How long do you leave your trades open? | Forex Factory

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How long do you leave your trades open?

  • #1
  • First Post: Jan 31, 2011 1:58pm Jan 31, 2011 1:58pm
If we trade short term and/or scalping (1M, 15M), we are checking the charts all the time, sometimes even gets obsesive and risk to go out of the trade too early and take only a few pips of profit. But the advantage is that we use lower stop loss and if it goes against us

If we leave the trades for longer terms, (4H and more) we need a HUGE stop loss because the market can move hundreds of pips down and up in less than a week period, and if you are hit by a STOP LOSS of 100 or more pips you are losing a lot of money.

I see some people leave the trades open for days and don't worry, then go and make other activities and come back. But what's their STOP LOSS, what's their margin? I really wonder.

Yes, someone will say, trade the way you feel confortable with... But that's not exactly the problem here.. I'm trying to understand how do you manage STOP LOSS and margin in huge trades... Do you have huge account of 100K + more?

If most people recommend to trade on 4H + for a new trader, how is he supposed to trade if the market moves hundreds of pips in 4H charts, and he usually has a micro account? (even in 1 pip per cent makes no sense)

Yes, someone else will say: "well, the problem with new traders is under capitalization". But anyway. That's a big mistery.
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #2
  • Jan 31, 2011 2:02pm Jan 31, 2011 2:02pm
Quoting MapleLeaf
If we trade short term and/or scalping (1M, 15M), we are checking the charts all the time, sometimes even gets obsesive and risk to go out of the trade too early and take only a few pips of profit. But the advantage is that we use lower stop loss and if it goes against us

If we leave the trades for longer terms, (4H and more) we need a HUGE stop loss because the market can move hundreds of pips down and up in less than a week period, and if you are hit by a STOP LOSS of 100 or more pips you are losing a lot of money.

I see some people leave...

TF is irrelevant to risk exposure, a decent trader would never risk more then 1%, so the larger SL on the larger TF would just reduce his lotsize to stay within his risk appetite.

Lotsize should always be determined by risk.

The better a trader becomes the smaller the SL will be on the higher TF's, unforeseen fundies notwhithstanding, as the entries will become better with experience.

A good H4/daily trade on EURUSD that is well researched and planned only needs a SL of 40-60 pips.
  • #3
  • Jan 31, 2011 2:11pm Jan 31, 2011 2:11pm
a 100 pip stop with 1 micro lot is about $10 risk.
a 200 pip stop with 1 micro lot is about $20 risk.

so to risk 1% for 100 pip stop you will need a $1000 account
to risk 1% on a 200 pip stop you will need $2000.

if your account is only 2 or 3 hudred dollars, you will either have to risk more% or perhaps get an account with Oanda they will let you trade any size. so you can risk the exact percentage on whatever stop.

your other alternative is to get a demo account untill you save enough money.
  • #4
  • Jan 31, 2011 2:15pm Jan 31, 2011 2:15pm
Quoting highlander2
a 100 pip stop with 1 micro lot is about $10 risk.
a 200 pip stop with 1 micro lot is about $20 risk.

so to risk 1% for 100 pip stop you will need a $1000 account
to risk 1% on a 200 pip stop you will need $2000.

if your account is only 2 or 3 hudred dollars, you will either have to risk more% or perhaps get an account with Oanda they will let you trade any size. so you can risk the exact percentage on whatever stop.

your other alternative is to get a demo account untill you save enough money.

And to add to this, if you don't have the money, you need to work on your strategy to be able to keep your stops tighter, risking more then 1% per trade sets you on the road to failure.

So you have three options:

Deposit more money,
reduce your lotsizes,
get better in trading.

This whole micro account mallarkey is just a broker scam to get you to lose your money, you guys need to risk so much of your account that you can statistically never make it in this business unless you are one of the lucky few.
  • #5
  • Jan 31, 2011 2:32pm Jan 31, 2011 2:32pm
Quoting cloggie
And to add to this, if you don't have the money, you need to work on your strategy to be able to keep your stops tighter, risking more then 1% per trade sets you on the road to failure.

So you have three options:

Deposit more money,
reduce your lotsizes,
get better in trading.

