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The brutal truth of day trading

  • #2,261
  • Jul 21, 2021 9:57pm Jul 21, 2021 9:57pm
Quoting RickM
And unfortunately the brutal truth of day trading is you need to trade a large account. Without large capital, I think day trading is profitable but you will never earn enough to safety achieve a weekly wage.
Hey RickM,

I would say if you want to try and make a good portion of your living with day trading, any trading really, you will need a sizable account. In my early years of trading I was working a couple of part time jobs. I downsized my life and was very cheap. Almost like college but instead of coming out in debt with no job, after 4 years I came out with knowledge and a way to replicate the success I had achieved after 5 years of trying. It was not easy, but it has been worth it.

- Ric
Be humble or get humbled
  • #2,262
  • Jul 21, 2021 10:26pm Jul 21, 2021 10:26pm
Quoting here2there
{quote} Thank you for the explanation. That sounds reasonable. I would like to see how you put this into practice. Your approach to the market is similar to the way this other guy I know of trades. He is a grid trader. He places a hedge with a tight stop on small bars for breakout trades, and for big bars he uses limit orders at levels where stop losses would typically be placed (the high or low of the bar). He uses wholes, halves, and quarters for a grid.
I start trading with a hedge of 2 pips difference and unhedge buy at 150% ADR peak and liquidate sell at 50% of ADR. A trade in a fortnight or month. Any instrument with 500 pips at 150 % of ADR is my target. I use alert as I dont know how to link pending order with ADR trigger. Always futures because no need to pay swap fees. At the same time I buy Put option and sell call option tripling risks instead of slogging every day. It is funful yet rewarding trading.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #2,263
  • Edited 11:13pm Jul 21, 2021 10:36pm | Edited 11:13pm
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This is hilarious.

Here's a simple way to understand this =

YOU can day trade (open an order after open and close the order before close) because YOU are allowed to do so. You have 0 rights when it comes to "if" you can. The same goes for all the "other styles" or approaches. SO my overview of all this is simple - learn to do and appreciate all of them.

To me, it's the only way you can navigate the world of trading and survive whatever changes occur to society and within the financial or trading world. People are far too quick to assume the "Oh well, that's just the way things are here" position in their life and trading. It really is so very petty and childish how people "argue" about these things.

To me, those people who enjoy persisting in this sort of argument are really just saying --- "BUT I don't wannna learn all that other stuuuuff !" Or "Politics and Geo-politics and all that stuff is not my thing/I don't see that's needed" or (I love this one!) .... "I don't believe in that way of doing things!". Hehehehe.


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As for all the other ingredients that are needed and wanted for proper trading, the more excuses a person uses, the more they try and argue against basic common sense the more it proves their attitude exceeds their usefulness as a trader.

Majority of people I see here, "expect" life and the markets to just keep going the way they have, forever.

There are 2 very final outcomes and conclusions that you must arrive at here --- trading is about what you keep and what you see changing in the world on all its layers. If you have not yet arrived at this point, then I suggest you stop wasting time and pull your head out of your ass. In my experience silly people argue over the petty stuff but they expect to be treated with any respect and dignity and what's worse, is they tend to feel entitled to that respect.

If you think the petty stuff is really that important, then I would say you're the type of person who needs to lose everything in these markets JUST to learn one single simple lesson.

So unfortunately, for most people, this is what will have to happen to you. Too busy squabbling. or 'head down bum up' and you think you deserve ANY sort of respect?

And for the morons in the vicinity, this is not trolling. It's a wake up call.

You have no right to trade anything. You are GRANTED the opportunity to TRY and trade for potential profit. Does NO ONE read the PDSs or regulatory codes of the market you trade?

With ANY finance marketplace, there are always 3 layers - the inner 'movers and shakers', the internal subordinates and lastly the general public. Since most people are living in some dream state re: trading, you are most likely in the outer layer. So you have the LEAST concise and toe-on-toe information. This means you are behind the 8-ball for the outset. So .....

ANYONE who wants to argue that more of the BETTER QUALITY type of information will harm your intended (well rounded) situation then I suggest you seek medical aid immediately. Your brain is broken. You actually believe your opinion is something more and actually worth anything real.

This means that all your screwing around arguing and debating over all this crap, is wasting time.

It's so simple I can't believe people actually debate this crap -- if your trading is premised on assumptions then you're screwed. NOT due to a trade by trade performance view etc, but from a measure of "what else are you making assumptions about?" and "how deep do those assumptions run?"

If you constantly use outside sourced data then you are at the whims of outside your control. If you haven't yet learned to be self sufficient within your trading then you better start.

