  • Dec 8, 2021 4:00am Dec 8, 2021 4:00am
Quoting Paulscaff1
SOS 6 on US30? {image}
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  • #35,186
  • Dec 8, 2021 6:56am Dec 8, 2021 6:56am
Quoting freemind
{quote} i suggest you to skip on "deep practice sessions" it will mess your head. he is trigger happy there and trades like a bot- all the up moves and all the down moves (and for most of the time its scalps) and on some of the sessions you can clearly see thats in hindsight. i have watched more than 2+ year of deep practice videos. they are not the best way to learn. i suggest you all his other courses - chart reading mastery, premium bar by bar, tops &bottoms, wyckoff in modern markets, trend trading, essential wyckoff playbook (Was quite short,...
Appreciate the clarification. I will make a short list of the courses you recommend. I think unconsciously, my main hope around the Deep Practice session was that there would be opportunities for interactions between traders that I could leverage, but I'm not sure if that's the case? I know Dayton said in a recent (free) webinar that there is no chat available for the Deep Practice sessions.

One of my favorite parts of trading is the learning aspect, but I think historically it has made me a jack of all trades (pun intended) and a master of none, so I've been refocused on drilling around the fundamentals and only learning new material when I hit a roadblock. With all the free VSA content on forums I probably shouldn't be buying any new courses anytime soon anyways
  • #35,187
  • Dec 8, 2021 6:59am Dec 8, 2021 6:59am
Quoting Macallik
{quote} Appreciate the clarification. I will make a short list of the courses you recommend. I think unconsciously, my main hope around the Deep Practice session was that there would be opportunities for interactions between traders that I could leverage, but I'm not sure if that's the case? I know Dayton said in a recent (free) webinar that there is no chat available for the Deep Practice sessions. One of my favorite parts of trading is the learning aspect, but I think historically it has made me a jack of all trades (pun intended) and a master...
Hows your overall progress going mate?
  • #35,188
  • Dec 8, 2021 7:46am Dec 8, 2021 7:46am
Quoting Macallik
{quote} Appreciate the clarification. I will make a short list of the courses you recommend. I think unconsciously, my main hope around the Deep Practice session was that there would be opportunities for interactions between traders that I could leverage, but I'm not sure if that's the case? I know Dayton said in a recent (free) webinar that there is no chat available for the Deep Practice sessions. One of my favorite parts of trading is the learning aspect, but I think historically it has made me a jack of all trades (pun intended) and a master...
its a webinar format. you can ask questions.
i suggest you stick to one thing. pick a strategy/trading method and really study it a lot, otherwise, the progress will be very slow. my suggestion to you is to focus only on wyckoff as VSA is a simplified version of that (and to my mind lacks several important things). also, be ready that it will take several months (if you are a genius or study every day for several hours) if not then 1-2 years to trade it profitably from that. And if you really master it then you dont care about fundamentals, as you would be able to read the direction of the chart before the news makes the move.

p.s.
from my experience forums are a very slow way of learning, it takes a lot of time and you need to ignore a lot of information posted. its rare you get those golden posts from members. thats why i have set a time limit for them, otherwise hours get burned...
The more you learn the more you earn
  • #35,189
  • Dec 8, 2021 8:18am Dec 8, 2021 8:18am
Quoting Macallik
{quote} Appreciate the clarification. I will make a short list of the courses you recommend. I think unconsciously, my main hope around the Deep Practice session was that there would be opportunities for interactions between traders that I could leverage, but I'm not sure if that's the case? I know Dayton said in a recent (free) webinar that there is no chat available for the Deep Practice sessions. One of my favorite parts of trading is the learning aspect, but I think historically it has made me a jack of all trades (pun intended) and a master...
Augusto over at Smart Money Source is a wizard with wyckoff.

