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Attachments: Making 70% Profits Per Annum
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Making 70% Profits Per Annum

  • Post #1
  • Quote
  • First Post: Edited Sep 28, 2021 6:02am Sep 26, 2021 9:37pm | Edited Sep 28, 2021 6:02am
Dear fellow traders,
Let's start talking about making 70% Profits per month in this industry by the retail traders.

Please join to share your experience with your active trades on your charts for posting here.
Trade must be shown active and open in your charts.

You can trade and post here in any Spot Merkets.

Try also to upload your track record bi-weekly. That's the only reason to open this thread here. My Trade Explorer reflects everything what I do.

Thank you all.
One of my strategies made 75% return in 4 years (2017-2020) = 18% annually ...
Market is not random but unpredictable
I had a return of around 20% in a year but that was just demo.
For 70% you need to trade pretty aggressive i'd say.
Quoting 4for4
One of my strategies made 75% return in 4 years (2017-2020) = 18% annually ...
If it was annual it'd be 93.87%. When you say annual you imply geometric rather than arithmetic returns.

1.18*1.18*1.18*1.18=1.93
1.93 - 1 = .93
.93 = 93% annually

If you made 74% in four years, then your annual return would be:

1.75^(1/4)= 1.150
1.150 - 1 = .15
.15 = 15% annually

Basic math.
Quoting split_unit
{quote} If it was annual it'd be 93.87%. When you say annual you imply geometric rather than arithmetic returns. 1.18*1.18*1.18*1.18=1.93 1.93 - 1 = .93 .93 = 93% annually If you made 74% in four years, then your annual return would be: 1.75^(1/4)= 1.150 1.150 - 1 = .15 .15 = 15% annually Basic math.
The 75% return is a non-compounded calculation based on the original capital at the beginning of year 1 … (75 / 4 = 18)
Market is not random but unpredictable
  • Post #6
  • Quote
  • Edited Sep 28, 2021 3:00am Sep 27, 2021 5:56am | Edited Sep 28, 2021 3:00am
Quoting QueFx
Dear fellow traders, let's start talking about making 70% Profits in this industry is possible by the retail traders? Please share your experience and views regarding this.
EDIT: Unless I was missing something yesterday, I believe the thread title and opening post have been changed since I wrote this to "70% per month" rather than just "70%" previously, which I took to mean per annum. To be clear, 70% per month is a ridiculous pipe dream, the risk levels required to be assumed to achieve that absolutely guarantee eventual failure. The comments below relate to trying to achieve 70% pa.

Hi,
It's perfectly possible with even a pretty mediocre system, as long as you have enough goes and stick to it with excellent discipline and risk control.
Take a system with a 55% success rate (that's 1 net winner in every 10 trades) and just a flat 1:1 risk:reward (i.e. winners and losers are the same size). Risk only a 1% of your account each trade (that's quite conservative) and take 3 trades a day for a full year (fairly typical daytrading activity); call it 233 days a year which still leaves you a full month off for holidays. That gives you 700 trades for the year with 1 net winner in every 10, so 70 net winners. With per trade risk & reward both at a 1% account level that's your 70% pa, uncompounded.

The above metrics are not asking that much in themselves: 55% success rate, 1:1 RR, 1% per trade risk, and 3 trades a day for 11 months. You can tweak them for different trading styles but the basic message is the same: it should be quite achievable but not so many traders appear to get there. Why not? I'd suggest it is a question of discipline. You have to grind along in exactly the same way for a full 700 trades, every day, all year long. With a 55% success rate there are going inevitably to be strings of losers but you just have to keep on going. And never ease up on the risk control, each and every time your losing trades hit the -1% level you take the loss; no loosening the stop or doubling up. No exceptions.

