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The brutal truth of day trading

  • #2,401
  • Edited 12:32pm Jul 25, 2021 12:22pm | Edited 12:32pm
Quoting Techanalyst
Charts are there to analyze supply/demand. That's it. You are not a surgeon, you are not doing surgery, it is a chart to confirm where to enter at a best price possible off of supply/demand. It comes down to fundamentals, macro and micro analysis, economics.
Sure! Analyzing tick data volume on forex to determine supply/demand is what you need!
I think to succeed you must create a list of trading fairy tales and avoid using them.

Trade higher TFs
Do not hedge
Always use Stop Losses
Use RR >1/2
No automation, only manual trading
Patience
Psychology
Feelings
Correct mindset
Luck and divine providence
Fundamentals
News
Prediction
Follow signals, successful trader, holy grail strategy
No experience needed, trading is not full time job
Trading is easy
Observer effect
  • #2,402
  • Jul 25, 2021 12:33pm Jul 25, 2021 12:33pm
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} Watch youtube videos? Please, don't say that again. It is not about sitting and drawing lines. Charts are there to analyze supply/demand. That's it. You are not a surgeon, you are not doing surgery, it is a chart to confirm where to enter at a best price possible off of supply/demand. It comes down to fundamentals, macro and micro analysis, economics. The money is made by sitting not trading is you literally buy/sell and you hold and add more positions. That's how professional traders in the banks and institutions are trading. Market makers...
Just for ppl reading this.

One can make a living just by trading 10-20 pips per week on the m5 or m1 chart.

The problem is that not everyone has the spatial and visual skills that charting requires. That is all, but you may find ways to get money from charts as long as you spend a few years learning and practicing. A few years, not a couple months.

Impatience and lack of organizational skills, as well as lack of focus will eventually make you fail most probably.

This is a hard industry. Do not expect to become a trader as most probably you won't be able to. No matter how hard you try or are taught.

Charting is a way, there are other ways. It all depend on you.


Stay safe.
  • #2,403
  • Jul 25, 2021 12:48pm Jul 25, 2021 12:48pm
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} Sure! Analyzing tick data volume on forex to determine supply/demand is what you need! I think to succeed you must create a list of trading fairy tales and avoid using them. Trade higher TFs Do not hedge Always use Stop Losses Use RR >1/2 No automation, only manual trading Patience Psychology Feelings Correct mindset Luck and divine providence Fundamentals News Prediction Follow signals, successful trader, holy grail strategy No experience needed, trading is not full time job Trading is easy
FX is a decentralized market, meaning that counterparties trade between themselves, not on an exchange such as the NYSE. As such, to get a reliable volume indicator you'd have to get every major ECN and brokerage firm of the world over to publish their volume in a standardized format. Volume is used most often in stock trading, where it shows the number of shares that are being traded. Each market or exchange will track its own volume and distribute the data to traders.

There is no volume reported for currency trading because there is no central clearing of fx trades.
  • #2,404
  • Jul 25, 2021 1:00pm Jul 25, 2021 1:00pm
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} FX is a decentralized market, meaning that counterparties trade between themselves, not on an exchange such as the NYSE. As such, to get a reliable volume indicator you'd have to get every major ECN and brokerage firm of the world over to publish their volume in a standardized format. Volume is used most often in stock trading, where it shows the number of shares that are being traded. Each market or exchange will track its own volume and distribute the data to traders. There is no volume reported for currency trading because there is no...
I think go back to the older posts of this thread. We have touched the volume part. Otherwise we might find ourselves moving around in circle.
  • #2,405
  • Jul 25, 2021 1:10pm Jul 25, 2021 1:10pm
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} FX is a decentralized market, meaning that counterparties trade between themselves, not on an exchange such as the NYSE. As such, to get a reliable volume indicator you'd have to get every major ECN and brokerage firm of the world over to publish their volume in a standardized format. Volume is used most often in stock trading, where it shows the number of shares that are being traded. Each market or exchange will track its own volume and distribute the data to traders. There is no volume reported for currency trading because there is no...
Here in oficial nasdaq site you can get precise data of stocks volumes - for example, MSFT:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: msft_nasdaq.png Size: 95 KB


Are there volumes data correct?

