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Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} and the only real competitor is MFF. I don't take any firm other than FTMO or MFF seriously at all at this point.
Take a look at the 5ers as well. They have a direct funding model with NO challenge and they are releasing a 100k bootcamp where you can earn a 100k funded account for only 300 euros. The kicker is you only pay 50 euros upfront and the rest you pay ONLY when you pass. You can also have 3 accounts with them. When you take in to account everything, technology, customer support, funding models, payouts, reputation and more, The 5ers is #1 in my opinion.

Also, with the 5ers you can withdraw profits whenever you want...
Quoting snowdonred
purely because they are comparing them with the prices charged for similar packages from other prop firms
-It is okay for me...let them compare and complain. Put pressure on these firms to stay competitive.
Quoting Mdot
{quote} Take a look at the 5ers as well. They have a direct funding model with NO challenge and they are releasing a 100k bootcamp where you can earn a 100k funded account for only 300 euros. The kicker is you only pay 50 euros upfront and the rest you pay ONLY when you pass. You can also have 3 accounts with them. When you take in to account everything, technology, customer support, funding models, payouts, reputation and more, The 5ers is #1 in my opinion. Also, with the 5ers you can withdraw profits whenever you want...
Thanks, yes, I am aware and scrutinize pretty much every offer out there. Been trading with props for 18+ months now. Here is a recent post comparing FTMO, MFF and the 5%ers

Just ran the numbers for MFF and FTMO vs the 5%ers. This is taking your initial fee and assuming rate of return against allowable DD ONLY in each program, not the "balance" provided.

MFF $979 fee for 24K in DD, need 16K profit stage 1 and 10K profit stage 2, $979 in personal account would yield $2310 at end of those 2 stages
So with MFF, you will have 24K allowable loss to trade after passing the 2 stages vs $2310 in a personal account, so more than 10X benefit to trader
MFF will also have paid $1816 back to you at this point 2% stage 1, 4% stage 2 and 112% refund of fee

FTMO $1250 fee for 20K in DD, need 20K profit stage 1 and 10K profit stage 2, $1250 in personal account would yield $3750 at end of those 2 stages
So with FTMO, you will have 20K allowable loss to trade after passing 2 stages vs $3750 in a personal account, so more than 5X benefit to trader
FTMO will also have paid $1250 back to you for refund of the fee

Here's where it gets good...

5%ers $875 fee( Ithink it's actually closer to 1K now, as it looks like they had a price increase) for $800 in DD, need $1400 profit in stage 1 then they will 4x your allowable loss to $3200, then every stage after they 2X, profit targets are $8K, 16K, 32K and 64 K at the completion of all of this you will have scaled to the 1.28 million dollar "account" , still 4% DD, so $51,200 allowable loss. $800 in personal account would yield $361,044 at the end of those stages.
To be fair, you will be paid $63,700 with your 50% split from the 5%ers, so deduct that from $361,044 to get $297,344.
So with The 5%ers, you will have $51,200 allowable loss after getting to the top of their model vs. $297,344 in a personal account a -6X factor to the trader



Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Thanks, yes, I am aware and scrutinize pretty much every offer out there. Been trading with props for 18+ months now. Here is a recent post comparing FTMO, MFF and the 5%ers Just ran the numbers for MFF and FTMO vs the 5%ers. This is taking your initial fee and assuming rate of return against allowable DD ONLY in each program, not the "balance" provided. MFF $979 fee for 24K in DD, need 16K profit stage 1 and 10K profit stage 2, $979 in personal account would yield $2310 at end of those 2 stages So with MFF, you will have 24K allowable loss...
The new bootcamp requires you to earn 8% 3x with 5% max loss vs. 10% and 5% with 10% max loss with FTMO and 8% and 5% with 12% max loss with MFF. $300 euros is about $350, so only $100 less than MFF 100K account. Not impressed.
A BBC documentary that talks about FTMO: Instatraders
Always ready to help
Quoting pipmaster77
I am aware and scrutinize pretty much every offer out there.
-Yeah, regarding 5ers bootcamp, I do not see the benefit at all. Seems like they are trying to target low-income traders, which is fine, but it is just not for me.

