My way to highway

i try again: i believe this thread isnt the place to discuss this thing.
without disrespect, if something doesnt directly relate to my journal, i try to keep it short, preferable away in PM.
prefer to keep this thread not a chat thread. there are other avenues for that.

i hope you understand this, and importantly do respect it too!

happy trading!
Z

ps. all these post did was to bury away the actual content i was posting to read to others. not a good practice.

it is weekend again.
previous posts about my take on the "brutal truth about daytrading" were seen to be a good read to many, so time to continue.
if missed those posts, you find them here:
time
part #1 https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...0#post13659240
part#2 https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...1#post13659361


"the brutal truth of daytrading" as profitfarmer sees it...
part 3.
a multi-faceted topic:
(unrealistic) EXPECTATIONS

" the very minimum to be a maximalist"

the world is competitive. but ideally, some point a trader learns to handle the competition a healthy way, in the right place.
from childhood, most of us were brought up in a competitive environment, including the school, where all told to perform to their best, and supposedly doing well academically is the key to success: better grades translate to better further education options, more "respected" jobs, etc.
then somewhere along the road, most ppl start to realize that it isn't that simple.
all said to strive to be the top 1-5-10%er...but realistically, can we be all the top few%?
and more importantly: do we need to be the very best to be 'good enough'?
where to draw the lines?
for example, there is an interesting book, by Kiyosaki, on this topic:


"Why the "A" students work for the "C" students, and why "B" students work for the government"

two thoughts from the book:
"those "A Students" who read well, memorize well and test well... and not the creative thinkers, visionaries, and dreamers - entrepreneurs-in-the-making... those "C Students" who grow up to be the innovators and creators of new ideas, businesses, applications, and products."
"The energy cost to go from an A- to an A is generally far greater than the actual learning outcome. Thus, it is often wasted energy. C students don't put more energy into things than they need to. They are efficient, effective, and focused."

many wannabe traders come from the higher-achieving echelon, excelled or been very good in school, solid basic mathematics, statistics, even programming skills.
but real life has some big differences from the school environment.
when most players are good at something, that stops being an extra skill, it is just a base requirement from there on.
at the same time, it is important to demystify trading some, too.
in the end, full-time trading isn't that different from any other profession.
there is many, and a trader doesn't need to be the very best to make a living, just like a bus driver doesn't need to be the very best bus driver to make a living, or a kindergarten teacher doesn't have to be the very best of her profession, or a coal miner doesn't have to be the very best, or a aircon repair man doesn't have to be the best, or...or...or...you name it.
a trader has to be good, like any other need to have a level of proficiency in their job to "succeed" ie keep that job.

but trying to raise the bar too high, it may only have a negative effect, both on the trader, or his performance ( and will talk more about performance expectations later).
it is important to be rational enough, to know what you are and what you are not.
it is important to not to try to pretend something you are not! dont try to fight a battle where easily beaten.
if great at playing racing video games, it doesn't mean great at race car driving on a real track.
if can code a simple EA, that doesn't mean now an algo trader in a sense that big firms are.

setting aside the need to be the top 1-5% of your field, a good step toward starting to focus what you may actually need to make it.
and really, what defines the "make it" part actually.

probably continue from here.
tomorrow, or the next weekend, will see! if you like what you read, let me know. lol
(if someone wants to have the book mentioned, can send it by email...if pm me email address. no worries, i dont spam.)

happy weekend!
Z

Most people are simply going through the motion of trading day in day out.
Win rate, pips won, roi%, beautiful chart showing winning trades, nice TE .....

Have they thought about this above definition when marked against their "expectation"?

In almost all cases, retiring as a forex trader trading for a living 20-30years from today similar to any other normal job - NO.

Ask any clerk, teacher, policeman, engineer, accountant or whatever profession...
Success is not in their vocabulary.
It's just a job for the next 30-40 years.

Top 1-5% in the teaching profession ?
It doesn't apply.
It doesn't apply to every other normal job.

