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The brutal truth of day trading

  • #2,241
  • Jul 21, 2021 5:42pm Jul 21, 2021 5:42pm
Quoting Waveskierrob
{quote} That's very honest of you to admit that you are part of the 95% , don't worry in time with a little coaching and for you to open up to other ideas I'm sure you will become profitable, I wish you luck, once again it takes guts to admit that your trading sucks
My trading is good for me. I make a full time income from it. Meaning, I pay my mortgage, car insurance, food, vacations and so on. But since you are the first to respond with stupidity, that says it all, that you do not earn money from trading, and you do not make money and pay all your bills from trading. I do, but looks like you do not. Thank you for being honest, but it's ok, you will learn how to trade one day maybe. Most likely never. Trade safe.
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  • #2,242
  • Jul 21, 2021 5:47pm Jul 21, 2021 5:47pm
Quoting gepards
{quote} Depending on starting capital and risk tolerance. {quote} This is just playing with history... to see what is possible theoretically. Not guaranteed in real life. More realistic to earn 1st mil $ is by attracting investors. About 5 years then needed - to establish creditability, gain followers, show consistent results etc
it depends also what leverage you are trading. 100$ with leverage only 1/30 it is almost impossible make this money growup
  • #2,243
  • Jul 21, 2021 5:48pm Jul 21, 2021 5:48pm
Quoting Techanalyst
The kind of threads people create on FF the thread titles and so on, I am now 100% convinced that 95% and more are definitely not trading at all for a living. I have read some posts, like day trading and so on, and I can't believe sometimes what people are saying. Beside those people not trading for a living meaning, not earning money from trading to pay their rents, mortgages, car payments, insurance, food and so on, it makes me wonder, what do they actually do for a living????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I haven't read it, but the number of questions! Like!

P.S. Day trading rule, long-term sucks
Observer effect
  • #2,244
  • Edited 6:16pm Jul 21, 2021 5:53pm | Edited 6:16pm
Quoting riclater211
Hey All, It seems to me that a major issue that is still going in this thread is day traders and scalpers are trying to defend the fact that they day trade/scalp from traders who don't. I said it once and I will say it again. There is no wrong way to trade as long you make money. If RickM trades 50 times a day and he is making money, great. I am happy to hear it. If I trade 50 times a year and I am happy with the results, fantastic. Should it matter if I don't trade the same way as RickM? How about a little test as proof that what time frame you...
It actually matters. The supply/demand zones works on higher time frames like daily, weekly and monthly. Supply/demand on 15min, 5min, and especially 1minute is useless. You can't find supply/demand on lower timer frames, they are random and unpredictable. That is the difference. Plus the fundamentals, macro and micro analysis. All combined works very well on higher time frames.

The 10- 20 pips is random, 100+ pips either up or down is not random. It's fundamentals and something is happening. Interest rates, GDP, inflation, on and on. You just have to know how to apply it into trading. That is a big difference, than just looking at the chart and claiming you are a "day trader" making money on some "patterns" and so on.
  • #2,245
  • Jul 21, 2021 5:54pm Jul 21, 2021 5:54pm
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} I haven't read it, but the number of questions! Like! P.S. Day trading rule, long-term sucks
Whatever you like. The question is, do you earn full time income from "day trading" are you able to pay your mortgage, food, car, food, vacations from day trading?
  • #2,246
  • Jul 21, 2021 5:58pm Jul 21, 2021 5:58pm
Quoting Mpfreefx
Question for the room; why arent more fx traders using binary options? Choosing time expiries near the close of sessions seems to be a sure fire way to take advantage of intraday volatility. Given some basic knowledge of quarter levels theory combined with the 7-1-7/9-1-5 time strategy. Seems so obvious to me how safe it is, excluding Sun/Mon and Fri. of couse
Because the transaction costs and the risk of a broker's dishonesty outweigh the profitability.
  • #2,247
  • Jul 21, 2021 6:01pm Jul 21, 2021 6:01pm
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} My trading is good for me. I make a full time income from it. Meaning, I pay my mortgage, car insurance, food, vacations and so on. But since you are the first to respond with stupidity, that says it all, that you do not earn money from trading, and you do not make money and pay all your bills from trading. I do, but looks like you do not. Thank you for being honest, but it's ok, you will learn how to trade one day maybe. Most likely never. Trade safe. {image}
  • #2,248
  • Jul 21, 2021 6:05pm Jul 21, 2021 6:05pm
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} Whatever you like. The question is, do you earn full time income from "day trading" are you able to pay your mortgage, food, car, food, vacations from day trading?
How many vacations? I got 6 per year (that covid!!!), every 2 moth * 1 week.
Observer effect
  • #2,249
  • Jul 21, 2021 6:05pm Jul 21, 2021 6:05pm
USDCHF bullish. Fundamentals confirms it.
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  • #2,250
  • Jul 21, 2021 7:38pm Jul 21, 2021 7:38pm
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} I haven't read it, but the number of questions! Like! P.S. Day trading rule, long-term sucks
Hey ryuryu,

Longer term trading in no way sucks. Just so you know.

