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The brutal truth of day trading

  • #2,361
  • Edited 1:53pm Jul 23, 2021 1:11pm | Edited 1:53pm
Quoting Rmg
{quote} When the real money involves you will find the elephant in the room. The best place to find out yourself who you really are. Hope you will find it better. Spending too long on sim do more harm than anything else. Good luck.
I have practiced to find the elephant on the charts i hope i will find it there on live too

Thanks for your advice to go live soon

Three intra day entries on M1 chart, pure luck
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"Exchange of hands"
  • #2,362
  • Jul 23, 2021 2:05pm Jul 23, 2021 2:05pm
Quoting bilal1947
{quote} I have practiced to find the elephant on the charts i hope i will find it there on live too Thanks for your advice to go live soon Three intra day entries on M1 chart, pure luck {image}

the things u do are not random once you understand the way market works.
u,i, and a handfull of others know that prety well, no need to prove anything, your thread alone is a proof on its own. you know what ur doing if people do not want to give it a try its their loss.

a handfull of people will be thankfull to met you or got accustomed to your style (or any style of anyone that works) the rest will regret not listening to you when you were here, cause at some point you will get bored of forums as i did and i only reply to my thread and nowhere else these days. i only came here to support you.

my advise to you, keep it to yourself, it will help your trading as well. instead of conforting disbilievers, focus on you.

all the best

ps. no pun and disrespect intented to anyone, all i am saying is it can be done, once you believe it, you will find the way. (most recent example? search the nba for giannis story, giannis antentokoumpo). and a youtube channel valuetaiment. get motivated and everything is possible
offering my system to copy trade. check my link
  • #2,363
  • Edited 3:02pm Jul 23, 2021 2:17pm | Edited 3:02pm
Quoting nikosk0
{quote} the things u do are not random once you understand the way market works. u,i, and a handfull of others know that prety well, i only came here to support you. my advise to you, keep it to yourself, it will help your trading as well.
Thank you Mate for your kind support , advice well taken. I am sure i have touched a couple to learn it and focus only on learning on Demo demo demo then go live and get funded accounts that is my purpose to show others how it is possible and here to begin, your thread and mine all material available for keen learners.

Thanks again
Kind regards
bilal
"Exchange of hands"
  • #2,364
  • Edited 3:28pm Jul 23, 2021 3:10pm | Edited 3:28pm
Quoting Ihlas
Sunday drawn movement {image} Result{image} *** not to brag IMHO it can be done Next week:{image} Just an experiment for reference
Next week: Let's see
GBPUSD
No astrology or other magic things
***edited
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  • #2,365
  • Jul 23, 2021 3:21pm Jul 23, 2021 3:21pm
Quoting Ihlas
{quote} Next week: Let's see GBPUSD No astrology or other magic things {image}
just an overview and not trade suggestion. i rarelly hold trades more than a few minutes or hours.

may go slow may go impulsive, i think impulsive but havent figured that part yet in my trading journey.
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offering my system to copy trade. check my link
  • #2,366
  • Jul 23, 2021 3:24pm Jul 23, 2021 3:24pm
Quoting BlackNapkins
{quote} ...if someone is doing so well on demo , learning and building skill it is reason to to appreciate this... He made a tremendous progress and is matured to risk money...
You are right.
Learn from your mistakes and march on.
  • #2,367
  • Edited 6:22pm Jul 23, 2021 6:06pm | Edited 6:22pm
Quoting bilal1947
{quote} I am sure i have touched a couple to learn it and focus only on learning on Demo demo demo then go live and get funded accounts that is my purpose to show others how it is possible.

Hi Bilal,

Well said, and congratulations on your recent holiday venture in (high frequency lol) trading, well done imo.


Your ability to ‘hold’ trades (well past a point where I would have closed in profit) is very impressive in my eyes to say the least while you did mention that you ‘partially’ close trades along the way in profit so I do understand that part also.