This level of discipline and consistency is really hard to keep up, day in, day out. That's why achieving the 70% pa is difficult, not because it requires some amazingly good system. It doesn't, but it does require some pretty impressive discipline, consistency and risk control from the trader.
nice topic
there's no one in the world of trading in general make 75% a year and in forex it's impossible
all the data it's live you just need to go to google and search for pro traders
here it's goldman sachs return for every year and i dont think someone here in forexfactory got a trading strategy better then those people

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...goldman-sachs/

that the big problem in the world of retails traders when it come to trading they think with 100$ they will be millionaires within one year
that just fibs
Quoting Oldtraderman
{quote} Hi, It's perfectly possible with even a pretty mediocre system, as long as you have enough goes and stick to it with excellent discipline and risk control. Take a system with a 55% success rate (that's 1 net winner in every 10 trades) and just a flat 1:1 risk:reward (i.e. winners and losers are the same size). Risk only a 1% of your account each trade (that's quite conservative) and take 3 trades a day for a full year (fairly typical daytrading activity); call it 233 days a year which still leaves you a full month off for holidays. That...
the hardest part is to get the 55% success rate at 1:1 RR in the first place
Thank you dear fellows. And thanks to Old Trader Man sharing your thoughts here. Will expect more from you again.
I have created a trade explorer regarding this. Let's see how much I can make in a month.
I am Buying Euro.
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Quoting Oldtraderman
{quote} Hi, It's perfectly possible with even a pretty mediocre system, as long as you have enough goes and stick to it with excellent discipline and risk control. Take a system with a 55% success rate (that's 1 net winner in every 10 trades) and just a flat 1:1 risk:reward (i.e. winners and losers are the same size). Risk only a 1% of your account each trade (that's quite conservative) and take 3 trades a day for a full year (fairly typical daytrading activity); call it 233 days a year which still leaves you a full month off for holidays. That...
As an old school trader, how do you think of quantitative trading which becomes really popular nowadays? A system with 30% annual return is considered good. However, it's low for individuals to have a return like that, IMHO. 30% return is big for institutions because their capital is pretty big. For individuals, there are more better options.
Discretionary Quantitative Trader
Quoting zkchyo
{quote} As an old school trader, how do you think of quantitative trading which becomes really popular nowadays? A system with 30% annual return is considered good. However, it's low for individuals to have a return like that, IMHO. 30% return is big for institutions because their capital is pretty big. For individuals, there are more better options.
Hi zkchyo,
At my age, have to admit I am indeed old school! The question you pose about quant trading is very relevant to me as it is one of the reasons I decided to stop being an investment manager and go out trading on my own for a living instead. I find quant trading/investing all a little soulless and its rise in the investment world rather took a lot of the fun out of the business, for me at least. In terms of achieved returns, industry-wide, I don't see a lot of net change due to the emergence of quant, though it appears to me that it does control risk and variability a little better because of the rigorous statistical approach it takes.

On the matter of returns by big institutions vs individuals, the institutions don't target huge returns because they don't need to in order to operate their businesses. The single biggest pool of invested funds is for pensions and that is a long term slow-and-steady game where minimising the risk of significant loss is rather more important than windfall gains. Risk and return are inherently correlated, and in general the big institutions play at a lower risk level than individuals.
  • Post #12
  • Quote
  • Edited at 5:01am Sep 28, 2021 3:16am | Edited at 5:01am
Trader Man,
Your views are valuable for us. Being an old trader we want to utilize your knowledge regarding returns from the Market. Can you share or post your trading Charts and Trades?
Quoting QueFx
Trader Man, Your views are valuable for us. Being an old trader we want to utilize your knowledge regarding returns from the Market. Can you share or post your trading Charts and Trades?
Hi QueFx,
If you want 70% per month I really can't help you. Please see my edit to post #6 in reponse to you changing the thread title and opening post
Quoting Oldtraderman
{quote} Hi zkchyo, At my age, have to admit I am indeed old school! The question you pose about quant trading is very relevant to me as it is one of the reasons I decided to stop being an investment manager and go out trading on my own for a living instead. I find quant trading/investing all a little soulless and its rise in the investment world rather took a lot of the fun out of the business, for me at least. In terms of achieved returns, industry-wide, I don't see a lot of net change due to the emergence of quant, though it appears to me that...
Thanks for your reply. It's a very rare opportunity to talk to someone who's inside the industry and would like to share an insightful opinion. If we design an indicator looks like $profit per $risk, institutions are probably the best, right? Then, what advantage do you think non-quant traders have over quant traders?
Discretionary Quantitative Trader
Quoting zkchyo
{quote} Thanks for your reply. It's a very rare opportunity to talk to someone who's inside the industry and would like to share an insightful opinion. If we design an indicator looks like $profit per $risk, institutions are probably the best, right? Then, what advantage do you think non-quant traders have over quant traders?