This whole micro account mallarkey is just a broker scam to get you to lose your money, you guys need to risk so much of your account that you can statistically never make it in this business unless you are one of the lucky few.
Yeah micro account providers are desperate for you to only deposite 200$ or whatever, as they know its unlikely the trader will be able to stick to sound MM. a couple of thousand dollars in a micro account and you will beable to position yourself ok and survive any bad streaks. the same if you had a standard account with $5000 its too inflexable.
  • #6
  • Jan 31, 2011 2:35pm Jan 31, 2011 2:35pm
Quoting highlander2
Yeah micro account providers are desperate for you to only deposite 200$ or whatever, as they know its unlikely the trader will be able to stick to sound MM. a couple of thousand dollars in a micro account and you will beable to position yourself ok and survive any bad streaks. the same if you had a standard account with $5000 its too inflexable.
Give it 10,000 dollars and 10,000 hours and you will make it in this business, anything less then either and the odds are stacked against you.

All the glossy ads from the br0kers promising the noobies that with 200 dollars and a few hours anyone can be a millionaire is grossly misleading. A very select few do get lucky and get to grips with this business overnight, for the vast majority of the new entrants the road to success is long and arduous.

Ah well, of my soapbox again.
  • #7
  • Jan 31, 2011 2:53pm Jan 31, 2011 2:53pm
Quoting cloggie
Give it 10,000 dollars and 10,000 hours and you will make it in this business, anything less then either and the odds are stacked against you.

All the glossy ads from the br0kers promising the noobies that with 200 dollars and a few hours anyone can be a millionaire is grossly misleading. A very select few do get lucky and get to grips with this business overnight, for the vast majority of the new entrants the road to success is long and arduous.

Ah well, of my soapbox again.
What the ads with the hot girl in bed with a laptop, click-click theres another $500 profit???
  • #8
  • Jan 31, 2011 3:50pm Jan 31, 2011 3:50pm
Quoting cloggie
Give it 10,000 dollars and 10,000 hours and you will make it in this business, anything less then either and the odds are stacked against you.

Ah well, of my soapbox again.
Ok, but if a new trader deposits 10,000 dollars, you are giving the br0kers even MORE MONEY!!!???

Right??

If you say: "Go all deposit 10,000 dollars, or there is no chance you will make it in this business".... in FACT you are helping the br0kers get more money from us...

There is no quarantee someone deposit 10K and will make it better than someone with 500 bucks in a micro account.

That's where I see the missing link.
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #9
  • Jan 31, 2011 4:01pm Jan 31, 2011 4:01pm
you can make money with 500$ i think cloggie just means you wont get rich (which is obvious) its difficult to position size with a small account and a large stop as you will have to use a larger percentage.

i wouldnt go and try fx for real the first time with 10k, its gauranteed that you will lose money.

but at the end of the day a few hundred dollars lost is not the end of the world. i have used bad MM in the past on a very small account, i knew i was. but if i lost the lot i couldnt care less. but if you use bad MM on a 100K then you have a disaster on your hands.

i would try and add so much to your account each month to build it up.
  • #10
  • Feb 3, 2011 8:44am Feb 3, 2011 8:44am
Guys, just go ECN
May the Force be with You
  • #11
  • Feb 6, 2011 7:11am Feb 6, 2011 7:11am
Yes...agreed, if you want to stay away from the "bucket shop" brokers, you need to go ECN or STP...don't be fooled by opening an account with little capital and try and achieve your million dollar forex dream.

My suggestion if you can't afford to open a real account with a real broker is to continue to demo, save until you have the proper capital, and then start trading.
  • #12
  • Mar 5, 2011 12:14pm Mar 5, 2011 12:14pm
Quoting MapleLeaf
If we trade short term and/or scalping (1M, 15M), we are checking the charts all the time, sometimes even gets obsesive and risk to go out of the trade too early and take only a few pips of profit. But the advantage is that we use lower stop loss and if it goes against us

If we leave the trades for longer terms, (4H and more) we need a HUGE stop loss because the market can move hundreds of pips down and up in less than a week period, and if you are hit by a STOP LOSS of 100 or more pips you are losing a lot of money.

I see some people leave...
I think that easiest way how to trade for newbie is scalping on support and resistances, which you will find in 15 minutes charts with 2:1 risk ratio .. when you will make 50 percent of your trades profit you make lot of money.