I would say only you yourself will know best when to commence live trading.


And while another poster, PeterC, does get some stick from the mob on here (maybe more so for his verbal ‘assertiveness’, than his offers of personal experience) he HAS made mention a few times I noted that a trader can only bring with them to trading their real life ‘personality traits’. So in that light, you Bilal, will most likely be okay in this demanding business.


You are an accountant in real life, I saw. So that ‘fiscal understanding’ alone should do you well as it shows you had the discipline to both study & achieve.

Many of the accountants that I know are quite fiscally conservative, of course (NOT those rogue accountants lol).
When live trading begins a conservative trader may then be torn between the opportunity to maximise profit vs just ‘taking’ profit now.

You might recognise those times live trading when a profit situation, or DD situation, develops. Some call it fear vs greed, but it could also be viewed as conservative & responsible vs maximising an opportunity that has been presented. Each has to work that special part of trading out themselves, in their own journey.

All the best to you & yours Bilal, post holidays.

(And pls lol, do try not to fall into the trap in your real life job of dwelling and fantasising about trading. And losing sight of life’s reality vs life’s possibilities.
Your trading time will come soon).
  • #2,368
  • Jul 23, 2021 8:51pm Jul 23, 2021 8:51pm
To go from stop to go, you need to observe your surroundings. Trading IS this in every way.

Leverage of "X" too much is a throat slitter. Leverage is a multiplier and so greed and fear are of no value to someone who is not exceeding a counterpoint of its use.

Eg.

Bilal says he's using 1:500. BUT also states that it's not about money but about pips. So .... which is it ........ from a psychological perspective? When learning this is what comes (and goes) first.

Each instrument carries its own unique "valuation process" for what a"pip' (whole pip - 4 decimal point) is worth any given 'moment'. NOT just the black n white "equation" for calculation but the entire situation AND its equation of calculation.

1:500 is realistically speaking, that is, in real life trading scenarios, only useful in situations of medium to high momentum opportunities. Why? This is when the trader tends to have more 'control' or opportunity to manage the situation. Trading off a strung out reversal or turning point (eg - those reversals that are spikey) with high leverage is "unwise". This is not opinion, it is more down to experience with real situations where you may need to split trade orders, segregate determined exits and need to manage risk 'on the fly'.

The real life difference between the measurable and observable movement you see happening on your price chart vs what is happening within your account is where many starting out do not understand and fail to transition. Simple solution - Have one price chart FOR the instrument and one chart for your account. Equal size and dimensions for equal viewing. Along my journey I have seen many mt4 and mt5 indicators that are available for this purpose and I seem to remember they are sub-window indicators. So when you see the 'market' move eg. 10p, you can also witness what that movement is doing in your account. This is nothing more than an exercise in observing the truth of what money and numbers are doing in real life and real time. As far as setting up an account to do this - use a live standard account that begins lot size at 1K. Why? Nano accounts and fixed spread scenarios are "controlled" as they are artificially arranged. You need a normal, regular "boring" account station to run this exercise properly. A person's psyche must be "convinced" that it now recognizes AND understands the difference between account vs market movement and it must be done as accurately and truthfully as possible. What you're aiming for here is to make a 'lasting impression + actioned improvement to your learning curve' within your own psychological makeup. It will not happen just by wishful thinking or seeing it once and then forgetting what you saw. It MUST make an impact that lasts. Then you have learned something that is both reflective and actionable in the future.

For many people, they need to lose a lot of money before they learn this lesson but truthfully, it isn't necessary if you apply a truthful recognition of you and what you are doing and dealing with just as Pete and others have said. The truth is more potent than "facts and information".

For me, when I was just starting out, it was all so intense and there's SOOO much involved UNTIL I created a blueprint of what I came across along the way. Having the categories laid out and using a flow chart for eg., to view the activity as it goes in its natural state (Minus stories and conspiracy ideas etc - these are VERY disruptive for learning).