- Ric
Be humble or get humbled
  • #2,251
  • Jul 21, 2021 8:07pm Jul 21, 2021 8:07pm
Quoting riclater211
Hey All, It seems to me that a major issue that is still going in this thread is day traders and scalpers are trying to defend the fact that they day trade/scalp from traders who don't. I said it once and I will say it again. There is no wrong way to trade as long you make money. If RickM trades 50 times a day and he is making money, great. I am happy to hear it. If I trade 50 times a year and I am happy with the results, fantastic. Should it matter if I don't trade the same way as RickM? How about a little test as proof that what time frame you...
Hi ric

I think there is a component I would like to add here and is the most important factor in achieving profitability if you are a day trader.
If you want to win every single day scalping the markets - you must master one aspect.

Not technical’
Not fundamental’s
Not psychological crap.

POSITION SIZING

It really gets down to that, aggressive use of a three tiered position size strategy.

1.. We need to be aggressive and attack the market.
2.. We need to aggressively defend our positions at all costs.

I took 119 trades last night in achieving a increase in equity of 0.44%.
I need 0.25% to achieve a milestone.
In a week I need to achieve a minimum of 6 milestones to pay my mortgage.

25% of those trades were attacking the market, 75% of those trades were defending my positions.
50% were tier one position size
40% were tier two position size
10% were tier three position size.

Without tier three position size, I would achieve little or no daily profits.
You have to start trading on tier one position size.
If you enter on tier two or tier three position size

YOU BETTER BE BLOODY RIGHT

PS. The name milestone is one ryuryu came up with and it stuck - I like it

Cheers
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #2,252
  • Jul 21, 2021 8:19pm Jul 21, 2021 8:19pm
And unfortunately the brutal truth of day trading is you need to trade a large account.

Without large capital, I think day trading is profitable but you will never earn enough to safety achieve a weekly wage.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #2,253
  • Edited 8:52pm Jul 21, 2021 8:32pm | Edited 8:52pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} ...there is a component I would like to add here and is the most important factor in achieving profitability if you are a day trader. If you want to win every single day scalping the markets - you must master one aspect. Not technical’ Not fundamental’s Not psychological crap....
I disagree. These things are always important in trading. Some more than others, depending on your strategy.

And frankly, this comment of yours causes me to question your experience as a trader.

UPDATE: Don't mind what I just said. I read what you wrote more carefully and understand what you mean. For some reason it stuck in my mind that you were saying technicals, fundamentals, and psychology are not important for a day trader to be consistently profitable.
Learn from your mistakes and march on.
  • #2,254
  • Jul 21, 2021 9:03pm Jul 21, 2021 9:03pm
Quoting here2there
{quote} I disagree. These things are always important in trading. Some more than others, depending on your strategy. And frankly, this comment of yours causes me to question your experience as a trader. UPDATE: Don't mind what I just said. I read what you wrote more carefully and understand what you mean. For some reason it stuck in my mind that you were saying technicals, fundamentals, and psychology are not important for a day trader to be consistently profitable.
What i understood from his post, for scalper it is not for other traders, that for scalper it is not required to know fundamental, technical and psychlogical.

this clearly shows he is a fighter, he knows how to position size his trades and excellent at trade management, how to win even a clear losing battle.
I am a weak nerve person i have yet to learn this.
"Exchange of hands"
  • #2,255
  • Jul 21, 2021 9:09pm Jul 21, 2021 9:09pm
Quoting bilal1947
{quote} What i understood from his post, for scalper it is not for other traders, that for scalper it is not required to know fundamental, technical and psychlogical. this clearly shows he is a fighter, he knows how to position size his trades and excellent at trade management, how to win even a clear losing battle. I am a weak nerve person i have yet to learn this.
The way I understand it is it's not that he is saying technicals, fundamentals, and psychology are not important, but rather that it's not necessary to master them in order to be a successful day trader. And apparently, he doesn't have a high opinion of psychological stuff as it pertains to trading.
Learn from your mistakes and march on.
  • #2,256
  • Jul 21, 2021 9:24pm Jul 21, 2021 9:24pm
Quoting here2there
{quote} I disagree. These things are always important in trading. Some more than others, depending on your strategy. And frankly, this comment of yours causes me to question your experience as a trader. UPDATE: Don't mind what I just said. I read what you wrote more carefully and understand what you mean. For some reason it stuck in my mind that you were saying technicals, fundamentals, and psychology are not important for a day trader to be consistently profitable.
Hi here2there

I was trying to explain that the position size on entry is very important. We can’t time out entry’s perfectly most times, it can be a few pips too early or a few pips too late.

