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The brutal truth of day trading

  • #1,361
  • Jun 19, 2021 10:37am Jun 19, 2021 10:37am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} He was sitting near the big pool. Girls were dancing around and drinking champagne. The sun was going down. - I'm so tired. I have so much money. I have 5-6% daily 3-4 times a week. All that girls, luxury stuff. All ashes if I can't force someone to LEARN, - thought Peter, looking on his new Rolls Royce Cullinan. Who am I if I can't teach a newbie on the forex factory forum? - Where is Peter? - Asked the topless blonde. - I want to dance! There are Infected Mushrooms already playing their set. Where is Peter? ... But Peter was in the house....
ryuryu, your surreal tale of Peter's alternate dimension is dope

Btw, I used to love Infected Mushroom...

Quoting kk100
{quote} Was the track of Infected Mushroom, Becoming Insane. No me acuerdo lo que paso Ni me di cuenta ni que me pico Todo da vueltas como un carrusel Locura recurre todita mi piel Wake me up before I change again Remind me the story that I won´t get insane Tell me why it´s always the same Explain me the reason why I´m so much in pain Before I change again... Remind me the story that I won't get insane Before I change again... Remind me the story that I won't get insane
kk100, that song was crazy at its time [well, it still is]; more with psychedelic substances. And Spanish is my first language
  • #1,362
  • Jun 19, 2021 10:44am Jun 19, 2021 10:44am
Quoting PeterCaleb
And by the way people talk around here, that's really saying something. While they're trying to be clever and play mind games with each other, you, someone who just wants to learn, will be able to realize that the entire world is not as absent minded or just plain inept as many on sites like this. Why? Put them up in the real world where consistency is paramount over anything else in the financial markets and they squeal.
Peter, it takes an empty head such as yours to make such a statement. I've challenged your pathetic ass to a trading challenge, where we can demo here, in the real world, our comparative trading skills and styles. You've refused, and you squeal with objections when challenged. You have no standing here to ramble on about things about which you know nothing. You are a fake. You know nothing. You contribute nothing of actual value. No one is leaning anything from you. But, my challenge is still on the table. Show us how you make 5% a day.
  • #1,363
  • Jun 19, 2021 10:46am Jun 19, 2021 10:46am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Peter, it takes an empty head such as yours to make such a statement. I've challenged your pathetic ass to a trading challenge, where we can demo here, in the real world, our comparative trading skills and styles. You've refused, and you squeal with objections when challenged. You have no standing here to ramble on about things about which you know nothing. You are a fake. You know nothing. You contribute nothing of actual value. No one is leaning anything from you. But, my challenge is still on the table. Show us how you make 5% a day.
Hi Ge,

I agree. Open TEs with demo accounts would be more than enough... and awesome to follow for some months

Cheers!
  • #1,364
  • Jun 19, 2021 10:50am Jun 19, 2021 10:50am
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} Please explain in full detail where the scam is? I'd love to know more about how your deranged mind works? Peter
The scam is...you. You are fake. You contribute nothing. You know nothing of value. You post long, disjointed, meaningless diatribes, where you claim deep knowledge of trading, but in actuality, your depth disappears about a scratch deep. The scam is you, Mr 5% a day.
  • #1,365
  • Edited 1:47pm Jun 19, 2021 11:58am | Edited 1:47pm
Okay guys, i am here. Whenever people claim that someone is a scam, I show up to be the judge

First of all before going into an argument with someone, I want to say that I am a swing trader who trades based on fundamentals. I agree with the thread starter. I don't think day-trading or scalping is sustainable and profitable in the long run. That's just my humble opinion, no offense to any daytraders and scalpers. I actually know some profitable daytraders and scalpers in this forum. I just don't think they can be successful for years. I also think that without knowing the dynamics and rules of the modern monetary and economic system, it's not possible to make money consistently in the long run. I am not forcing this opinion to any of you guys, but that's just what i think about this topic.

Now let's talk about the "scams" here. Peter Caleb, i took a look at your previous posts and had an idea about the way you are trading. I don't know if you are trying to "scam" people, but i can smell that you are not consistently profitable from miles away. So let's not play the "pro" here mate, there's no point in misleading people. I don't want to call someone "scam" cause it's a very heavy thing to say to a person who you don't really know. So i don't want to go to those lenghts. It is very easy to mislead newbies, so all the people here including me must be really careful when we are claiming "the truth". We wouldn't want to be the cause of people's losses.