Strangely only for the job of forex trading for a living traders dream about top 5% percentile.
Only in forex trading for a living traders cheer another fellow trader crowning him the "best".
And jeer another trader not in the "best" clique.
Never seen teachers seek out the best 1-5% top notch teacher for guidance or encouragement.
Only in forex trading.

Read the "tone" of their post we know their fantasy "expectation".
It's that simple.
Even simpler for a retiree who has completed his journey.

Good read Zoltan.

Hi BW,
Don't rush ahead!
There is probably a couple more posts I will write on the expectations topic, as said it is a bigger topic, with multiple facets.
I have time; plenty weekends there, still curfew in Thailand at nights, but let's see how this post is received so far.
Of course there is a whole thread on the topic, very loosely on topic actually, but I can't comment there, plus why not try to give a little extra value to those who still like to read my posts, but not in the discord channel, or or not someone I mentored ( those students are fully aware of all these I am writing and more).

The point is to try to offer a no-nonsense take on some important subjects, not fantasy, not anecdotal, but a real, personal take from someone been thru these and still dealing with daily it as a trader.
Meantime I try not to lecture, not writing from a superior stance, don't have an MBA in finance, or institutional trading friends.
Just an average joe striving to make consistent results.
Not market wizard consistent, but dare to say better than average. A living.

Finally I think I disagree on the last part. About forex traders for a living. Both expectations if 5% and clique.
Myself a good example to forfeit both
May address the point a later post.
But a recent example and a shout-out 2 in 1.

Recently on discord channel there was a mention of 'Aussi'. And him having a medical issue, and in hospital.
While as a trader I don't agree with the ways he present things, my comment was that as a fellow men I only wish him recovery. No malice, no agenda. Why would?
So many so quick to think disagreement on something or another equals hate. That is stupid!
Trade to live vs . Live to trade?
I am very vocal about a balance of work vs life. And not mixing it too much...
Anyways, if he reads, hope he is well!

And if anyone like the mini-series, will understand why a like is a feedback, and how it is serves an indication or justification that valuable time isn't wasted. I know many reads and can't bother an extra click, being too much effort, but typing a post an hour I think effort too....if think about it.

Happy weekend!
Z

That's news. He got caught in some controversy with his postings.

It's not wise to show personal details on forum. He should be wise enough for his age.

I wish him get well soon.

Health is the most important thing in life.
Treasure your time when you still have it.
Family is the most important people.

"Death is certain, life is uncertain." .... unquote fellow retiree

That's the brutal truth of life.
Never know what holds for tomorrow.

Happy weekend
J

it is weekend
the next installment "brutal truth about daytrading" is here.
if missed those posts, you find them here:
time
part #1 https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...0#post13659240
part #2 https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...1#post13659361
expectations:
part#3 https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...1#post13667571


"the brutal truth of daytrading" as profitfarmer sees it...
part 4.
still the (unrealistic) EXPECTATIONS:

peer pressure (and trolls)

i would venture that most retail trading is typically a lonely activity. most who are interested in trading don't really have a close family member or friend who can help with the starting out, a lot less often a well established, consistently profitable one.
i know i didnt, and still dont have any. not a family member, and really not a friend or colleague even would be a trader. i am not even sure where my interest actually came from, but only remember i had a strong desire to learn to trade.
but where to start out? i really had no one i knew to ask any advice or pointers, or help?
started - as i think many does - with a few books ( stocks and investment), eventually finding only forex trading, and then the online trading forums.
all is great! suddenly many traders are there to read comments from, post on threads, ask questions, maybe exchange a mail...
but there is the catch: do i really know who they are, when i am just a beginner?
like many, i had have high hopes, and high expectations and they got even higher reading the "success stories" of some traders.
huge daily gains, plenty winning trades, only winning trades...
no question asked, bcos if members of a forum for a long time ( not only this forum), surely they must be expert in making money!
plus, if they can do it, well, i can do it too!
and maybe i could. for a time. then not.
then start to think what is wrong? would that be me? would that be the system that supposedly spitting out only winning trades with tight SLs with the desirable R:R ratio?
or is there something else?