@ gepards - THIS is one way to get to the front of the line. Stop listening to peers and map out the whole thing properly and thoroughly, cutting NO corners and leave no room for being lazy or complacent.

This is also how one can arrive at creating Price ratings. I don't care if people think I'm making this up - either you will lose money because you ignored it or you'll at least breakeven if not benefit from generating your own ratings process.

People need to realize when day trading that markets are manipulated, however, this is not a dirty word. It just is. Read what I have written previously about ratings and you will see that a market cannot function without them. In fact, even when you go to the shops to buy milk and you are standing there in the aisle looking at the products and you see all those prices, you are seeing ratings. Placement on the shelf + spectacle of advertising + viewable value of discount or special price offered + attractive appeal of savings for good value.

See now? Ratings. FX is just an extension of earlier incarnations eg. primary industry markets - eg. pork belly and corn. Different in some ways but still possesses the same undertones. People need to stop being drawn in by all the "lingo and jargon" people like to use these days to "describe and explain" all these things re: trading. Try a different way and become more objective without being dismissive of what is necessary.

So once you understand value and ratings there is no need for high leverage, practice or real. EXCEPT in specific situations when you have the highest degree of advantage.

And once you truly respect this about trading, fear and greed are a thing of the past. Leveraging up doesn't make you achieve your goals in trading nor be able to enjoy your trading, it hinders or destroys it. And it doesn't make one a great trader in your own eyes, it's just the tip of the stem of the cherry on top.

I hope that helps.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #2,369
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:11pm Jul 23, 2021 9:11pm
For most of you 'brought up' on mt4 and 5 and the like, I will show you what I mean in a format you are familiar with here .....


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPUSD PIC 1.png Size: 35 KB



Here and now, you can make whatever assessment (or judgment) you like about what is shown in this picture. IT IS FOR YOU. Not me. SO have at it.

But remember, the more you judge the less you observe and learn and THINK.

........ Value and Ratings.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #2,370
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:22pm Jul 23, 2021 9:22pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
For most of you 'brought up' on mt4 and 5 and the like, I will show you what I mean in a format you are familiar with here ..... {image} Here and now, you can make whatever assessment (or judgment) you like about what is shown in this picture. IT IS FOR YOU. Not me. SO have at it. But remember, the more you judge the less you observe and learn and THINK. ........ Value and Ratings. Peter
what is dis colorful picture? ima mt4 child and still don't get it..
  • #2,371
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:30pm Jul 23, 2021 9:30pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi Bilal, Well said, and congratulations on your recent holiday venture in (high frequency lol) trading, well done imo. Your ability to ‘hold’ trades (well past a point where I would have closed in profit) is very impressive in my eyes to say the least while you did mention that you ‘partially’ close trades along the way in profit so I do understand that part also. I would say only you yourself will know best when to commence live trading. And while another poster, PeterC, does get some stick from the mob on here (maybe more so for his verbal...
Hi Pete, you are correct to call accountants as fiscally prudent. This ingrained training makes "accountant" traders to think more about the cost of losing rather than the profit of winning. More about ways to lose than ways to win, it's a weird inverted view about trading. Being naturally more risk averse, the mindset is tuned on avoiding risk by risking few to gain more. That's the "accountant's" trading strategy in a nutshell.
Know what you trade
  • #2,372
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:34pm Jul 23, 2021 9:34pm
Quoting Miksiu
{quote} what is dis colorful picture? ima mt4 child and still don't get it..


I see from your profile you are active so I think you can do better.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #2,373
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:41pm Jul 23, 2021 9:41pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} I see from your profile you are active so I think you can do better. Peter
i can't ..
i just don't understand your charts and what you're saying to traders. My conclusion is that you will be selling some shit to other FF members shortly.
  • #2,374
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:44pm Jul 23, 2021 9:44pm
Quoting Miksiu
{quote} i can't .. i just don't understand your charts and what you're saying to traders. My conclusion is that you will be selling some shit to other FF members shortly.