There are lots of people here from the countries that are "poorer" than the developed countries. People who can only save 200-300 dollars a year. They deposit their not just hard earned money but also their hopes. Trust me guys i know that feeling. Due to lack of knowledge and misleading information they lose it. That means they lost their entire year, efforts and hopes. So what i expect from all the people is; back your information with proofs, prove that you are profitable. Otherwise don't talk too confident, don't talk like a "guru" or claim that you are a good trader.
You have to have an IQ higher than 90 to interact with this user.
  • #1,366
  • Jun 19, 2021 3:05pm Jun 19, 2021 3:05pm
Quoting Viktory
{quote} ryuryu, your surreal tale of Peter's alternate dimension is dope Btw, I used to love Infected Mushroom... {quote} kk100, that song was crazy at its time [well, it still is]; more with psychedelic substances. And Spanish is my first language
I use to hang goa , late 80's, that just remind me , because R, wrote story, These days most of everything what i listen, Its called Organic House.
I hope i didn't offend you.
  • #1,367
  • Jun 19, 2021 3:09pm Jun 19, 2021 3:09pm
Quoting Nordling00
Okay guys, i am here. Whenever people claim that someone is a scam, I show up to be the judge First of all before going into an argument with someone, I want to say that I am a swing trader who trades based on fundamentals. I agree with the thread starter. I don't think day-trading or scalping is sustainable and profitable in the long run. That's just my humble opinion, no offense to any daytraders and scalpers. I actually know some profitable daytraders and scalpers in this forum. I just don't think they can be successful for years. I also...



GIVE ME A BREAK, I JUST READ YOUR FIRST LINE, How You can be Swing Trader, if you do it fundamentals.
i try to read rest of your post later.
  • #1,368
  • Jun 19, 2021 3:36pm Jun 19, 2021 3:36pm
Quoting kk100
{quote} GIVE ME A BREAK, I JUST READ YOUR FIRST LINE, How You can be Swing Trader, if you do it fundamentals. i try to read rest of your post later.
I hold my positions for several weeks generally. Sometimes even for months. So i take D1 swings. I don't think i am a position trader since they even hold their trades for a year or more.
You have to have an IQ higher than 90 to interact with this user.
  • #1,369
  • Jun 19, 2021 4:04pm Jun 19, 2021 4:04pm
Quoting Nordling00
{quote} I hold my positions for several weeks generally. Sometimes even for months. So i take D1 swings. I don't think i am a position trader since they even hold their trades for a year or more.
Ok sorry i didint understood you, or your way.
  • #1,370
  • Jun 19, 2021 4:09pm Jun 19, 2021 4:09pm
Quoting Nordling00
First of all before going into an argument with someone, I want to say that I am a swing trader who trades based on fundamentals. I agree with the thread starter. I don't think day-trading or scalping is sustainable and profitable in the long run. That's just my humble opinion, no offense to any daytraders and scalpers. I actually know some profitable daytraders and scalpers in this forum. I just don't think they can be successful for years. I also think that without knowing the dynamics and rules of the modern monetary and economic system, it's...
I definitely don't agree with this. It's truth that many traders at the end get "fooled by randomness", even after some years of relative success; but as with any human activity, there are outliers (less than the 1% of said domain) who of course can make it for the long run. And I'm not speaking for myself.

Quote
Now let's talk about the "scams" here. Peter Caleb, i took a look at your previous posts and had an idea about the way you are trading. I don't know if you are trying to "scam" people, but i can smell that you are not consistently profitable from miles away. So let's not play the "pro" here mate, there's no point in misleading people. I don't want to call someone "scam" cause it's a very heavy thing to say to a person who you don't really know. So i don't want to go to those lenghts. It is very easy to mislead newbies, so all the people here including...
I totally agree with your perception about Peter. Maybe he isn't trying to "scam" people, but he's for sure a SCAM per-se.
- Without any possible doubt, he finally ended up losing ALL credibility after stating:
"I do an average (!!!!) of 5-6 % per day that I trade. Now please keep in mind this is conservative and does not happen EVERY single day of the week. But I have found that this is doable at least 3-4 times per week - on any given instrument"... only "on average" XD