When to enter BUY or SELL when looking at volumes chart? What to look for?
  • #2,406
  • Jul 25, 2021 1:10pm Jul 25, 2021 1:10pm
Quoting Pumi
{quote} I think go back to the older posts of this thread. We have touched the volume part. Otherwise we might find ourselves moving around in circle.
FX is a decentralized market, meaning that counterparties trade between themselves, not on an exchange such as the NYSE. As such, to get a reliable volume indicator you'd have to get every major ECN and brokerage firm of the world over to publish their volume in a standardized format. Volume is used most often in stock trading, where it shows the number of shares that are being traded. Each market or exchange will track its own volume and distribute the data to traders.

There is no volume reported for currency trading because there is no central clearing of fx trades.
  • #2,407
  • Jul 25, 2021 1:11pm Jul 25, 2021 1:11pm
Quoting joyny
{quote} Here in oficial nasdaq site you can get precise data of stocks volumes - for example, MSFT: {image} Are there volumes data correct? When to enter BUY or SELL when looking at volumes chart? What to look for?
That is stock market. We are talking abour forex market.
  • #2,408
  • Jul 25, 2021 1:18pm Jul 25, 2021 1:18pm
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} That is stock market. We are talking abour forex market.
fx dont have correct volumes. Why not use stocks where they should be correct (centralized) ?
  • #2,409
  • Jul 25, 2021 1:21pm Jul 25, 2021 1:21pm
Quoting joyny
{quote} fx dont have correct volumes. Why not use stocks where they should be correct (centralized) ?
We are talking about forex. Trading/investing in forex market.
  • #2,410
  • Jul 25, 2021 1:24pm Jul 25, 2021 1:24pm
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} We are talking about forex. Trading/investing in forex market.
gold, oil, fx or stocks. rules should be the same.. or not the same?
  • #2,411
  • Jul 25, 2021 1:30pm Jul 25, 2021 1:30pm
Quoting joyny
{quote} gold, oil, fx or stocks. rules should be the same.. or not the same?
That is a big topic to discuss. We are talking about volume in forex trading. Which is not reliable and can't be used in forex trading. It will give you negative results. With forex, you look at supply/demand on charts, and use fundamentals analysis and make sure that matches with supply/demand on the chart. Once that confirms, either buy/sell you add positions and keep adding, until something happens in fundamentals the numbers are no longer good and that is where you take the profit or you take the profit when it reaches the supply zone if you buy and same goes if you sell you take the profit when it reaches demand zone. That is of course if you want to make full time income from trading. You should approach it as professionals do. If you like to simply gamble, than just go on lower time frames, and trade off magic patterns and so on. It is your choice.
  • #2,412
  • Jul 25, 2021 1:36pm Jul 25, 2021 1:36pm
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} We are talking about forex. Trading/investing in forex market.
A lot of traders will not get the FX component of ITPM. It's too much work. Charting is last, but most want to put charting first. It takes a lot of time to build out the WISH framework.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #2,413
  • Jul 25, 2021 1:54pm Jul 25, 2021 1:54pm
Quoting joyny
{quote} fx dont have correct volumes. Why not use stocks where they should be correct (centralized) ?
Because financial markets are multidimensional. You cannot trade because you saw a spike on volume, a candlestick configuration or a chart pattern.

You need a fundamental story behind it that may or may not be directly extracted from your charts. Or you need a mathematical model that won't usually be obvious upfront.