For scalping you dont need lot of money to open your account and when you risk 10 percent of equity per trade you can make good income for beginning. I think that the most important think is take a week in front of your monitor and look to the charts .. and you will see
  • #13
  • Mar 6, 2011 8:45am Mar 6, 2011 8:45am
Quoting alex_000
Guys, just go ECN
with this...

I just realised,
which is best?

1. ECN
2. Fixed spread
3. variable spread

Sorry I had to post a reply here for this topic since I'm a junior member
I can't start a new thread yet

also tell me why it's best? Thx people!
  • #14
  • Mar 7, 2011 12:41am Mar 7, 2011 12:41am
most likely ecn dont bet against you
  • #15
  • Mar 7, 2011 1:49am Mar 7, 2011 1:49am
Im new and still more in RnD phase, but the trap does seem to be, the simplest and safest entry point is to play the Daily/4hour charts and ride what seems to be an obvious trend, looking for a pull back to support as an entry point and pressure on resistance as an exit point.

The problem being that to do this with a 2:1 or better R&R means having a 50-100 point stop loss v a 200-250 limit and leaving the order in the market a fixed limit to engage the order. Or spending 3 days looking at your screen (or relying on alerts...eg sms).

While of course being aware of incoming news that could blow all your plans away

Now if you cant nano or micro trade and you are paying a dollar a pip then you are looking at risking 5-10% of a starter account at $1-2000.

Thus newbies (like me) find themsleves in the 1-15 minute charts and well....you may as well go to the pub and bet on coin tosses. As the more complex TA to take advantage at these levels is by definition beyond noobies....

The answer....ill get back to you in 3 months or $5,000
  • #16
  • Mar 7, 2011 11:52am Mar 7, 2011 11:52am
this game is all about risk, i have been doing fine with my own plan, i do 2 dollars a pip and my stop loss is 300 pips / 3 cents, in the 6 months i have been doing this plan, i am 150% of my initial stake up, yes i keep them open over the weekend only once has it gone over 300 pips before it has gone back.
i dont have any chart plans, just keep an eye out on the economic front, i have 2 accounts so i can play one off against the other, i have withdrawn my initial stake so i am trading with my profit, yes i have a plan but would take too long to explain on here.

Grant01
  • #17
  • Jul 28, 2021 8:01am Jul 28, 2021 8:01am
It all depends on your targets, your expectations and type of trade you plan to hold on. If you are a day trader, without referring much to leverage, margin and lot size issues, a day trader should keep a time scale of 2 to 3 hours in order to realize substantial profits. If your target is 50 pips, then a realized profit should be at least 30 pips and above in 2 to 3 hours. If you do not realize substantial profits within that time scale of 2-3 hours then scratch out, take whatever has been given to you and, get on with your trading day. There's no need for pressure or to feel aggravated as tomorrow is another opportunity to look for your set. Patience is one of the best psychological success factors you can invest on.

And in regards to a trade resulting to a loss. It's either you make peace with your loss as it should be the first step before entering the trade, or cut your loses short if it goes against you at least 60% of your initial risk of 1-2% and wait for your next better entry.

To be honest when I first started in forex, I never really knew what they meant that losses are part of the game, when in fact it was meant that, learning how to lose is the functionality of risk. Trading or Investing is about the letter "R", Risking For Rewards. I hope what I've shared should make you feel at peace with taking managed losses and allow you to leave your profits to run for your targets or reward ratio.

Last closing statement: If you are trading to avoid risk, then clearly making money is not the functionality of trading.
  • #18
  • Last Post: Aug 4, 2021 12:39pm Aug 4, 2021 12:39pm
I don't really like ultra short-term trading.
I mean that there is nothing bad in doing trades which can last for several days for me. As for me, I don't see fit starting trading having extremely small amount of money like $100 - $1000. You are too limited for opportunities and cannot really enjoy trading itself and the profits that you get from there. It is extremely stressful to start with $100 and try to boost your account to $1000 or more. THere is extremely large risk and the trading needs your full attention which is exhausting and cannot motivate anyone at all. So, I personally think that you'd better to train on demo if you don't have enough money to start trading using more or less decent timeframes like 1H-8H in order to make your trading more consistent and lgical and less depended on luck and accidential fluctuations.
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