If you say so.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #2,375
  • Jul 23, 2021 10:00pm Jul 23, 2021 10:00pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} If you say so. Peter
LOL. another charlatan of 'charts' without audit or anything . Do you trade real FX or just CFD markets like 'most of us'?
  • #2,376
  • Jul 23, 2021 10:11pm Jul 23, 2021 10:11pm
If you say so.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #2,377
  • Jul 24, 2021 2:21am Jul 24, 2021 2:21am
Quoting PeterCaleb
For me, when I was just starting out, it was all so intense and there's SOOO much involved UNTIL I created a blueprint of what I came across along the way. Having the categories laid out and using a flow chart for eg., to view the activity as it goes in its natural state (Minus stories and conspiracy ideas etc - these are VERY disruptive for learning).
Good approach to analyze the environment where you are going to be and deal with. Tnx - this is realy good advice.

Quoting PeterCaleb
@ gepards - THIS is one way to get to the front of the line. Stop listening to peers and map out the whole thing properly and thoroughly, cutting NO corners and leave no room for being lazy or complacent.
tnx Peter. this relate to 10000 hour rule. Secret is that it is not just 10000 h trading but every next bunch of hours must be enhanced with more learning and improvements in approach. Then that 10000 h rule will result in success.

Many people complain "I worked allready 50000 hours in my job and still I earn small wage"... and therefore complain "10000h rule dont work"... here is secret - 10000 h with consistent retrospective of your previous performance, acknowledge what you can improve, what was mistake, make checklist of improvements and next chunk of hours do your best to follow that checklist.

Think those chunks of hours can be splitet in 1 week portions. 5 days work, 1 day analyze what and how was done and prepare for next 5 days. If you trade 2 hours per day... it means after 10 hours trading do then for example 10 hours (2 days) retrospective/learning. This is 1 week for trader who whave another job to gain start capital and earn for living. Dont expect to earn for living with just trading. First learn to trade.

Or somehow different can be arranged that time trading/learning. According to anybody needs. But when you do that process trade/learn then about after ~10 years you can expect to be PRO. This is when you dedicate 20 hours per week to trading/learning and in paralel work your regular work (and yes you applay this 10000 h rule to your regular work - in that way you will earn faster capital needed for trading).

Quoting PeterCaleb
This is also how one can arrive at creating Price ratings. I don't care if people think I'm making this up - either you will lose money because you ignored it or you'll at least breakeven if not benefit from generating your own ratings process. People need to realize when day trading that markets are manipulated, however, this is not a dirty word. It just is. Read what I have written previously about ratings and you will see that a market cannot function without them.
Ok will go to your profile and search within your posts by various keywords. Here for "rating" - will read:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: peter_on_ratings.png Size: 67 KB

Peter, what other very important keywords you would advise looking for in your previous posts?

Quoting PeterCaleb
In fact, even when you go to the shops to buy milk and you are standing there in the aisle looking at the products and you see all those prices, you are seeing ratings. Placement on the shelf + spectacle of advertising + viewable value of discount or special price offered + attractive appeal of savings for good value. See now? Ratings. FX is just an extension of earlier incarnations eg. primary industry markets - eg. pork belly and corn. Different in some ways but still possesses the same undertones.
Split your text. Yes hard to follow but it is my problem. Thank you Peter will read all this again and try to learn.

Quoting PeterCaleb
People need to stop being drawn in by all the "lingo and jargon" people like to use these days to "describe and explain" all these things re: trading. Try a different way and become more objective without being dismissive of what is necessary.
Agree on that. Those "thin liquidity" "concepts" here... remember you said regarding that somehow this (not exact words): not all money is on table when trading happens. So that "liquidity" is only what is allowed to us to see. And in any moment somebody can open his pocket and attack market with additional liquidity. I am right here? Ok will find your exact post later..