If you want you can join his free discord where he posts some of his setups. You can ask him questions aswell, and/or post your own charts and get his opinion.
  • #35,190
  • Dec 8, 2021 9:23am Dec 8, 2021 9:23am
Quoting freemind
{quote} its a webinar format. you can ask questions. i suggest you stick to one thing. pick a strategy/trading method and really study it a lot, otherwise, the progress will be very slow. my suggestion to you is to focus only on wyckoff as VSA is a simplified version of that (and to my mind lacks several important things). also, be ready that it will take several months (if you are a genius or study every day for several hours) if not then 1-2 years to trade it profitably from that. And if you really master it then you dont care about fundamentals,...
Appreciate the insights. I'm content w/ VSA but I do use Wyckoff occasionally to supplement it/translate ideas back to VSA.. ie Shortening of Thrust on a short term timeframe will show up in VSA as squat bars on a long term timeframe, etc. I've been practicing daily since May and don't have any misgivings about the time it will take. Hopefully I'm one of those people that takes 1-2 years instead of 5-10 years but only time will tell. Speaking of which, I track most of my time via a website/app called Toggl. It has been helpful when it comes to seeing where most of my time goes. For example, I recently worked on spending more time actually trading (drills/scrimmages) and less time aimlessly reading or killing time (admin):
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Quoting freemind
p.s. from my experience forums are a very slow way of learning, it takes a lot of time and you need to ignore a lot of information posted. its rare you get those golden posts from members. thats why i have set a time limit for them, otherwise hours get burned...
I agree 100% with this. What I realized was that true belief only comes with repetition and so the forums might be good initially for idea generation or sticking points, but the solo time putting in reps is what makes or breaks a system imo. Even when Hidden Gap takes the time to explain Sharpshooter for the 10th time, unless I get reps with it, I don't actually believe in the system and will likely execute it poorly and/or bail on it as soon as I experience a few stop outs.

I still frequent forums, Telegrams and Discords, but not nearly to the extent I used to. I also have a time limit to them and, outside of this thread, I only frequent them once or twice a week. Again, thanks to tracking, I recently cut back on my usage:
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I am with you on the golden nuggets too. There's a lot of noise that you have to sift through, and even then, those posts are the most fruitful only when you are stuck and the post applies directly to your issue. What I've done recently is copy the insightful posts (and their themes) into a document and then when I'm stuck, instead of cruising the internet forums, I refer to the relevant section of the document (ie trend/SoS/Entries/etc). I'll probably share it w/ the forum when I clean the formatting up a bit and cite sources.

Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} Hows your overall progress going mate?
I've been chugging along man. I've come a long way but still have a ways to go. I think it's dope that you share your monthly stats in your signature btw. I'm always rooting for it to be keep going up whenever I visit this thread lol. I plan on doing something similar once I wrap up my backtesting. One related question I was always curious about was whether you are backtesting along with your forward-testing to get in more reps in?
  • #35,191
  • Dec 8, 2021 10:05am Dec 8, 2021 10:05am
Quoting Macallik
{quote}One related question I was always curious about was whether you are backtesting along with your forward-testing to get in more reps in?
To be honest mate I dont but I probably should.

I used to backtest some simple strategies on Tradingview when I started trading, but not much.

When I moved onto supply and demand I bought forex tester, and was excited to start blasting out trades to get more reps in like you say, but the software seemed a bit clunky and it was taking me ages to draw the zones and enter the trades, calculate the risk an all that and to be honest my lack of patience got the better of me.

Theres a cracked version of soft4x flying about, which I installed but never really used, but it would be ideal for testing as I could use my normal template.

I dont know what it is but i struggle with patience for backtesting, where as I can stare at the charts for 8 hours a day live trading....maybe its because theres money on the line it holds my attention .

My evaluation ends on Friday so I wont be live trading again till after the new year, so the few weeks off will be ideal to do some backtesting on Soft4x.