A point to mention, is that they offer unlimited, any-time withdrawals where they charge you either $15 or 3% "handling fee" after your first withdrawal within each month.

A questionable point about this, other than the fee itself, is that they do not include this information at the top of the FAQ page, where you would expect it to be, under 'How do traders request profit payouts?', where they literally state "every funded trader can withdraw their profit-share anytime, as often as they want, with no minimum or maximum threshold.", but instead, have it buried at the bottom of the FAQ page, under 'Getting paid for profits'. It almost seems as they are hoping that people will not see it.

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In addition to this, they do not offer indices, which is an automatic, no-thanks for me.

That being said, I do not think that FTMO would appreciate the 5ers mention here.

Quoting PaulMF
BBC documentary that talks about FTMO
-That documentary is biased trash intended for the uninformed and uneducated. It is insulting to even post that here.
Quoting PaulMF
A BBC documentary that talks about FTMO: Instatraders
Yea a fair bit of that was typical BBC's stretching "convenient" facts to keep things interesting for viewers IIRC.
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Yeah, regarding 5ers bootcamp, I do not see the benefit at all. Seems like they are trying to target low-income traders, which is fine, but it is just not for me. A point to mention, is that they offer unlimited, any-time withdrawals where they charge you either $15 or 3% "handling fee" after your first withdrawal within each month. A questionable point about this, other than the fee itself, is that they do not include this information at the top of the FAQ page, where you would expect it to be, under 'How do traders request profit payouts?',...
Yes, didn't realize I was in the FTMO thread, thought I was in the prop firm thread. So regarding withdrawals and without mentioning the two firms name I use, they both offer biweekly payouts, just alternate them so you are getting paid weekly.
I think that it is almost an abuse for a trader to have a challerger account at 7 or 8% in profit without committing infractions or violations of the rules and not reaching 10% due to lack of time, this is unacceptable, this shows that FTMO is more interested than you
one fails in the attempt, the trader who makes 7 or 8% is a forex professional that simple, those are your rules and your company, but I hope that you change the conditions about the time or percentage or that another company makes changes to good of the traders
Be happy, friendly, humble and winner!!
Quoting pipmaster77
FTMO thread
-No worries. My comment was in reference to Mdot. It just seemed like a strange inclusion.
Quoting Ak386
I think that it is almost an abuse for a trader to have a challerger account at 7 or 8% in profit without committing infractions or violations of the rules and not reaching 10% due to lack of time, this is unacceptable, this shows that FTMO is more interested than you one fails in the attempt, the trader who makes 7 or 8% is a forex professional that simple, those are your rules and your company, but I hope that you change the conditions about the time or percentage or that another company makes changes to good of the traders
It's not about professional traders, it's about serious traders.
Always ready to help
Quoting Ak386
I think that it is almost an abuse for a trader to have a challerger account at 7 or 8% in profit without committing infractions or violations of the rules and not reaching 10% due to lack of time, this is unacceptable, this shows that FTMO is more interested than you one fails in the attempt, the trader who makes 7 or 8% is a forex professional that simple, those are your rules and your company, but I hope that you change the conditions about the time or percentage or that another company makes changes to good of the traders
The free retry is nice, but you have to start over. Another firm I use will give a 30 day extension if you are in profit with no rules breached. This, however, is in lieu of additional free retakes. You either get a one time extension or unlimited free retakes ( of course, must be in profit at the end for either)
Although this is not an issue for me, I never understood the need to impose a time-limit on challenges, especially since there are no monthly profit targets, and in some cases, no minimum trading days for funded accounts.

I do see many traders complaining about this issue, though, so maybe this is something that FTMO can consider changing.
Hello everyone,

let me welcome you to another FTMO update here on ForexFactory, the last October one actually. There are just a few topics to discuss today, so let’s start the usual trading updates.

