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vsa with Malcolm

  • #33,861
  • Aug 23, 2021 2:14pm Aug 23, 2021 2:14pm
guys, i am learning vsa and i have a problem, where place stop loss? immediately close to the signal candle ? or or further behind a candle with a high volume
Daytrader
  • #33,862
  • Aug 24, 2021 4:52am Aug 24, 2021 4:52am
Quoting trezo
guys, i am learning vsa and i have a problem, where place stop loss? immediately close to the signal candle ? or or further behind a candle with a high volume
It's hard to give a solid definitive answer on stop losses. There's a lot that goes into stops and some of those things really depend on you.

1. Your risk tolerance - Some traders hate being stopped out so they trade small lots and big stops, then you have other traders who hate draw so they trade with small stops and larger lots.

2. Your skill as a trader - Most new VSA traders get in early and either price goes against them immediately or price just grinds sideways forever. Something that you need to do is document all your trades. Wait a few days after the trades are complete to get your emotions out of your system and really look at your trades, look at your direction, look at your entry location and your exit. By studying these trades it will tell you, if you are getting in too soon/getting out too soon and how much room do your trades need.

A few things that aren't dependent on the trader that may help.

1. Market conditions - Is price choppy? Trending? Choppy markets you will need to give your trades more room, trending market don't need a lot of room. I tend to look at the past few days open and see how price reacts to the open. If price is flip flopping both above and below the open then its choppy. If price is staying mostly above or below the open then its trending.

2. Also be aware of who's on the other side of your trade. Look at your high volume and see if there are any countermanding signals above or below the high volume. If there are countermanding signals watch for how price reacts to them. If you see weakness just above your high volume strength, you pay attention to how the market is reacting to the low of that weakness. Is price testing the lows of the weakness? Probably bullish. If you see a fast move through the low of the weakness on increasing volume then that weakness will probably hold.

Here is an example.

Bar A - High volume strength

Bar B - ND Up thurst

Bar C - NS test

When I opened my trade, I placed a hard stop just below Bar C. But I was actively watching how price reacted to the low of Bar B. Price testing the low of Bar B is ok, but start seeing fast movement and a push down and I'll start exiting trades. Price moves too fast and my hard stop below C will get me out.
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  • #33,863
  • Aug 24, 2021 11:48am Aug 24, 2021 11:48am
Should I mark lines on the chart like you? Lines from close level.
Do it only from important candles with high volume or which bars?
Daytrader
  • #33,864
  • Aug 24, 2021 11:51am Aug 24, 2021 11:51am
Quoting Anotan
{quote} It's hard to give a solid definitive answer on stop losses. There's a lot that goes into stops and some of those things really depend on you. 1. Your risk tolerance - Some traders hate being stopped out so they trade small lots and big stops, then you have other traders who hate draw so they trade with small stops and larger lots. 2. Your skill as a trader - Most new VSA traders get in early and either price goes against them immediately or price just grinds sideways forever. Something that you need to do is document all your trades. Wait...
I have a question about this trade. What was the reason of close this trade?

I learned all the theory from VSA, books, courses and other. Now I am trying to find a good opportunity on chart to get a position.
Daytrader
  • #33,865
  • Edited 8:20pm Aug 24, 2021 7:56pm | Edited 8:20pm
Quoting trezo
Should I mark lines on the chart like you? Lines from close level. Do it only from important candles with high volume or which bars?
It's up to you how you want to read VSA. I've been posting about high volume closes for years now. You can go through my post history, there are hundreds of charts with explanations. During 2020 I posted like crazy with almost all of them posted as they happened.

You have Pres78's VZA, HiddenGap's Sharp Shooter and my high volume closes. They are all based on the same concept, the difference is what levels you watch. Or you can follow the thread creator Malcolmb, which he just reads PA. Find which approach makes the most sense to you and study it.