Thanks for reminding me about the importance of backtesting though
  • #35,192
  • Dec 8, 2021 10:55am Dec 8, 2021 10:55am
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} To be honest mate I don't but I probably should. I used to backtest some simple strategies on TradingView when I started trading, but not much. When I moved onto supply and demand I bought forex tester, and was excited to start blasting out trades to get more reps in like you say, but the software seemed a bit clunky and it was taking me ages to draw the zones and enter the trades, calculate the risk an all that and to be honest my lack of patience got the better of me. There's a cracked version of soft4x flying about, which I installed but...
I'm trying to refrain from the forums as much but everything today has been right up my alley.

TradingView definitely makes every other UI look like a webpage from the 90s, but it has such mediocre backtesting abilities. For the last few months, I have been backtesting via TradingView, and literally in the past week I decided to restart w/ Soft4Fx (I also have Forex Tester 5 and was underwhelmed given the cost).

I've only had two days of backtesting on Soft4Fx so far, but I'm starting to feel like TradingView unconsciously stunted my growth. With TradingView backtesting, the timeframes are completely disconnected from each other, so it's hard to jump between multiple timeframes without spoiling upcoming price action. I worked around this by developing a directional bias on the Daily and then just sticking to the 30m for the entire sim day which, I believe led me to develop a blind spot where I focus on the short term timeframe too heavily intraday, instead of only drilling down when I see confirmation on a larger intraday timeframe such as the hourly.

MT4/Soft4Fx on the other hand is much more realistic. Don't get me wrong, the platform is outdated, the time zones are wrong, the drawing tools suck, and I had to download a wonky indicator to create HLC bars... but it allows me to develop better habits thanks to sync'd timeframes.

I hear you on backtesting feeling like a waste of time. One thing that worked for me that might help is that I banned myself from live trading as much as I wanted to until I hit certain thresholds backtesting. Because I'm so antsy to trade live, my paper-losses via backtesting felt more real because in my head it was stopping me from making actual money. It led me to take backtesting more seriously, and the reward for it all is live trading, and ideally the light at the end of the tunnel that is consistent, unlimited profits.

Enjoy your time off!
  • #35,193
  • Edited 12:19pm Dec 8, 2021 11:28am | Edited 12:19pm
Quoting Macallik
{quote} I'm trying to refrain from the forums as much but everything today has been right up my alley. TradingView definitely makes every other UI look like a webpage from the 90s, but it has such mediocre backtesting abilities. For the last few months, I have been backtesting via TradingView, and literally in the past week I decided to restart w/ Soft4Fx (I also have Forex Tester 5 and was underwhelmed given the cost). I've only had two days of backtesting on Soft4Fx so far, but I'm starting to feel like TradingView unconsciously stunted...
I know what you mean about the tradingview timeframes thing when using bar replay . It would be ideal if they would do something with that.

But yeah your post has certainly put me in the mood do do some soft4x.

P.S ive not used it yet, apart from check to see if it works. But do your drawings synch across the timeframes? I know that youve got to load up each timeframe seperately. Im used to just having 1 chart per pair and using the timeframe selection, so never used multiple charts of the same pair.

Edit: its cool mate, I saw the "clone objects" button.
  • #35,194
  • Dec 8, 2021 12:25pm Dec 8, 2021 12:25pm
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} P.S ive not used it yet, apart from check to see if it works. But do your drawings synch across the timeframes? I know that youve got to load up each timeframe seperately. Im used to just having 1 chart per pair and using the timeframe selection, so never used multiple charts of the same pair.
Not automatically. When you have a drawing selected, click on the "clone/update selected" option to copy/paste it on all timeframes (See attached).

Some more quick tips:

  1. To save all of your drawings, right click a chart -> Template -> Save template

     

    1. Any template you save as offline.tpl will automatically load whenever you start Soft4Fx.
    2. Any template you save as default.tpl will automatically load whenever you start MT4


  2. When backtesting, I usually use the offline template for non-entry-level charts to keep my drawings are consistent. With my entry chart, I usually save it separately since it has a lot more drawings that would clutter up a larger timeframe.
  3. Use Visual Mode to drag your entries/exits more easily
  4. There is also a 'Template' section within the Soft4Fx box. Use that to set loose parameters around the typical distance between your entries/stop-loss/exits for slightly more efficiency
  5. Save early and often to avoid losing your backtesting history in case your computer freezes or does a scheduled restart to update the OS

And finally, anticipate and accept that there will be an initial learning curve and it will be less frustrating. It's nowhere near TradingView in terms of UI, but the backtesting aspects are stellar. I have exported my drawdown per trade and created an Excel formula to turn it into a % of my stop to get an idea of how much heat I can expect per trade. Things like that are not possible in TradingView or would be extremely time-consuming. Find ways to use the additional data to help you in becoming a better trader and you won't miss TradingView's UI nearly as much.