But simple stats, patterns or rules won't work as far as I know.
  • #2,414
  • Jul 25, 2021 2:00pm Jul 25, 2021 2:00pm
Quoting scherzi
Or you need a mathematical model that won't usually be obvious upfront.
Know what you trade
  • #2,415
  • Jul 25, 2021 2:04pm Jul 25, 2021 2:04pm
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} A lot of traders will not get the FX component of ITPM. It's too much work. Charting is last, but most want to put charting first. It takes a lot of time to build out the WISH framework.
Now that you mention ITPM. Have you completed the tuition?

Is it a good course?

I am not really interested in it, but I would like an opinion from someone knowledgeable at it. I am chartist and not interested in that style anyways.
  • #2,416
  • Jul 25, 2021 2:06pm Jul 25, 2021 2:06pm
Quoting scherzi
{quote} Now that you mention ITPM. Have you completed the tuition? Is it a good course I am not really interested in it, but I would like an opinion from someone knowledgeable at it.
You can learn fundamentals on your own. Search online, use websites like tradingeconomics.com to follow micro and macro analysis. You don't have to pay anything to anyone. ITPM does have youtube channel and just from that you can learn a lot. There are others I can provide if you are interested, and it is free.
  • #2,417
  • Jul 25, 2021 2:14pm Jul 25, 2021 2:14pm
Quoting scherzi
{quote} Now that you mention ITPM. Have you completed the tuition? Is it a good course? I am not really interested in it, but I would like an opinion from someone knowledgeable at it. I am chartist and not interested in that style anyways.
1. Yes
2. Yes

ITPM will give you the catalysts that will move your market. They trade on a one to three month TF. They give a top down approach to finding opportunities in a manner that assumes that you have never traded in your life. After you have taken the education, you will be given a rebate on your trading fees at one of the brokers they select. They do not have conflict of interest with these brokers and can prove that. If you are good at what you do, they will allocate funds for trading if you wish. Accounts with less than 15K will find the necessary diversification difficult.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #2,418
  • Edited 3:15pm Jul 25, 2021 2:55pm | Edited 3:15pm
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} FX is a decentralized market, meaning that counterparties trade between themselves, not on an exchange such as the NYSE. As such, to get a reliable volume indicator you'd have to get every major ECN and brokerage firm of the world over to publish their volume in a standardized format. Volume is used most often in stock trading, where it shows the number of shares that are being traded. Each market or exchange will track its own volume and distribute the data to traders. There is no volume reported for currency trading because there is no...
Market is the place there BUYERs and SELLERs meet each other. Match.
Forex is fake. Because it is not a market.

That's why your "supply and demand" is pure bullshit. Purest. Shining. Best probe shit. Totally unusable, nonsense. It was made for only one purpose - to liquidate dreamers, idiots and "i_wanna_get_rich_fast" newbies and get their money.

To make a decision you must have data to analyze. Forex not providing such a data. There is nothing to discuss. You can draw as many rectangles on your chart as you wish. Read as many news as you like. And you can win. For sure. But this is not a skill. It is luck. Magic. If you are so lucky why not just gamble?

Let's be honest. How much have you invested in trading? Zero? Few hours a day? Installed some standard indicators? May be bought one custom? And you want to compete with funds? With HFT firms? Who invest millions in brains, science and algos? Are you serious? All you have to put on the table is "mindset" and "feelings"? Oookay then.
Observer effect
  • #2,419
  • Jul 25, 2021 3:36pm Jul 25, 2021 3:36pm
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} You can learn fundamentals on your own. Search online, use websites like tradingeconomics.com to follow micro and macro analysis. You don't have to pay anything to anyone. ITPM does have youtube channel and just from that you can learn a lot. There are others I can provide if you are interested, and it is free.
Trading economics is one of the better websites out there. Some people just don't know what they don't know in that regard. Volume in FX is unless you try to correlate it with a futures contract. But information is all over the chart if the trader knows what they are looking at. No indicators or trendlines need be used unless the trader wants some kind of confirmation.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #2,420
  • Jul 25, 2021 4:09pm Jul 25, 2021 4:09pm
Whole discussion here is about superiority of Christmas over Easter ...
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