it is real easy to take everything at face value, and not question claims at the beginning. ( it is as easyon forums to never accept anything, even with hard proofs!!)
when everyone is posting on a thread winning trades, anyone would feel hard pressed to admit that they actually making more losers, just follow the herd, and post selectively the trades what work, bcos that makes one feel belong.
"fake it till make it"
meanwhile often accept that the things said are reality, bcos coming from someone "respected".
of forums like FF.com, many would automatically think a medium or high impact status means someone can trade. few things could be further from the truth!!
many would feel being inadequate when some posters talk about aiming for 10% a day, or 500% a month, or double the acct with every trade, or taking 50% dd as part of the game, or whatever claims come across.
most of the time unsubstantiated, empty claims.
a real catch-22.
since no one is obligated to prove anything to anyone, but then, without proof, just how much to believe?
over my years on the forum, i have chat/talk quite a few traders, plenty of the high impact ones too...and found not one that were not even trading a demo acct at the time, maybe have a small live acct, but was accepted as a knowledgable trader, or serious trader, or full-time trader, or professional....you name it, chance i have talked to one.

the problem starts, when one accepts things, just bcos others, similarly unknowledgeable the situation do, or because afraid to question being new to trading and scared from the personal attacks that often follow such requests.
or when accepting some demo results as a likely real result, when accepting for real statements that highly cropped for any hint that it is remotely real, or worst accepting result without even a statement. bcos if others do and not get in line, you will be probably trolled, badly and relentlessly.

with such conditioning, many start to think whatever stated is must be true, and there rarely will have a normal conversation develop.
if trader A says 3% a day is easy, it have to be true!
if trader B says 100% a month is doable, never question if that is a one-time, or consistent, live or demo!
if trader C says that never use a SL, it must be good advice.
if trader D says always use a SL, it must be good advice.
etc, etc, etc.

especially for someone new, it may take even years to learn to navigate your own way between posts, to be able to filter out who actually gives good advice, and to find, or when to ignore others.
it may take even longer to find someone who is genuinely able and willing to show some actual trading results, especially not on a couple of 100s $ acct, or worse, not a demo.
it is not easy to deduct what expectations should be, but if something sounds really too good to be true ( like 100% every months), then perhaps it is.
even if a high impact member says it!
even if myfxbook says it!!
question is OK.
believing actual proofs is OK too.
but learning to look at things the right way, unpressured by others, ignorant to hopes or greeds or fantasies, filtering out that isnt what it is said to be, and learning actually what takes you to be the realistic expectations...takes time.
often too much time, and many just get bored, or give up to care.
here some myfxbook stat, same acct,,,dd vs dd!!


to end the post with an advice:
beginning, many of us felt that making 10% is the minimum acceptable, or making 3% a day is easy, and asking for any proof for backup is bad manner.
dare to be different!
and be prepared to back yourself up with results!!
that way there won't need to be scared of trolls and wont need to bow to peer pressure!
if anything seems or feels too good to be true question it!
seek to learn from proven sources!

happy weekend!
Z

PS.
the above is a long post.
the topics about my takes on daytrading (trading) truths arent really finished, but this mini-series has.
i thought it may be a good idea to post some again on the forum, but the fact that each progressive parts were receiving less and less visible readers.
which is ok, i am not really writing excitingly, not about very exciting topics.
my only excuse: after 4 years of being a full-time retail forex trader for a living, i can conclude that daytrading is boring! yes, i said it: daytrading isnt exciting!!
not driving a bus for a living is, nor cutting hair for a living is, nor mixing drinks for a living is, not answering phone calls for a living is, etc...
any topics that would relate to those job's truths would be likely as exciting as any related to daytrading.
but that doesn't make them untrue.

there is definitely more.
but for the time being, i feel it doesn't worth the effort, bcos few is reading it.
i do mentor, and i try to explain to students all the aspects before and along learning to approach the market with consistency.
yes, i do back up that claim with live results to them, not only screenshots. not that the screenshot looks that bad...


if someone is interested, i can be reached by PM.
will be free for a new student in mid-October next...( booked for September)


happy weekend!
Z

Hi Zoltan

Thanks for your great series and sharing your thoughts on day tradings brutal truths.