Daylight Saving Time in Europe: On Sunday 31 October at 03:00 CEST, the timing will shift from the current summertime CEST (GMT+2) to CET (GMT+1). Platform time will remain unchanged (GMT+3) until 07 November, when the DST will become effective in North America as well.
This means that for this transition period, the difference between CET time, on which your Maximum Daily Losses are calculated, and Platform time will be 2 hours. Therefore kindly manage your trades accordingly. We recommend that you use the Timezone Converter which is available in the left column of your Account MetriX.
The Trading hours table, expressed in the platform time, will be updated on Sunday, 31 October, for the only EU Equities, which are the only symbols experiencing a temporary shift of one hour ahead

The forum has been rather quiet during the past week, but nonetheless, I would like to respond to a few questions that have appeared here:


Quoting Nsak3y
Hello, again. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my suggestions. Regarding the daily loss limit, I understand your reasoning and respect your decision to stick to that. I do know that not every firm will share the same risk appetite, and that is completely reasonable. Regarding scaling, I am fully aware of your scaling plan, but was simply asking if you would ever consider a more aggressive plan. I do believe that the added risk can be fully-mitigated if such a program were structured correctly. As such, I do hope that you will reconsider...
Hello Nsak3y, I have to admit that getting in touch with traders even outside of formal email communication, so you’re definitely welcome.
The Scaling plan is meant to be used by constant traders that are able to continually generate profits both for themselves and our company. This of course usually requires a more conservative approach to trading and that is why the goal for the Scaling plan is currently set to 10% after 4 months of trading on the FTMO Account. We do not consider increasing the initial balance of traders who do make higher profits at the cost of a bigger risk as responsible.
But as always, the industry is very dynamic, so I’m not saying that the Scaling plan will never be enhanced/adjusted in the future, but as far as I know, we’re currently focused on the development of different fields.

Quoting yogayoga
Hi Vitek, first thing first I would like to thank you for your presence and your prompt responses here. I am wondering why FTMO doesn't align the reset time of Max Daily Loss to the mt4 server time. At now, traders are penalized because the increases in spreads that regularly occurs gradually starting from 22:55 CET (23:55 mt4 server time for FTMO accounts) and the reset of max daily loss occurs at 00:00 CET and not at 00:00 mt4 server time......this means that any time that a trader go overnight and he has a negative open p&l he could lose the...
Hello Yogayoga, first of all, you’re welcome!
The Max Daily Loss reset time has been aligned with the server time until March 2021 when we finally decided to adjust the server time from CE(S)T (GMT+1 during the wintertime, GMT+2 during the summertime) firmly to GMT+3.
The reason behind the decision were the so-called “Sunday candles”, or “double weekly opening” of the market that was appearing due to the fact that when the platform time was aligned with the CE(S)T, trading days were actually starting at 11 PM of the previous day instead of exactly midnight. This was creating the previously mentioned fake Sunday candles that were greatly disturbing technical traders and especially their technical analysis tools, upon which we were regularly receiving plenty of complaints. I also found the posts where my colleague Tomas was addressing the issue - if you’d like to have a read, you can find those posts here and here.
This is of course a complicated topic as there will be always somebody that would rather have the server time aligned. In this case, we unfortunately can not make everyone happy, so thank you for understanding.


Alright, very quick update article today, yet including important information. I hope you'll all have a great weekend and I will be back next Friday hopefully with more exciting news. Stay tuned & I'll see you then.
-Vitek
Quoting Nsak3y
Although this is not an issue for me, I never understood the need to impose a time-limit on challenges, especially since there are no monthly profit targets, and in some cases, no minimum trading days for funded accounts. I do see many traders complaining about this issue, though, so maybe this is something that FTMO can consider changing.
Well, keep in mind, nobody has ever denied the challenge fees are an important part of the income stream as well. There is nothing wrong with that, they are transparent about it and they do execute trades in the live market as well. The time limit obviously creates more failures, not only due to the time but also the pressure, so one may be inclined to take trades they otherwise wouldn't or trade larger sizes than they otherwise would. The companies with no time limit simpy charge a fee equal to or greater than the DD they allow, so of course no time limit, there is no risk to them their income is derived from you essentially funding your own account with the fee you paid them and then they just take 40-50% of your profits for allowing you the "privilege" of funding your own account.

