Is it possible to reinvent the wheel? | Forex Factory

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Is it possible to reinvent the wheel?

  • #1
  • First Post: Jul 3, 2021 8:57am Jul 3, 2021 8:57am
Ever since I started studying about the financial market, specifically, forex, I hear people saying an old phrase. "Don't invent the wheel, because it already exists". I particularly disagree with this point of view, as we are within a scenario with billions of possible combinations. When you open your mouth to say this, you prevent and discourage the creation part from developing. You who use that phrase, are you claiming that nothing else can be created within the world of graphics? If so, I believe this is a frivolous statement on your part, as nothing is so good that it cannot improve. Topic open for discussion.
  • #2
  • Jul 3, 2021 9:16am Jul 3, 2021 9:16am
Don't listen to them. 99.9% of "traders" here are not traders they just post the same bullshit about rr, sl, trading philosophy etc again and again. Research, discover, try. And you will find. Don't waste your time for youtube, mentors, free winning strategies and other bullshit. Or just read it for daily fun Trading is similar to professional sports. You have to practice every day to become the best one. That's all. Find your way, your style, your approach and become a master of it.
Observer effect
  • #3
  • Jul 3, 2021 9:19am Jul 3, 2021 9:19am
Quoting ryuryu
Don't listen to them. 99.9% of "traders" here are not traders they just post the same bullshit about rr, sl, trading philosophy etc again and again. Research, discover, try. And you will find. Don't waste your time for youtube, mentors, free winning strategies and other bullshit. Or just read it for daily fun Trading is similar to professional sports. You have to practice every day to become the best one. That's all. Find your way, your style, your approach and become a master of it.

Good words. Thank you for your comment.
  • #4
  • Edited 12:28pm Jul 3, 2021 12:15pm | Edited 12:28pm
Quoting ryuryu
Don't listen to them. 99.9% of "traders" here are not traders they just post the same bullshit about rr, sl, trading philosophy etc again and again. Research, discover, try. And you will find. Don't waste your time for youtube, mentors, free winning strategies and other bullshit. Or just read it for daily fun Trading is similar to professional sports. You have to practice every day to become the best one. That's all. Find your way, your style, your approach and become a master of it.
I respectfully disagree with you and the thread starter and I'm not trying to be argumentative. If a discussion is desired then I hope a view in disagreement is ok.

In professional sports I believe the phrase especially holds true. There are basics throughout professional football, basketball, baseball, etc that hold true. No one is reinventing the wheel in professional sports. Sure they are creating variations that show up in plays and such but the wheel in professional sports for the most part is not being reinvented.

In trading I believe the problem with unprofitable traders is in fact trying to reinvent the wheel. Dismissing the basics of trading such as R:R, price action, swings, etc. is the problem. Understanding the basics of price movement in trading is necessary and if one has not developed a mastery of price then profit will allude them. If you're profitable then dismiss what I say but I would bet that if you are profitable that you have a certain mastery of the basics of the wheel. Keep doing what you're doing which is really just a variation of the wheel but probably not a reinvention. If you're not profitable then may I suggest getting back to basics. Reinventing the wheel may in fact be the issue.
  • #5
  • Jul 3, 2021 1:40pm Jul 3, 2021 1:40pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} I respectfully disagree with you and the thread starter and I'm not trying to be argumentative. If a discussion is desired then I hope a view in disagreement is ok. In professional sports I believe the phrase especially holds true. There are basics throughout professional football, basketball, baseball, etc that hold true. No one is reinventing the wheel in professional sports. Sure they are creating variations that show up in plays and such but the wheel in professional sports for the most part is not being reinvented. In trading I believe...
In sports they are trying new models again and again. They don't change basic rules like there must be 11 players in football. But inside they are trying different strategies. It depends on who they are playing against, team health and even the place/weather. Computer modeling also helps with statistics, reports and the choice of direction.

I like trading because it is fair play. In business your competitor's father can be a police boss or mayor. Or have much more money. And it will be enough to smash you and win the game. In trading (like in professional sport) it doesn't matter. It is not possible to play basketball because you are the son of a famous person. In trading the same. If you are lazy and stupid you will lose.