1.. If we are too early, we can add a tier two size trade at the correct position and profit.
2.. If we enter at the right spot and the trade goes into profit, we can either take a small profit or add to a winning position.
3.. If we enter too late, we can enter a tier two size position to either profit quickly or hedge / cut trade if it goes against us with only a small loss.

Lets call a trade one a scout trade (borrowed that term from Profitfarmer). The idea is it gets us in a position we believe is true then we can profit early / stay in, or we start defending the position.

My idea about day trading is to search for 15-25 small winning trades - we have our profit target with very little stress.
Actually almost no stress to be honest.

As for trading, I use technical’s where I consider volume and delta readings taken directly of CME Futures data. I then match it with my Sine Wave settings for actual trade opportunities.

Cheers

PS. Fundamentals only interfere with day traders, pain in the arse

edit — If we enter on a tier one trade size (small position), the psychological aspects are irrelevant

edit 2—- I have a Apple Watch and notice the following. When I enter a trade one position size, my heart beat is unchanged. When I enter a tier three size trade, my heart beats increases to over 90 beats a minute.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #2,257
  • Jul 21, 2021 9:26pm Jul 21, 2021 9:26pm
Quoting here2there
{quote} The way I understand it is it's not that he is saying technicals, fundamentals, and psychology are not important, but rather that it's not necessary to master them in order to be a successful day trader. And apparently, he doesn't have a high opinion of psychological stuff as it pertains to trading.
Well, you misunderstood it, no harm is done. Only all the screens turned off at Time Square...
  • #2,258
  • Jul 21, 2021 9:32pm Jul 21, 2021 9:32pm
Quoting Viktory
Peter, why do you have a fetish with laddies and BIG letters?



Do you kiss someone with those lips? So you enjoy thinking as a grotty degenerate then? Mmmm interesting. Remind me later to NEVER ask you to look after my children. On the other hand, do so. And watch as my eldest son take you by the scruff of your neck and show you what we do to people who "like" little children. He has 2 girls, so I can tell you he won't go easy on you.

Anymore distasteful comments?

Hopefully not.
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #2,259
  • Jul 21, 2021 9:33pm Jul 21, 2021 9:33pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi here2there I was trying to explain that the position size on entry is very important. We can’t time out entry’s perfectly most times, it can be a few pips too early or a few pips too late. 1.. If we are too early, we can add a tier two size trade at the correct position and profit. 2.. If we enter at the right spot and the trade goes into profit, we can either take a small profit or add to a winning position. 3.. If we enter too late, we can enter a tier two size position to either profit quickly or hedge / cut trade if it goes against...
Thank you for the explanation. That sounds reasonable. I would like to see how you put this into practice.

Your approach to the market is similar to the way this other guy I know of trades. He is a grid trader. He places a hedge with a tight stop on small bars for breakout trades, and for big bars he uses limit orders at levels where stop losses would typically be placed (the high or low of the bar). He uses wholes, halves, and quarters for a grid.
Learn from your mistakes and march on.
  • #2,260
  • Jul 21, 2021 9:50pm Jul 21, 2021 9:50pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi ric I think there is a component I would like to add here and is the most important factor in achieving profitability if you are a day trader. If you want to win every single day scalping the markets - you must master one aspect. Not technical’ Not fundamental’s Not psychological crap. POSITION SIZING It really gets down to that, aggressive use of a three tiered position size strategy. 1.. We need to be aggressive and attack the market. 2.. We need to aggressively defend our positions at all costs. I took 119 trades last night in achieving...
Hey RickM,

Position size is very important indeed. It was one of the main reasons I stayed with Oanda for so long. Oanda has its issues but one thing that remains is the ability to fully customize lot size. I found that very important in my early days. It is one thing that I miss now that I mostly trade in the futures game. Being able to trade exactly the calculated amount was great for money management and risk. 2 aspects of trading that are often just glanced over.

- Ric
Be humble or get humbled
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