And so, who cares what you think of me, the more you focus on THAT, the easier it is to spot the dumbasses in life regardless of how "good" you are at trading. Unteachable, unable to be helped and would prefer to be "right" instead of improving.

Of course here, I am talking to all the "real people". Not the phony ID people OR the people who are obsessed with trade explorers and showing off and being sycophantic. Or the "you've got a friend in me" people who don't see the ridiculous irony of a "trading social media" website hehehehe.

There. I think that about does it.
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #2,264
  • Jul 22, 2021 12:30am Jul 22, 2021 12:30am
Quoting superamigo
{quote} it depends also what leverage you are trading. 100$ with leverage only 1/30 it is almost impossible make this money growup
Agree with you.

Theory: if you can manage to earn 100% consistent yearly then you can turn 100$ into 1 mil in ~14 years.

Reality: They can earn consistently ~66% yearly 30 years in a row. I think that's maximum what is possible consistently.

With leverage 1:10 it is possible to trade 100$ and earn 100% yearly (but with about 50% drawdown - high risk tolerance). But more realistic is to earn about 40-60% yearly (with max dd about 20-30%). This is what my EAs prove when tons of optimizations/backtests were made.

Keep in mind you have to use cent accounts if you have only 100$ start capital. You need to split it at least into 10 parts (accounts) to run different setups in parallel and diversify. You need at least 100 EAs running in parallel.

Bet on 1 EA is a bad idea. No holy grail exists. All EAs based on statistic patterns results fluctuate (that's the nature of the statistics approach). Therefore you need n EAs to cover fluctuation issues in the long term.
  • #2,265
  • Jul 22, 2021 12:44am Jul 22, 2021 12:44am
Quoting riclater211
{quote} Hey ryuryu, Longer term trading in no way sucks. Just so you know. - Ric
Waren Bufftet for ryuryu seems is a sucker...?

When you have more money you dont have to run like crazy scalper anymore. You are not a rat anymore who is forced to run all around and seek food. When you have enough money you can afford fewer trades to do and take less risks.

It is ok to scalp if small capital. Yes you need to take huge risks then. Anybody who starts any business at the beginning takes huge risks. But as you gain capital you can continue to earn in a more relaxed fashion. The same in trading - "day trading" is for beginners who survive 10%, then those who survived continue with a more safe approach.
  • #2,266
  • Jul 22, 2021 1:45am Jul 22, 2021 1:45am
Quoting bilal1947
{quote} At the end of the Xtreme brutal day trading {image}
Update:

the Xtreme brutal day trading is on:
for charts sneak peek:
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...6#post13637396
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"Exchange of hands"
  • #2,267
  • Jul 22, 2021 1:57am Jul 22, 2021 1:57am
Quoting bilal1947
{quote} Update: the Xtreme brutal day trading is on: for charts sneak peek: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...6#post13637396 {image}
tnx for sharing. See in your thread you are an honest trader. You post before and after. All visible/audited. Excellent results so far!
  • #2,268
  • Jul 22, 2021 2:17am Jul 22, 2021 2:17am
Quoting gepards
{quote} tnx for sharing. See in your thread you are an honest trader. You post before and after. All visible/audited. Excellent results so far!
Thanks
"Exchange of hands"
  • #2,269
  • Jul 22, 2021 3:10am Jul 22, 2021 3:10am
Bravo! The folks in this thread have correctly identified a troll, and they have stopped feeding it! It will move on soon.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #2,270
  • Jul 22, 2021 5:03am Jul 22, 2021 5:03am
Quoting jmn5611
Bravo! The folks in this thread have correctly identified a troll, and they have stopped feeding it! It will move on soon.


Here jimmyboy ..... enjoy ....