Hi zkchyo,
Risk adjusted measures of return, e.g Sharpe Ratio, have been widespread in the investment business for a long time now; they do make some sense as they are at least trying to equate returns achieved with risk assumed in doing so. The institutions are very interested in risk efficiency, i.e. capturing as much return as possible for every point of risk assumed, and this is again perfectly sensible. This desire helps to explain why rigorous quantitative methods are popular in the industry. Institutions have a lot of clever people doing this kind of stuff so, yes, institutions are way better at it than the average individual.

But you don't have to do rigorous quant to make decent money without undue risk trading as an individual. What you do need, though, is an excellent understanding of risk control in your trading. Your position size relative to your account size and very robust stop loss disciplines are essential to this. This is not heavy end quant, it's just basic understanding and control of risk. Trading ultimately comes down to good risk management and you don't have to be a PhD in mathematics to do that effectively.

As for advantage of quant over non-quant, I'd say they are just different approaches to the task, not one necessarily better or worse than the other, but you do need some basic statistical understanding of what you are doing to be able to effectively control the risk in your trading.
Reply to people think that it's impossible to have very high returns.
We CFD traders are like CTA institutional traders because we trade for profits (capital gains).
The following links are the CTA type hedge funds 2020 annual returns managed by discretionary traders.

<10M:
https://portal.barclayhedge.com/cgi-...10&is_yearly=1
>10M:
https://portal.barclayhedge.com/cgi-...10&is_yearly=1
Discretionary Quantitative Trader
Quoting Oldtraderman
{quote} Hi zkchyo, Risk adjusted measures of return, e.g Sharpe Ratio, have been widespread in the investment business for a long time now; they do make some sense as they are at least trying to equate returns achieved with risk assumed in doing so. The institutions are very interested in risk efficiency, i.e. capturing as much return as possible for every point of risk assumed, and this is again perfectly sensible. This desire helps to explain why rigorous quantitative methods are popular in the industry. Institutions have a lot of clever people...
Thanks again. I've read many posts of yours and found you heavily emphasize on risk management. I used to play poker and I find it interesting that the risk management between trading and poker are similar. It's all about win-ratio, risk-reward and risk% per trade. For instance, if my RR target is 1:3, I only need >25% win-rate to be profitable in long-term with risking 1% of my account per trade. With a little edge to increase my win-rate, the profit will be increased a lot. Some methods also consider the volatility inside the position sizing formula to make the equity curve look better. (High Sharpe ratio) Would you like to open a new post and share more about risk management? I think it's going to be a fascinating read.
Discretionary Quantitative Trader
Quoting zkchyo
{quote} Thanks again. I've read many posts of yours and found you heavily emphasize on risk management. I used to play poker and I find it interesting that the risk management between trading and poker are similar. It's all about win-ratio, risk-reward and risk% per trade. For instance, if my RR target is 1:3, I only need >25% win-rate to be profitable in long-term with risking 1% of my account per trade. With a little edge to increase my win-rate, the profit will be increased a lot. Some methods also consider the volatility inside the position...
Hi zkchyo,
That you bring up a connection between poker & trading is very interesting; I have read the stories of many successful traders who do likewise. I don't play poker myself but I think it's because both share the concept of sensible and controlled risk taking in a game with inherent unpredictability and uncertainty.

As to your suggestion, given the importance of basic risk management to trading, I may in the future address the subject again with a few posts in my second thread, "Keep Calm and Carry on Trading" which I have used to talk about trading rather than post actual trades (those being in my separate journal thread). Thanks for the idea!
Trader Man,
Your views are valuable for us. Being an old trader we want to utilize your knowledge regarding returns from the Market. Can you share or post your trading Charts and Trades?
USDCHF Shorts.
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