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Maximum overkill Close-All script

  • #81
  • May 5, 2021 11:45am May 5, 2021 11:45am
Quoting Nicholishen
{quote} It's important to understand the difference between closing offsetting orders separately vs. closing them using closeby. When you close offsetting orders separately: you get charged twice; once for each individual order. When you use closeby: your platform will show individual orders with separate commissions while they are open, however, closeby sends a special command to the broker server to reconcile the offsetting orders like an options deal. That is, one order was OPEN and the second was CLOSE. It will then be reconciled as a round-trip...
If you get only charged the commission once isn´t that a disadvantage from the brokers point of view?

So normally closing 1 buy and 1 sell @ 1 lot i get charged 2 x $7 per lot, so $14 in total for two orders.

So they say, okay we lost a $7 here due to the client/trader closing orders like in your described way instead of paying it twice?

I am a noob and have to admit i do not fully understand it. So the advantage here for me as a trader is by closing trades in such "optimized way", is that i then only would pay commissions for one order instead of both right?

Can you then close the the second opposite order you placed to be hedged at a later stage even if you already closed the initial order at an ealier stage and then still only get charged the commission once for both orders after they were closed at different times?

So lets say i BUY 1 lot at 1.39200.
'
Price is starting to move against me...

Now instead of having a fixed SL at 1.39100 (-10 Pips) I decide to open a "hedge" and execute a SELL 1 lot at 1.39100.

I am now hedged at -10 Pips and can start concentrate on something else than trading and come back later.

I come back later and notice that my initial buy entry of 1 Lot is in floating profits while the 1 lot sell is negative. I get a new signal telling me to go short.

Now instead of placing a new SELL trade, i exit the positive long position of my hedged trade.

I am now left with 1 floating short position of 1 Lot that i like to exit after reaching a new take profit level on that one.

The short position hits take profit level and i exit it. I only get charged commission for 1 lot instead of 2 ?
  • #82
  • May 5, 2021 12:04pm May 5, 2021 12:04pm
@lddd,

No, that's not how it works. When you have a long trade and you decide to close it, even though you just say close, the broker actually has to go hunt down somebody that wants the other side of the trade - your closing of your long actually requires you to make a sell trade. By using the OrderCloseBy, you simply tell the broker not to go look for another trader because you already have the required trade. Since the broker effectively does nothing, you get the benefit of not paying commission or spread for one of the trades.

You can manually test this on a demo account to see it in action.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: closeby.png Size: 108 KB
Note that the Multiple Close by & Close By options are not displayed if there is not a hedged trade. Also go have a look at the orders in the history; you will see that one of the orders will have zero lotsize and zero commission...
  • #83
  • May 5, 2021 12:20pm May 5, 2021 12:20pm
Quoting kennyhubbard
@lddd, No, that's not how it works. When you have a long trade and you decide to close it, even though you just say close, the broker actually has to go hunt down somebody that wants the other side of the trade - your closing of your long actually requires you to make a sell trade. By using the OrderCloseBy, you simply tell the broker not to go look for another trader because you already have the required trade. Since the broker effectively does nothing, you get the benefit of not paying commission or spread for one of the trades. You can manually...
I tested the hedge panel from the other thread and yes I only got charged for one position after closing the hedge through this panel. I guess this script works similar.

However then I do not understand the exact advantage here.

Meaning if you only have to pay the commission once if you close both open positions at the same time.

Why you would then want to hedge it at all and not simply closing the failed trade for a fixed loss realized to your P/L. So you wouldn’t even need to open that second position to „hedge“ you in the first place hence only paying commission once because you only opened and closed one order.

Its a bit confusing to understand.
  • #84
  • May 5, 2021 12:28pm May 5, 2021 12:28pm
@lddd,

lol, exactly!! Hedging is a silly concept but there is firm mindset out there that believes a loss is not a loss until you close a trade. I don't agree with this mindset as I believe that all that matters is equity(not balance), so if you have a 10k balance with 5k floating loss, you have 5k...end of story. Of course the other mindset says no I have 10k and the floating loss has the potential to come back.

Now one of the arguments against hedging is the double cost and double commission. The order close by shoots that argument in the foot to a certain extent. A fully loaded hedge grid is going to still cost you in swaps, so it still doesn't make sense to do it but at least using this concept you can cut down on some of the costs..if hedging is your thing.