Quoting trezo
{quote} I have a question about this trade. What was the reason of close this trade? I learned all the theory from VSA, books, courses and other. Now I am trying to find a good opportunity on chart to get a position.
I exited this trade based on PA.

Bar 1 - This is a sign of Strength

Bar 2 - High Volume up thrust, at this point price is stuck between a rock and a hard place and we have to wait and see what the market tells us.

Bar 3 - No supply test back into the strength on Bar 1. Bar 3 is telling us that no one wants to sell into the strength on Bar 1, good bet price is going up.

Bar 4 - Sign of Strength, down bar closing in the middle.

Bar 5 - As price pushes through the high of the strength on Bar 4, it does this on low volume. This is not a good sign for bulls.

Bar 6 - No demand, low volume and small spread as price is trying to push up from the buyers on Bar 4. This no demand is showing that no one is interested in higher prices after strength comes into the market. You don't want to be long here.
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  • #33,866
  • Aug 25, 2021 12:45am Aug 25, 2021 12:45am
Quoting Anotan
{quote} It's up to you how you want to read VSA. I've been posting about high volume closes for years now. You can go through my post history, there are hundreds of charts with explanations. During 2020 I posted like crazy with almost all of them posted as they happened. You have Pres78's VZA, HiddenGap's Sharp Shooter and my high volume closes. They are all based on the same concept, the difference is what levels you watch. Or you can follow the thread creator Malcolmb, which he just reads PA. Find which approach makes the most sense to you and...
Anotan if you are using VSA a long time and you are good in this. What was the source from you get knowledge? and other ? Only from books?
Daytrader
  • #33,867
  • Aug 25, 2021 1:28am Aug 25, 2021 1:28am
Quoting trezo
{quote} Anotan if you are using VSA a long time and you are good in this. What was the source from you get knowledge? and other ? Only from books?
My knowledge comes from reading Master the Markets and this thread.
  • #33,868
  • Aug 25, 2021 4:59am Aug 25, 2021 4:59am
Here is my trade for today, which didn't work out.

During Asia price came up to a HVC and volume dropped off. I should have sold this during Asia, but honestly I wasn't paying attention and missed the opportunity. Later during the Euro session price rallied and I thought the market was doing me a favor, so I sold the rally.

But look at the yellow box I drew on the M15 chart, PA got really messy. You see weakness, you see strength and price is all over the place. To me, it only made sense to get out of this trade because of that messy action. Price could drop from here and tag yesterday's HVC or it could rally, I'm not sure.
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  • #33,869
  • Aug 25, 2021 12:49pm Aug 25, 2021 12:49pm
These are my positions from today on NQ
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Daytrader
  • #33,870
  • Aug 25, 2021 6:05pm Aug 25, 2021 6:05pm
Quoting trezo
These are my positions from today on NQ {image}
M1 is a really fast time frame. I would go up a few time frames, to at least M15.

Bar A - This bar stalls at your resistance line.

Bar B - Price comes back up and stalls at the same resistance line, good time to close any longs.

Bar C - You have climatic buying volume here

Bar D- This is a hidden test, with the next bar closing higher than the high of this bar, very bullish

Bar E - Price rejecting the lows below the hidden test, good time to be long.

That yellow box, price is stalling back at the same resistance that Bar A and B struggled with. Time to close any longs.
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  • #33,871
  • Aug 25, 2021 8:24pm Aug 25, 2021 8:24pm
Quoting Anotan
Here is my trade for today, which didn't work out. During Asia price came up to a HVC and volume dropped off. I should have sold this during Asia, but honestly I wasn't paying attention and missed the opportunity. Later during the Euro session price rallied and I thought the market was doing me a favor, so I sold the rally. But look at the yellow box I drew on the M15 chart, PA got really messy. You see weakness, you see strength and price is all over the place. To me, it only made sense to get out of this trade because of that messy action. Price...
A follow up to this trade. Trading HVC isn't perfect, on this trade I was expecting price to fall and tag the HVC from Aug 24th.