As for me your "Understanding the basics of price movement" is that 99.9% standard blah-blah-blah's. It is not enough to understand the basics. You must be damn good in that. You can't be a great swimmer if you only know the basics of swimming.
Observer effect
  • #6
  • Jul 3, 2021 2:58pm Jul 3, 2021 2:58pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} I respectfully disagree with you and the thread starter and I'm not trying to be argumentative. If a discussion is desired then I hope a view in disagreement is ok. In professional sports I believe the phrase especially holds true. There are basics throughout professional football, basketball, baseball, etc that hold true. No one is reinventing the wheel in professional sports. Sure they are creating variations that show up in plays and such but the wheel in professional sports for the most part is not being reinvented. In trading I believe...

(I won't answer you with a big text)
Disagreeing is so natural that it would be immature of me to be irritated by your arguments. Reinventing the wheel is modifying, improving, improving and so on. We have thousands of ways to operate. Have you ever stopped to think that your point of view is just another one? The topic does not end with your comment, as we need to hear from others on this topic. Very grateful for comment.
  • #7
  • Jul 3, 2021 3:21pm Jul 3, 2021 3:21pm
Quoting Winston Reed
Understanding the basics of price movement in trading is necessary and if one has not developed a mastery of price then profit will allude them. If you're profitable then dismiss what I say but I would bet that if you are profitable that you have a certain mastery of the basics of the wheel. Keep doing what you're doing which is really just a variation of the wheel but probably not a reinvention. If you're not profitable then may I suggest getting back to basics. Reinventing the wheel may in fact be the issue.

Not surprised your post already has several "likes".

I strongly agree.

The forum's packed with people not making a living from their trading, who would like to. I'd suggest that "reinventing the wheel" is a significant issue for most of them.

The best post I've read here for weeks (maybe months).
  • #8
  • Jul 3, 2021 3:53pm Jul 3, 2021 3:53pm
Interesting thread, possibly it's not neccessarily reinventing the wheel it's reinventing what kind of trader suits you best.
Long term, swing trader, day trader, very few a re good at all of them. Then there's mechanical, discretionary, technical, fundamental.

On the thread you have RyuRyu who is by all account a very good with EA's, I'm a discretionary day trader, Winston I belive trades
higher TF's.

Some basics which can't change short or long, win lose or B/E. What can change is how you approach your trading. Unquestionably you can reinvent yourself and I wish you luck in your journey
  • #9
  • Edited 4:51pm Jul 3, 2021 4:27pm | Edited 4:51pm
[citação = rapidamente; 13611402] {quote} Não é surpresa que sua postagem já tenha várias "curtidas". Concordo plenamente. O fórum está lotado de pessoas que não ganham a vida com seus negócios e que gostariam disso. Eu sugeriria que "reinventar a roda" é uma questão significativamente para a maioria deles. A melhor postagem que li aqui por semanas (talvez meses). [/ Citar]

Você tem sua mente engessada. Eu vou te dizer algo que quero que você leve para sua vida.

"A verdade absoluta, não existe."

Obrigado pelo seu comentário.
  • #10
  • Jul 3, 2021 4:32pm Jul 3, 2021 4:32pm
Quoting rockypoint
Interesting thread, possibly it's not neccessarily reinventing the wheel it's reinventing what kind of trader suits you best. Long term, swing trader, day trader, very few a re good at all of them. Then there's mechanical, discretionary, technical, fundamental. On the thread you have RyuRyu who is by all account a very good with EA's, I'm a discretionary day trader, Winston I belive trades higher TF's. Some basics which can't change short or long, win lose or B/E. What can change is how you approach your trading. Unquestionably you can reinvent...

Exactly.

We cannot limit ourselves or limit people. Leave them free. The human brain is a fantastic thing. We can create something new every day.