At the end of the day all this concept does is bring down the cost of a short term hedge to the same as that as closing the trade, as you have correctly pointed out.
  • #85
  • May 5, 2021 12:50pm May 5, 2021 12:50pm
Quoting kennyhubbard
@lddd, lol, exactly!! Hedging is a silly concept but there is firm mindset out there that believes a loss is not a loss until you close a trade. I don't agree with this mindset as I believe that all that matters is equity(not balance), so if you have a 10k balance with 5k floating loss, you have 5k...end of story. Of course the other mindset says no I have 10k and the floating loss has the potential to come back. Now one of the arguments against hedging is the double cost and double commission. The order close by shoots that argument in the foot...
Well I see the psychological advantage in hedging a trade instead of booking in the loss especially if you trade a rather large size.

But I don’t see the advantage here even if having to pay commission only once while using that script or hedge panel if that only works if you close both sides at the same time.
  • #86
  • May 5, 2021 4:35pm May 5, 2021 4:35pm
If one opens a Hedge with a Market order, then combines the hedge with an already open order to cancel them out, I don't see much difference. But if closing an order by a Limit order is desired, then one could open the Hedge with a Limit order (along with some small but appropriate slippage allowed). If the order is fully filled, you then have a Limit order that you could then offset with the original order, using CloseByOrder.

In other words, you can open any order using either a Market or Limit, but a normal MT4 Close of an order is only by a Market order. If you really want to close your order using a Limit order, then the only way would be to open the Hedge by a Limit order, then use CloseByOrder to combine and cancel each other out.

When markets are highly volatile, I know that Market orders can slip a lot. Under these same conditions, I have no idea whether Limit orders get slipped just as much, OR, whether they tend not to fill completely. Anyone with more experience with Limit orders is welcome to comment.

I would suppose that the primary usefulness of OrderCloseBy would be that you have independent EA's, where one of them has gone Long, and another opens a Short. Rather than allow each to be closed independently (and pay double-spread), you could combine the two and cancel each other out, with only 1 spread. But obviously this may screw up the logic or status of the 2+ EA's because you've manually closed something out that each EA does not expect.

I'm using USA brokers subject to FIFO rules, so that completely rules out hedging anyway. The use of CloseByOrder therefore doesn't really apply to me.
  • #87
  • May 6, 2021 5:10pm May 6, 2021 5:10pm
Quoting pips4life
If one opens a Hedge with a Market order, then combines the hedge with an already open order to cancel them out, I don't see much difference. But if closing an order by a Limit order is desired, then one could open the Hedge with a Limit order (along with some small but appropriate slippage allowed). If the order is fully filled, you then have a Limit order that you could then offset with the original order, using CloseByOrder. In other words, you can open any order using either a Market or Limit, but a normal MT4 Close of an order is only by a...
Never used limit orders. I don’t know. I use pending orders buy/sell stop or direct pressing the buy/sell buttons, so market orders i guess.

Its nice to see using this way of closing a buy and a sell order could save paying a commission for one of it.

However i have no idea why somebody should open two orders like that in the first place.

i thought it might be useful if once you are for example 1 lot buy with your initial order and Price turns against you, you then could lock any further loss on that buy position by going short 1 lot. So you are then flat for a moment and could decide if releasing one side of it at a later stage would make sense like when you get a new signal telling you to do so, however if you are forced to close both positions at the same time this obviously won’t work, so instead of placing the counter order you could same as good taken the fixed stop loss and simply open a new order with such new signal you get.

So from a monetary point of view I see no difference here (at least for my case) It seems to give no advantage here over closing my orders over the terminal like I do otherwise or using another trading panel to do so but then with the regular functionality to close my orders.

Maybe someone could provide a real life use case here presenting a chart where this hedge panel would make a difference.

I might be also not experienced enough to understand the hocus pocus, possible.
  • #88
  • May 6, 2021 8:29pm May 6, 2021 8:29pm
@lddd,

I think you are over-thinking this matter.

Quote
However i have no idea why somebody should open two orders like that in the first place.

1. It doesn't matter why people want to do this but they do and they are quite keen on it. I used to be a loyal hedge grid trader until I saw the light. Just search this forum to find several arguments about this.

Quote
So from a monetary point of view I see no difference here (at least for my case) It seems to give no advantage here over closing my orders over the terminal like I do otherwise or using another trading panel to do so but then with the regular functionality to close my orders.

2. You might not see the difference, but there is a vast difference in the way your orders are treated by the broker - and they are passing that benefit on to the client. Makes them look like the nice guy for zero sacrifice on their side. Also not all brokers offer this...