If you look at this from a VZA stand point it was an obvious long trade. VZA you see price found support off the 50% and rallied.

Bar A - As price returned to the 100%, volume to the down side started drying up. Price did push lower than Bar A, but it was still a clue that down side volume was limited.

Bar B - Healthy volume on an up bar pushing up and through the 100%. The volume on this bar is not excessive nor climatic, just increasing which is very good for bulls.

If you dropped down to a M15 chart there is a failed up thrust you could've taken, depending on if your trading plan includes trading failed strength or failed weakness. There are different approaches to trading VSA, I still love trading HVC but the key take away is find what makes the most sense to you and run with it.
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  • #33,872
  • Aug 26, 2021 1:46am Aug 26, 2021 1:46am
Been paper trading Pres78's method.

Here's an H1 trade from yesterday still running on GBPAUD using a Pres 2BR for entry. It was pretty late in the day though, and I did ignore the HVB that was created during NY session.
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  • #33,873
  • Edited 6:47am Aug 26, 2021 6:16am | Edited 6:47am
Took a loss on this one, saw some stopping volume, then we had a 2BR which closed above the HVZ Low.

I did consider placing stop below the stopping action candle but wasn't comfortable with a 20 pip SL.

(Edit: In hindsight we were below the hinge therefore I should have had a bearish bias despite closing back inside the zone.)
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  • #33,874
  • Aug 26, 2021 6:49am Aug 26, 2021 6:49am
Quoting Paulscaff1
Took a loss on this one, saw some stopping volume, then we had a 2BR which closed above the HVZ Low. I did consider placing stop below the stopping action candle but wasn't comfortable with a 20 pip SL. {image}
The bar you have fibbed showed no signs of buyers being in control so trying to take a long off the low of the zone was very risky. Longs are best taken from either the H of 50% of a zone once the high of the zone has been taken out by buyers... then we want to see buyers and lack of selling as we come back into the top half of the zone. Messy PA but for me, I'd be looking to short right now form the bottom have of that zone.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #33,875
  • Aug 26, 2021 6:58am Aug 26, 2021 6:58am
Quoting pres78
{quote} The bar you have fibbed showed no signs of buyers being in control so trying to take a long off the low of the zone was very risky. Longs are best taken from either the H of 50% of a zone once the high of the zone has been taken out by buyers... then we want to see buyers and lack of selling as we come back into the top half of the zone. Messy PA but for me, I'd be looking to short right now form the bottom have of that zone.

Hi Pres, thanks for your input mate. Yeah totally agree. I reckon now that the GBPAUD H1 trade aswell was a risky play from the bottom half of the zone even though it was good for 3R, but I do notice a safer no-supply entry that happened later on above the hinge.
  • #33,876
  • Aug 26, 2021 7:10am Aug 26, 2021 7:10am
Hesitated on this hidden test bar entry
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  • #33,877
  • Aug 26, 2021 7:21am Aug 26, 2021 7:21am
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} Hi Pres, thanks for your input mate. Yeah totally agree. I reckon now that the GBPAUD H1 trade as well was a risky play from the bottom half of the zone even though it was good for 3R, but I do notice a safer no-supply entry that happened later on above the hinge.
I rarely take longs from the bottom half and shorts from the top half unless the background is perfect and if we are seeing this zone formed within a previous even higher volume zone. Either way, background PA is very important.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #33,878
  • Aug 26, 2021 8:49am Aug 26, 2021 8:49am
How you get in MT4 real data feed?
Daytrader
  • #33,879
  • Aug 26, 2021 9:10am Aug 26, 2021 9:10am
I dont understand these charts...
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Daytrader
  • #33,880
  • Aug 26, 2021 9:21am Aug 26, 2021 9:21am
Quoting trezo
I dont understand these charts... {image}
Look left and see where the current UHV is. Those could have been decent scalp trades back down to the low but until that UHV zone is broken that's all we have.
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Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
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