Thanks for your comment.
  • #11
  • Jul 4, 2021 9:50am Jul 4, 2021 9:50am
I thought I invented the wheel a couple times. the "eureka moment"... ahhh I miss those times! I miss my ego.. and the highs.

many many people tried very hard to invent something better than the wheel. so are you a genius or it's just ego...?
  • #12
  • Jul 4, 2021 12:12pm Jul 4, 2021 12:12pm
I think the wheel analogy is a false equivalence. We KNOW the wheel is useful. We know that re-inventing it would be a costly and probably futile endeavour. However, the wheel is not the only way to get around. We have ships, and planes (yes they need wheels, but you know what I mean). And wagon wheels are no match for racing car tires, so we've made some progress with a proven design.

With a trading system we can never really be sure of the outcome for any length of time. We can't win a few trades and then say, "job's done". Got my wheel. Why get another one? We've always got to keep ahead of a dynamic system that's trying to find edges on other competitors. So sticking with what everyone else is doing or what works now, is risky.

But I'm still not sure if trading is something that can be done 'properly' with one 'true' method that ranks above others, or if it's a case of 100 ways to climb a tree, and some are more optimal than others but they all get there in the end as long as you don't fall out of the tree. And I'm sure I'm not the only one (who isn't sure).

I'm also sure that even if you are certain that you've got your (one and only) wheel and you're safe with it that you're wrong.
  • #13
  • Jul 4, 2021 1:27pm Jul 4, 2021 1:27pm
Quoting clemmo17
I think the wheel analogy is a false equivalence. We KNOW the wheel is useful. We know that re-inventing it would be a costly and probably futile endeavour. However, the wheel is not the only way to get around. We have ships, and planes (yes they need wheels, but you know what I mean). And wagon wheels are no match for racing car tires, so we've made some progress with a proven design. With a trading system we can never really be sure of the outcome for any length of time. We can't win a few trades and then say, "job's done". Got my wheel. Why get...

The choice of theme was made with great care and attention. Reinventing the wheel is not wanting to change anything in technical and graphical analysis, but being able to hear what experienced traders have to say about the topic. Learning is not just graphic, but mastering the art of "listening". Thank you for your comment.
  • #14
  • Jul 4, 2021 2:17pm Jul 4, 2021 2:17pm
Quoting ryuryu
I like trading because it is fair play. In business your competitor's father can be a police boss or mayor. Or have much more money. And it will be enough to smash you and win the game. In trading (like in professional sport) it doesn't matter. It is not possible to play basketball because you are the son of a famous person. In trading the same.
Allways wonder how "red news" are processed... How many people involved and how much time before "official announcement" drafts of announcements exists and who have access... For example in stocks... Before company anounces earnings report... And there exists oportunities to establish an ofshore company... and trade... Just thinking...
  • #15
  • Jul 4, 2021 2:39pm Jul 4, 2021 2:39pm
Quoting joyny
{quote} Allways wonder how "red news" are processed... How many people involved and how much time before "official announcement" drafts of announcements exists and who have access... For example in stocks... Before company anounces earnings report... And there exists oportunities to establish an ofshore company... and trade... Just thinking...

I think you are on the wrong poster;
  • #16
  • Jul 4, 2021 3:18pm Jul 4, 2021 3:18pm
Quoting ryuryu
Don't listen to them. 99.9% of "traders" here are not traders they just post the same bullshit about rr, sl, trading philosophy etc again and again. Research, discover, try. And you will find. Don't waste your time for youtube, mentors, free winning strategies and other bullshit. Or just read it for daily fun Trading is similar to professional sports. You have to practice every day to become the best one. That's all. Find your way, your style, your approach and become a master of it.
And, just how do we know that you are part of the 0.1% who is a trader? Asking for a friend.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #17
  • Jul 4, 2021 4:24pm Jul 4, 2021 4:24pm
Quoting Winston Reed
In trading I believe the problem with unprofitable traders is in fact trying to reinvent the wheel.
With unprofitable ones, yes. This is exactly their problem.

Some are living in a kind of alternate reality in which they presumably imagine that there's a magic combination of indicators somewhere, waiting to be found, that will enable them to trade consistently profitably.