I should mention, whilst I am aware of this concept and know how it works, I have never actually found a practical use for it but, like you say - nice that it's there.
  • #89
  • May 7, 2021 5:55pm May 7, 2021 5:55pm
Quoting kennyhubbard
@lddd, I think you are over-thinking this matter. {quote} 1. It doesn't matter why people want to do this but they do and they are quite keen on it. I used to be a loyal hedge grid trader until I saw the light. Just search this forum to find several arguments about this. {quote} 2. You might not see the difference, but there is a vast difference in the way your orders are treated by the broker - and they are passing that benefit on to the client. Makes them look like the nice guy for zero sacrifice on their side. Also not all brokers offer this......
Thanks. Yes my thoughts are the same.
  • #90
  • Jul 11, 2021 1:34pm Jul 11, 2021 1:34pm
Quoting pips4life
{quote} I have found a bug with the script "FIFO_CloseAll_Options.mq4" in post #1! The technique used to sort the trades is incorrect in that the 2nd sort-by-ticket# completely overrides the first sort-by-time and does not achieve what was intended...
I found a simple 2-column sort algorithm and easily implemented it in Nicholishen's original script.

With this new version, it should be truly FIFO compliant when it closes the orders. The FIFO rule only applies to U.S. based brokers, e.g. Oanda, Forex.com (aka GAIN Capital), however there would be no harm in using it to close orders with other non-FIFO brokers.

If anyone finds any bug or has problems using this script to close orders per the FIFO rule, please report the problem along with error messages, at least the open_time, ticket# and open-vs-pending type, and the conditions which opened the orders.

Thanks again to Nicholishen for the original FIFO_CloseAll_Options.mq4 script (in post #1) without which this would have been far more difficult. (Nicholishen, you are welcome to update your post#1 with this new version if you so choose, though I haven't seen you online for quite some time, almost a year).

(version v1.02)
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 FIFO_CloseAll_Options.mq4   6 KB | 391 downloads
  • #91
  • Jul 12, 2021 11:40am Jul 12, 2021 11:40am
My just-released v1.02 works, but I realized it could be further improved to check the status of the "AutoTrading" icon/button, and the Common tab "Allow Live Trading" button, both of which must be enabled for the script to manage trades. If either are disabled, a pop-up "ERROR" is given, so you know right away that the trades were not managed.

Furthermore, if no trades were closed by the script, a pop-up "WARNING" is given. This would occur if no there were no open/pending trades to manage, or if none of the open/pending trades matched the Input variable criteria the user chose.

If users prefer a simple Print instead of Alert (pop-ups), then edit the code and change "AlertVsPrint" from true to false, or customize the code however you desire.

(version v1.03)
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 FIFO_CloseAll_Options.mq4   8 KB | 574 downloads
  • #92
  • Edited 9:28am Jan 14, 2022 1:03am | Edited 9:28am
Quoting pips4life
My just-released v1.02 works, but I realized it could be further improved to check the status of the "AutoTrading" icon/button, and the Common tab "Allow Live Trading" button, both of which must be enabled for the script to manage trades. If either are disabled, a pop-up "ERROR" is given, so you know right away that the trades were not managed. Furthermore, if no trades were closed by the script, a pop-up "WARNING" is given. This would occur if no there were no open/pending trades to manage, or if none of the open/pending trades matched the Input...
this is really cool. Can you a do it as a tiny button on a chart,compatible with mq4/5. (font, size and X and Y coordinates set by the user)
  • #93
  • Jan 15, 2022 12:18am Jan 15, 2022 12:18am
Quoting Ieis5
{quote} this is really cool. Can you a do it as a tiny button on a chart,compatible with mq4/5. (font, size and X and Y coordinates set by the user)
First of all, you have the source. I myself have no interest in a button for this because...

This is a script. A button does not make sense, nor does it make sense to write an indicator that must run on every chart just to display a button.

Instead, use a hotkey:

In the Navigator, right-mouse-click on the script. In the menu, choose "Set hotkey". Personally, I use Alt+E. ("E" for Exit) (Any choice you can remember is fine).

In whatever chart you're in, the bindkey runs the script which brings up the properties in which you could edit the two Inputs, but if nothing to customize, click "Ok".

Extra tip: (I do this ALL the time, whenever I run a hotkey to add an Indicator or run a Script, which is dozens of times per session).

You don't even have to click on "Ok" with your mouse, *IF* you can remember to hit: Tab Tab Tab Enter

Although the focus initially shows the "Ok" button is highlighted, an "Enter" will not do it! BUT, if you hit Tab 3 times, the focus moves from Ok to -> Load -> Save -> back to Ok, and this time, an "Enter" will actually do the "Ok"! No mouse click necessary.
  • #94
  • Last Post: Jan 16, 2022 8:36am Jan 16, 2022 8:36am
yeah i discovered the hotkeys a few hours ago.
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