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Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #2,271
  • Jul 22, 2021 5:26am Jul 22, 2021 5:26am
Quoting gepards
{quote} Agree with you. Theory: if you can manage to earn 100% consistent yearly then you can turn 100$ into 1 mil in ~14 years. Reality: They can earn consistently ~66% yearly 30 years in a row. I think that's maximum what is possible consistently. With leverage 1:10 it is possible to trade 100$ and earn 100% yearly (but with about 50% drawdown - high risk tolerance). But more realistic is to earn about 40-60% yearly (with max dd about 20-30%). This is what my EAs prove when tons...
For me it doesnt work. with my leverage 1/30 minimous i accept to work it is 1000$
  • #2,272
  • Jul 22, 2021 5:39am Jul 22, 2021 5:39am
Quoting gepards
{quote} Agree with you. Theory: if you can manage to earn 100% consistent yearly then you can turn 100$ into 1 mil in ~14 years. Reality: They can earn consistently ~66% yearly 30 years in a row. I think that's maximum what is possible consistently. With leverage 1:10 it is possible to trade 100$ and earn 100% yearly (but with about 50% drawdown - high risk tolerance). But more realistic is to earn about 40-60% yearly (with max dd about 20-30%). This is what my EAs prove when tons...
I forgot to tell. I only trade manually. I dont feel safe trusting in a bot. My expectation it is between 40 and 60% yearly. I expect between 7 and 10 year to i consider me a profissional trader. I think above 50000$ it is enough free capital to be a profissional trader. I dont have a high cost living. I can live with only 500$ per month.
  • #2,273
  • Jul 22, 2021 5:46am Jul 22, 2021 5:46am
Quoting gepards
{quote} Waren Bufftet for ryuryu seems is a sucker...? When you have more money you dont have to run like crazy scalper anymore. You are not a rat anymore who is forced to run all around and seek food. When you have enough money you can afford fewer trades to do and take less risks. It is ok to scalp if small capital. Yes you need to take huge risks then. Anybody who starts any business at the beginning takes huge risks. But as you gain capital you can continue to earn in a more relaxed fashion. The same in trading - "day trading" is for beginners...
The topic was that it is impossible to be profitable with day trading, only long-term. But it is, for sure, possible.
If you like to trade long-term why not? There is no need to proof that long-term is profitable.
Observer effect
  • #2,274
  • Jul 22, 2021 5:50am Jul 22, 2021 5:50am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} The topic was that it is impossible to be profitable with day trading, only long-term. But it is, for sure, possible. If you like to trade long-term why not? There is no need to proof that long-term is profitable.
It is possible to make money day trading. There are very few retail traders in the world that can actually pull that off and are consistent with their profits. But big possibility is, none of those are on FF here. Trade safe.
  • #2,275
  • Jul 22, 2021 5:57am Jul 22, 2021 5:57am
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} It is possible to make money day trading. There are very few retail traders in the world that can actually pull that off and are consistent with their profits. But big possibility is, none of those are on FF here. Trade safe.
It is possible to make money long time frame trading. There are very few retail traders in the world that can actually pull that off and are consistent with their profits. But big possibility is, none of those are on FF here. Trade safe.

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  • #2,276
  • Jul 22, 2021 6:03am Jul 22, 2021 6:03am
Quoting BlackNapkins
{quote} It is possible to make money long time frame trading. There are very few retail traders in the world that can actually pull that off and are consistent with their profits. But big possibility is, none of those are on FF here. Trade safe. {image}
It's "long term trading, or swing trading" it is not "long time frame trading". There are few people here on FF that make money and approach this business professionally. You are definitely not one of those.
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  • #2,277
  • Jul 22, 2021 6:11am Jul 22, 2021 6:11am
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} It's "long term trading, or swing trading" it is not "long time frame trading". There are few people here on FF that make money and approach this business professionally. You are definitely not one of those. {image}
But of course I'm not a trader, I never use that word for myself because I'm not fooling myself, are you?
  • #2,278
  • Jul 22, 2021 6:11am Jul 22, 2021 6:11am
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} It is possible to make money day trading. There are very few retail traders in the world that can actually pull that off and are consistent with their profits. But big possibility is, none of those are on FF here. Trade safe.
i´m swinger but sometimes my trades are closed on same day because sometimes the price move very fast, but usually my trades take 2 or 3 days
I do average between 3 and 4 trades per month. I think really very unlikely i lose all my capital. I think it is so probable i guess the lottery numbers than I lose all my capital in trading
  • #2,279
  • Jul 22, 2021 6:13am Jul 22, 2021 6:13am
Quoting superamigo
{quote} i´m swinger but sometimes my trades are closed on same day because sometimes the price move very fast, but usually my trades take 2 or 3 days I do average between 3 and 4 trades per month. I think really very unlikely i lose all my capital. I think it is so easy i guess the lottery numbers than I lose all my capital in trading
I hold positions between 1 day to 3 months, it depends of the fundamentals and the trends.
  • #2,280
  • Jul 22, 2021 6:14am Jul 22, 2021 6:14am
Quoting BlackNapkins
{quote} But of course I'm not a trader, I never use that word for myself because I'm not fooling myself, are you?
No one cares really. If you are not trading/investing, why are you here wasting your time? Either put in some work, and if you don't want to, get off your lazy behind and go do something useful with your time. Pick another career. Don't be a fool.
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