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  • #35,195
  • Dec 8, 2021 12:52pm Dec 8, 2021 12:52pm
Quoting Macallik
{quote} Not automatically. When you have a drawing selected, click on the "clone/update selected" option to copy/paste it on all timeframes (See attached). Some more quick tips: To save all of your drawings, right click a chart -> Template -> Save template Any template you save as offline.tpl will automatically load whenever you start Soft4Fx. Any template you save as default.tpl will automatically load whenever you start MT4 When backtesting, I usually use the offline template for non-entry-level charts to keep my drawings are consistent. With...

Legend mate, thanks for the tips
  • #35,196
  • Edited 1:41pm Dec 8, 2021 12:57pm | Edited 1:41pm
any1 caught EU long today? UJ and EJ also nice options.. haven t traded after EURCHF BE trade, which was also a long, so got that wrong, luckily we re able to see SOS or SOW in real time and adjust accordingly
  • #35,197
  • Edited 2:03pm Dec 8, 2021 1:45pm | Edited 2:03pm
Quoting 1odi
any1 caught EU long today? UJ and EJ also nice options.. haven t traded after EURCHF BE trade, which was also a long, so got that wrong, luckily we re able to see SOS or SOW in real time and adjust accordingly
I took UJ long this morning mate, got stopped out by a big wide range bar that appeared (dont know if it was omicron news or something, then proceeded to go and hit target.

I tried another entry in the afternoon, it was a break and retest, with a test into a trigger bar. Price failed to break the top of the range though so i took a hit on that aswell.
  • #35,198
  • Dec 8, 2021 2:06pm Dec 8, 2021 2:06pm
What can I do to better read VSA chart? All my analysis when I am trying to find a good setup, a few signals like today selling climax, shakeout, effort and test and it failed... All my trades are failing.
Daytrader
  • #35,199
  • Dec 8, 2021 3:05pm Dec 8, 2021 3:05pm
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} Looks like you were right about EJ yesterday, it managed to push through that supply. I moved my stop to breakeven when the spread started narrowing at that resistance so I got tagged out on the retracement, would have been a nice trade though. {image}
Look that ATR HISTOGRAM indicator which you sent and you said that it is the same. It is diffrent.
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Daytrader
  • #35,200
  • Dec 8, 2021 3:37pm Dec 8, 2021 3:37pm
Quoting trezo
What can I do to better read VSA chart? All my analysis when I am trying to find a good setup, a few signals like today selling climax, shakeout, effort and test and it failed... All my trades are failing.
Trezo dont get discourage, trading VSA or volume is not the end of the world, volume is very difficult to interpret and is always different otherwise you will learn basic VSA concepts that are very clear and everyone would make money.

My advice is to simplify things, for example on your last chart you have 2 moving averages, that is good to decide on the trend, look for the price to be between the 2 moving averages and only there look for VSA signals like effort vs result and no demand or stopping volume that is form by a clear pin bar.

So basically trade with the trend and find a couple of signals that you are comfortable and are clear to you and use them as triggers to get into your trades.

If you want more confirmation you can use On balance Volume indicator and see if volume is moving with price.

My advice like I said is to simplify things, VSA is very good for people that get it but is not the only system. I tried for years to learn it and it never worked for me. But after reading and seeing how Hidden Gap and Pres78 I have added things that they use to trading and I have been able to use volume my way and it has nothing to do with VSA.

Good luck
Kind Regards
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