Quote
There are lots of people here from the countries that are "poorer" than the developed countries. People who can only save 200-300 dollars a year. They deposit their not just hard earned money but also their hopes. Trust me guys i know that feeling. Due to lack of knowledge and misleading information they lose it. That means they lost their entire year, efforts and hopes. So what i expect from all the people is; back your information with proofs, prove that you are profitable. Otherwise don't talk too confident, don't talk like a "guru" or claim...
And yes, sadly, 99% of the public/paid "educational" trading industry is nothing else than a terribly TOXIC SCAM. But also sadly, most people are either stupid or uneducated, many young/naive Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż...
  • #1,371
  • Jun 19, 2021 4:11pm Jun 19, 2021 4:11pm
Quoting kk100
{quote} I use to hang goa , late 80's, that just remind me , because R, wrote story, These days most of everything what i listen, Its called Organic House. I hope i didn't offend you.
Mate, of course you didn't offended me. Both of you just refreshed some good memories
Nowadays I mainly listen to prog-math rock/metal...
  • #1,372
  • Edited 5:42pm Jun 19, 2021 4:14pm | Edited 5:42pm
Peter you are little.

Ask help.

I can show to you how to trade, you dont be angry and tell others are shit
be real and watxh
  • #1,373
  • Jun 19, 2021 6:04pm Jun 19, 2021 6:04pm
I agree write levels. thats its, i put level couple days ago in chart and ask.
  • #1,374
  • Jun 19, 2021 6:21pm Jun 19, 2021 6:21pm
Quoting remonpilip
source: https://www.quora.com/How-realistic-...-full-time-job Day trading reeks of impatience. In my opinion, there are several attributes to an unsuccessful trader and these are some of them; greed, desire for action, and fear of missing a profit. What do they have in common? Impatience. I think day trading appeals to people that want to make the quick score. They want to buy a system and immediately be on the road to riches. You will find this is not the case. In futures trading, patience is...
I have to say the only time I'm profitable is scalping, actually! The longer the trade, the more money I tend to lose!

My reasoning on this?

How often is the weather man correct in their 10-day forecast?
I'll give you 400-to-1 odds on it! That's long odds, isn't it? So why take those odds in the markets and try to predict what's going to happen in the long term if you're not prepared to bet money on the 10-day forecast for the weather?

The weather man is fairly right most of the time when it comes to tomorrow's weather..., though has as good a chance of getting a bullseye on a dart board 10 times in a row when it comes to predicting weather 10 days out.

Why can't we predict 10-day forecasts? Simply because there are too many variables that make up the weather (i.e. butterfly effect), so your guess as to what it's going to be 10 days out is as good as mine, which is much the same as the stock market.

The further into the future you attempt to look, the more blurry it gets! The market is made up of so many things that it's impossible to predict, especially when coupled with out of the blue news events, global disasters, fundamental and technical analysis, which were once divided into camps of investment strategies, yet are now blending into all being used in technical analysis from massive databases, etc. as one big school of thought, bad spreads, broker manipulation, social media manipulation by billionaires like Elon Musk influencing their flocks of "Musketeers", etc. etc.

It's not about a "quick score" for me, it's about limiting exposure to the market and the belief that probability dictates that in the next 10-15 minutes the price is going to fluctuate up and down around my existing position and that I can take a slice from it without too much risk, with the mentality of for each $1 risked, I'll make $2-3.

As long as I can see the longer-term trend on a higher timeframe I can "steal some crumbs" and chances are it will continue until it doesn't anymore.

The less time I stay in the market, without my money exposed to risk, the better! Who knows when the markets are going to crash? You, me, anyone? Not likely.

Where most people lose in trading isn't the riding of the existing trend, it's thinking that a trend is going to continue until it doesn't any more, then being stuck at the bottom or top with a position going against them, while they watch their money running out of their account rapidly, being frozen by fear to close the losing position, coupled with the slowly receding hope that the position will come back again! Then the anxious wait for a few days of sleepless nights in the hope that it comes back before closing out with a loss that could have been stemmed with discipline!

Been there, done that, like I think we all have at some point of our trading lives!

i.e. extrapolating to a yearly outlook, you wouldn't want to still be short on 1000 Tesla shares 10 years later, would you? Your innocent $5000 trade would have your broker with your balls in his fist, coming after you for $800,000.