Quoting PeterCaleb
So once you understand value and ratings there is no need for high leverage, practice or real. EXCEPT in specific situations when you have the highest degree of advantage. And once you truly respect this about trading, fear and greed are a thing of the past. Leveraging up doesn't make you achieve your goals in trading nor be able to enjoy your trading, it hinders or destroys it. And it doesn't make one a great trader in your own eyes, it's just the tip of the stem of the cherry on top. I hope that helps. Peter
Again true. Peter most of your posts are full with wisdom. But my "cup" (brains) are full with mess and I cant put in them anything new. So your wisdom and advices for most of people is "too much information"... including my self. I agree I am full with garbage... Your speaking might sound rude sometimes but it does not matter. This is how you try to "empty" our brains from dirt. In order to put new info in brains - people need to have place for that. To release dirt.

I bet you are a rich person and very expierenced trader. Thank you Peter for your time and commitment here
  • #2,378
  • Edited 7:41am Jul 24, 2021 2:29am | Edited 7:41am
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi Bilal, Well said, and congratulations on your recent holiday venture in (high frequency lol) trading, well done imo. Your ability to ‘hold’ trades (well past a point where I would have closed in profit) is very impressive in my eyes to say the least while you did mention that you ‘partially’ close trades along the way in profit so I do understand that part also. I would say only you yourself will know best when to commence live trading. And while another poster, PeterC, does get some stick from the mob on here (maybe more so for his verbal...
Hi Pete

The brutal day trading was not less than a thriller action movie like the attached chart from left right and corners sell/buy and then sell and all in profit.

Thank you for taking time out to comment, appreciate and practical suggestions with regard to job and trading, i am touched


Quoting PeterCaleb
For most of you 'brought up' on mt4 and 5 and the like, I will show you what I mean in a format you are familiar with here ..... {image} Here and now, you can make whatever assessment (or judgment) you like about what is shown in this picture. IT IS FOR YOU. Not me. SO have at it. But remember, the more you judge the less you observe and learn and THINK. ........ Value and Ratings. Peter
attached my M5 GBPUSD chart showing three trades:

if you can mention some annotation on your chart would be more useful though i know why i first sell at premium prices (taken major profits) and buy at discount prices and again sell and all in my favor.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ce965a024fd7f983583132fa31dc7b4c.png Size: 604 KB
"Exchange of hands"
  • #2,379
  • Jul 24, 2021 2:39am Jul 24, 2021 2:39am
Quoting PeterCaleb
Leverage of "X" too much is a throat slitter. Leverage is a multiplier and so greed and fear are of no value to someone who is not exceeding a counterpoint of its use. Eg. Bilal says he's using 1:500. BUT also states that it's not about money but about pips. So .... which is it ........ from a psychological perspective? Leveraging up doesn't make you achieve your goals in trading nor be able to enjoy your trading, it hinders or destroys it. And it doesn't make one a great trader in your own eyes, it's just the tip of the stem of the cherry on top....
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Hi Pete, you are correct to call accountants as fiscally prudent. This ingrained training makes "accountant" traders to think more about the cost of losing rather than the profit of winning. More about ways to lose than ways to win, it's a weird inverted view about trading. Being naturally more risk averse, the mindset is tuned on avoiding risk by risking few to gain more. That's the "accountant's" trading strategy in a nutshell.
Hi Peter / Bwilliam

Thank you for taking time out and sharing you suggestions!

i totally agree Bwilliam i dont take risk perhaps my accountant side leverage on other side is the risk taking side some how i have to balance both.

regards
bilal
"Exchange of hands"
  • #2,380
  • Jul 24, 2021 8:55am Jul 24, 2021 8:55am
Hi bilal,
Thanks for sharing ICT video on the eurusd economic CALENDAR - I watched it and marked up some of the levels - If you cross reference the dollar index against this it helps with your targets.
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