I have had the great pleasure of trading alongside you within the discord group almost every night for the past 16 months. Your single minded determination to trade your own strategy unchanged for years with such great results astounded me.
Many members have come and gone and were willing to preach their ideas about using shinny indicators with averaging in show pony techniques on demo accounts in an attempt to impress the group.

You didn’t buy into their rubbish.

Many have claimed fantastic daily results at the end of the night but would then go silent and missing for days while their live accounts would be in massive drawn down. You could hear a pin drop.

Still you remained unchanged and would just trade his successful strategy without fanfare.

I myself would post pretty future charts and breakdown volume analysis on current conditions to help the group find good entry points.
Zoltan would smile and just trade the market as he has for years without any boasting on crazy profit claims. Just real results without fanfare making pips without one losing profit trading day for months.

In many ways every single trader on this forum needs to trade with Zoltan. You need a trader alongside you telling you when your’e wrong, keeping you grounded and real and FOCUSSED. Most importantly telling you to stop bloody trading and instead go for a walk because the market isn’t worth your time at present.

Tomorrow during the start of London open, Zoltan will be there only if the market has something to offer him, he will make some dollars then sit on the sideline till another trading opportunity comes along.
He doesn’t waste his time on trading markets that don’t match his strategy - but he will achieve a green profit day without fail.

That is a trading skill no one on forex factory can every match - Zoltan's consistently.

Cheers Rick

Hi Zoltan, for some reason I never give attention to all that winning claims on FF. Even if the claim is true I question the motive. To me, there's some hidden bs. Who cares whether the other guy is a winner or loser or the best trader, won't change a thing for me. Anyone who is stuck with this best trader mentality has a long way to go with Forex trading.

The best teacher is the forex market itself. No one teach better than the market. Mentor can give pointers. But mentors lessons and golden rules are biased to his experience, personal financial situation and preferences. The student mostly end up no better than his mentor.

I have always done it my way for me. Period. No mentor. No books. The forex market is and will always be my teacher.

Hi Zoltan, talking about boring.

My personal fantasy preference, if there's a possible situation where I can teach another trader everything I know about trading this Forex market. All I get in return from this trader is to copy trade to my account. If only this is possible. That's how boring, dull and big time waster Forex trading is to me.

Hi Jason,

Clearly this thread or posts aren't intended for you.
Some ppl may need a mentor others don't.
Same as with any other things. But do I barge is a supermarket with a speech to stop selling Pepsi bcos I only drink tap water, and that is the best ( bcos me saying so)?
Maybe you do...
Could use other example, I am good with real life, relatable examples.
And consistency. Like Rick pointed out.

I heard you have a daughter, so the boring part of your definition has a solution; do work on it.

For me, boring means repetitive. With any repetitive tasks comes both getting competent and getting bored. Not necessarily a bad connotation but still a fact.
Like the 10000 kicks one time, or the one kick 10000 times.
It isn't particularly exciting to do the 7000th or the 12000th mawashi geri gedan...but as a yield I still can kick it now, unchanged, years later, better than many younger, stronger one.
Not a metaphor. But could be. Up to you. Explained the first paragraph.

I am not looking to edit my post, so strongly hope you stop editing your here...
Again: I will listen personal experience of yours, in a PM.
Here, on a journal that isn't dedicated to you or your personal experience or belief about what you think is good or bad,
multiple posts on that are as good as a troll post is.
So to borrow one line from you:

"Even if the claim is true I question the motive."

what is your motive with multiple, (edited) posts, that trying to discard mine as wrong?
why do you think your only personal experience would beat mine? Or what matters to you or not making a difference to a thread you could just ignore if so badly try to talk against?

if the purpose to bury the actual post under some unrelated, like the last weekend, then can celebrate, done again!
if trying to attack me on my own thread, for my own content of choice, you are really out of your depth.

and the questions above rethorical. just to be clear: no answer needed to them here!
may missed the title: my way to highway!

keep your personal agenda to my personal mail, and my personal thread to my personal thread is just the right thing to do. suggest try that in the future if you can?