Some even imagine that once they find it, they'll be able to automate it with some kind of robot.

(Wouldn't that be great?!).

Quite often, clutching at this particular straw as a kind of wheel-reinvention boils down to being their substitute for actually doing the educational work involved in developing a realistic understanding of the key issues of price action, trade management and so on: the things that actually determine which people taking up trading will eventually achieve profitability.

Nobody carefully reading Michael Harris's book "Profitability And Systematic Trading" could really be left in much doubt that "trying to reinvent the wheel" is basically where the great majority of retail traders directly or indirectly have their main problem. Some of them for many years, or even decades. It's kind of a triumph of perpetual hope over experience, for some of them. The outcome being that wheels come off. And continue to do so.

It's one of these issues in trading forums where there are two main widely differing opinions. One common to those "struggling" (for want of a better word) and a totally different one common to those, like Winston Reed and Quickly, both posting above, evidently finding rather more success.

But also, in trading forums, some opinions tend to be more welcome than others.
  • #18
  • Jul 4, 2021 4:57pm Jul 4, 2021 4:57pm
Quoting KarlKraus
{quote} With unprofitable ones, yes. This is exactly their problem. Some are living in a kind of alternate reality in which they presumably imagine that there's a magic combination of indicators somewhere, waiting to be found, that will enable them to trade consistently profitably. Some even imagine that once they find it, they'll be able to automate it with some kind of robot. (Wouldn't that be great?!). Quite often, clutching at this particular straw as a kind of wheel-reinvention boils down to being their substitute for actually doing the educational...
Well said KarlKraus!!!
  • #19
  • Jul 4, 2021 4:58pm Jul 4, 2021 4:58pm
Quoting KarlKraus
{quote} With unprofitable ones, yes. This is exactly their problem. Some are living in a kind of alternate reality in which they presumably imagine that there's a magic combination of indicators somewhere, waiting to be found, that will enable them to trade consistently profitably. Some even imagine that once they find it, they'll be able to automate it with some kind of robot. (Wouldn't that be great?!). Quite often, clutching at this particular straw as a kind of wheel-reinvention boils down to being their substitute for actually doing the educational...



My opinion. The real mistake of trying to reinvent the wheel is running away from the reality of price analysis, technical and graphical analysis. But, the other point of view of trying to reinvent the wheel is, to improve what already exists. A beautiful example is the formula 1 cars. Have you ever wondered if they thought that nothing could change and be improved? But no, they are constantly evolving in search of improving the car that already exists. They don't change from car to motorcycle. They try to improve the car. Reinventing is just an analogy, for many not to fall into self-indulgence and thinking that nothing can be changed. Also in the formula you can see that we have hard tire, marcio, super soft, rain and so on. They weren't tied to just one type of tire and thus increased their performance.

Thank you very much for your comment.
  • #20
  • Jul 4, 2021 6:42pm Jul 4, 2021 6:42pm
Quoting romulorios
{quote} My opinion. The real mistake of trying to reinvent the wheel is running away from the reality of price analysis, technical and graphical analysis. But, the other point of view of trying to reinvent the wheel is, to improve what already exists. A beautiful example is the formula 1 cars. Have you ever wondered if they thought that nothing could change and be improved? But no, they are constantly evolving in search of improving the car that already exists. They don't change from car to motorcycle. They try to improve the car. Reinventing is...
The wheel in trading is the smart money, the way they operate, for example if they are buying at a certain price, they wont have any problem in droping the price next 60, 70, 100 pips in order to get stops and have liquidity to buy more.
And the thing with trading is that even if you think they are buying and they intend to bring the price higher, what will you do?
Wait for them to bring the price down and see them push the price higher without you?
Enter to not be left behind and they push price down to hunt for stops?
Things will never be perfect and at one point you need to realize that they are the ones that move price and you should play by their rules.
People try to reinvent the wheel and trade with 10, 20 ,30 pips stops, you know what is going to happen right.
Respect the wheel, try to improve it, but remeber that they are the ones that have billions, and if they say we will be using this fucking wheel, thats the wheel thats going to be used.
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