With all that being said, you will never find a challenge model with no time limit to pass nor will you ever find a direct funding company with no time limit charging less than the DD they allow. There would be no income for the company in either of those scenarios. You simply pick your poison. IMO, the challenge models are the only option and are in all cases atleast a 20X better deal in relation to DD vs fee. If you're going to use a direct funding, fee equal to DD model, you DO NOT NEED A PROP FIRM.
Quoting pipmaster77
The time limit obviously creates more failures, not only due to the time but also the pressure, so one may be inclined to take trades they otherwise wouldn't or trade larger sizes than they otherwise would.
-Yeah, that's true.

If we are being honest, though, I do think that having a time-limit would really not matter in the grand scheme of things, since they would likely still have a ton of failed challenges anyway. If we were being wishful thinkers, we might even claim that any reputable firm will actually want their traders to succeed.


Quoting pipmaster77
you will never find a challenge model with no time limit to pass nor will you ever find a direct funding company with no time limit charging less than the DD they allow.
-I think I have seen some, but none that I would be willing to try or that look interesting me.
pipmaster77 The free retry is nice, but you have to start over. Another firm I use will give a 30 day extension if you are in profit with no rules breached. This, however, is in lieu of additional free retakes. You either get a one time extension or unlimited free retakes ( of course, must be in profit at the end for either)[/quote]

Good news is evolving for the good of traders, what companies are these?
Be happy, friendly, humble and winner!!
Quoting Vitek-ftmo;
We do not consider increasing the initial balance of traders who do make higher profits at the cost of a bigger risk as responsible.
-Hello, again. Happy Friday to everyone over at FTMO.

As usual, thank you for taking the time to reply here and for keeping everyone updated on recent news.

Please allow me the opportunity to clarify my suggestion regarding scaling.

If you structured the scaling plan in such a way that it was optional, for example, once a trader generates 10%/20% profit on their account, they could have the option to elect to keep those profits in the account to serve as draw-down protection in order to be scaled up faster, then you can mitigate the additional risk to investor capital as a result of increasing the account size. The 10%/20% would be locked in the account and become part of the base balance until/unless the trader decided to withdraw it at a later time, which would result in a roll-back to the previous scale-up level.

Not all traders would want to do this, so it would need to be optional. For those that do not want to keep their profits in their account in order to scale up, they can simply scale up in the traditional way, in 4-month phases. For those that are willing to leverage their profits to serve as draw-down protection, it would allow them to scale up faster and take advantage of additional, daily draw-down allowance.

It would be little different than a trader that elects to keep partial profits in their account and pad their account in order to increase their overall/maximum draw-down allowance. The only difference would be that they would be able to increase their daily limits by having a larger account balance - but without the added risk to FTMO and their investors, since the draw-down would be covered by the trader's profits.

Since you will not consider removing the daily draw-down limits, this could possibly serve as a reasonable compromise. And if not this, then instead of increasing the account balance, just simply allow traders to pad their daily draw-down allowance each month by keeping profits in the account.

I respect that FTMO may not be interested in doing that, but my hope is that they would at least consider it by weighing all pros/cons and alternative solutions. All-too-often, suggestions are quickly dismissed without considering all possibilities and without giving those ideas a proper chance. Thanks.
Thank you FTMO. Got my payout & fees refunded. Its amazing the money came in the next day itself from Czech to Malaysia. Their platform & dashboard is also awesome. Thank you!
Vitek,

I have a question about earned profit in an account if it hits the maximum loss.

The trader passes challenge and verification on a $100,000 account and he makes $10,000 keeping maximum losses below parameters on the first month with the real account but he decides NOT to withdraw. It is my understanding that FTMO will take the 20% of the surplus so the trader is to start the month with $108,000 balance in his account. If at that time the trader has a Daily equity DD more than 5% (or $5,400) he looses the account but what happens with the $8,000 surplus that he earn in the previous month at that point? Is the trader still entitled to get them after loosing the account?

Thank you for all your help and guidance!
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