Happy weekend!
Z

Hi Zoltan, I must have mistaken you may appreciate other members opinion for discussion on the topic. My fault in this misunderstanding. Btw my posts has no agenda.

Title of your thread : my way to highway. Noted.

I take it that its ok to continue our private discussion on pm.

Happy weekend. Cheers.

Hi all,

this is my short review of me walking along side Zoltan aka profitfarmer.

Preface starts here:
I knew of Zoltan, mainly from the (in)famous Georges thread. Looking back at the time I tried to make a head or tail of it, not all of it was wasted.
That was roughly 3 years ago.
I spent time reading even contributing a bit on some threads after that, but nothing major happened with my trading. No revelations, no light bulb going off, probably just the usual journey of the retail trader. Surviving, not going anywhere, threading water and so on.
And now, yes what a surprise I came across Zoltan once again. Bit corny right?
I started to read his journal, this journal, My way to highway with more and more interest.
Tried to extract some wisdom to help me with my trading realizing this might actually work for me if I knew even more what was going on behind the scenes.
And than to my surprise I read that he was taking up student(s)!

Review starts here:
So I shoot him a message, like any chance to be taught? And the rest is the history .
Now I will keep it brief , Zoltan's response to my questions before he started to work with me, were very fast and to the point. We had a chat prior to me and him agreeing on anything, no pressure from either side, enough time to decide, enough to thought it through.
So I took the plunge.
At the beginning I was reassured, that there is no real end to the lessons, well there is but he was willing to help, chat and guide any time after we finished up.
Final lesson was roughly 3 weeks ago and I can say all that holds the truth.
We gradually went through the mindset and expectations, the market pairs and the trading. They varied in length and Zoltan was very accommodating to my needs as when they happen.
Towards the second part there were home works, all related to understanding and to realization of the approach taught.
The last part was the trading and we did and actually still do alongside each other.
I have to say, Zoltan went beyond and above with his teachings delivering all and more. This was a real 101, mentoring, approach which was worth the money spent.

Conclusion:
Has Zoltan deliver all he promised? 100% YES.
Are we still in contact? 100% YES.
Do I trade his way? 100% YES.
Do I trade it live? 100% YES.
Would I recommend him? 100% YES.

PS:
Are there any prerequisites on your part?
Yes, 3.
To have Real expectations.
To have Patience.
To have Open mind.

Thank you Zoltan!

T.

hi Tomas
thank you for the kind words!
i am glad you have find my mentoring helping you!

happy weekend!
Z

has been a while...

can't say much changed.
for good or bad.
still trading, still focusing on consistency.
while the past few months arent that strong, and really nothing fancy by some 'standards', overall i am happy with the results, it keeps paying for the bills.


Axi funded acct is back on track now, the moment on track to get the next addition to equity to 350k, basically ticked the criteria already this week, plan just to slowly trade the remaining days on the acct, keeping it safe is the priority.

the discord group is still 'alive'. a rather small group. i may re-organize it coming Xmas trading holiday weeks, something not fully decided yet on.

mentoring:
from approx mid-November i am available to take 1 student; if someone is interested can PM me for details. this will be the last opportunity this year!!

happy trading!
Z

Hi Profitfarmer great trading interested in your mentorship

hi Stoprun,
will PM you.
happy weekend!
Z

Hello Profitfarmer,
Amazing results, I would love to join your discord. I trade full time too and it would be great to talk to other successful traders during the trading day.

hi Johnnyoh,

there are only a few hard-core members currently.
but there are actual trades called, and actual trading is done.
would send you a link in PM, but that option isn't available (bcos you have just joined?).
please get back to me once your message function work, so i can send link.

happy trading!
Z

Nice trading result. Keep it going