Regards,


Christian
  • #1,375
  • Jun 19, 2021 9:57pm Jun 19, 2021 9:57pm
A $500.00 (Or any denomination) account.

500 / 5% AKA 20 = 25

Therefore $25.00 is your profit target for THAT specific day of activity.

NB - IF you cannot gauge even in some general way the new day's range then you definitely should not trade. For manual trading I don't want "mechanical" guessing I want a good understanding of what I can expect to happen.

The market you trade, will have its very quiet times, it's quiet times, it's partly active and it's very active times. And depending on whether you want to trade the correction/retracement or breakthrough, will determine if you use a 5min chart for entry or a combination of Tick chart and 1 or 5min chart to gain good price position.

The last part is market structure. It's a bad idea to set a hard-fast exit as it needs to be inline with what happens and not on selfish unrealistic expectations.

So, to reach a predetermined Daily % return (on those days when you trade), it will ALWAYS be a combination of .....

Observed Options for outcomes (Direction, type of activity eg correction or breakthrough etc), Value inputted (Size of position either spaced or single ticket entry), Acceptable preliminary losses vs outcome loss, Time spent.

Theses are the basics that make my trading true and real. If you have any problem with this it is YOUR problem.

So, how does $25.00 translate into points? Depends on what market and what it pays. But it will always be the same as = $25.00 / Instrument's payout (common denominator) = number of points you need as gross OR net outcome. Whichever your situation and calculations require. So if I use the GBPUSD, I earn $0.13 per 1 full point. So, $25 / 0.13 = 192.307 points or rounded up to 193. So I only need 193 (or 200 rounded up to create a 2nd buffer) for the day to reach my $25.00 target. And HOW you gather the 200 points is then left to your own understanding of yourself, the way you trade and how you evaluate and TRACK that market.

For me, I always consolidate it so I can scalp for the 'cost of doing business', then the lesser move that tends to happen that is seen as the smaller up-down movements within the greater move and finally the larger reversal. The scalp offers better time advantage, the smaller nesting doll move offers a good entry to exit to risk ratio and the greater move is the meat. If it turns against me and I am wrong about the setup I simply go with it.

You can use a weight to movement ratio .......... eg 10% invested for a 5% return across eg a 30 points movement.

Or you can use a heavier hand on one side of the ratio = Either more invested or more movement.

Whatever way you choose it has to be based on good common sense. It will protect you when you need protecting and pay you well when you do your job properly.

The job of a trader is to figure out HOW TO MAKE IT WORK. Be it the numbers and calculations or the market activity, or both.

So go call me whatever you want.

Common sense has kept me trading, not selfish, petty, shortsighted money chasing antics and group think.

Indeed there are a lot of stooges in the world and in this industry, but I don't need anyone to "sign off" on what I say or do who will say "You are telling the truth" or not. So grow up and venture outside your mother's basement for some fresh air.

To me all "this" is about fantasy traders/trading, social media rubbish and people with soft underbellies.
So you see, it doesn't matter what people think of me, I just do what I do.

Certain things in these markets are generic and are never going away and others are fads.

I respect myself and so my privacy is relevant and important so no attempt to manipulate me will work on changing this.

Common sense is invaluable and "the mob" always seem to come unstuck when it's observed that this is not a major ingredient in what they do and how they approach something. And the reactions are usually the same and frequent.

So do your worst Nordling. I use common sense as my measuring tape. Not what "other people think. do or say". I'm not persuaded by what the group thinks and therefore I'm not here to "save" or "help" or "teach". I just find it extremely fascinating the corked up rubbish people think is real despite having little to no exposure and experience in the areas they "say" they have.

Some people don't buy into all the silliness you people go on about. SOME people just want to learn to trade and live their life. They don't have the time, the patience or the inkling to waste their life getting covered in other people's turd soup on a site like this. And this site is FULL of "I know!" .... "NO ! I know!" etc.

So really, who cares what you think. Who cares what your opinion is and who cares what "the mob" thinks and says. Anyone who is actually a realistic trader would be slapping you people silly with a cold wet fish by now with all the laughable BS you think is actually real. But then again, ONLY online would people get away with it. In real life, in the flesh, most would be looking or running for the door. Now why is that I wonder?????


Great talking.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #1,376
  • Jun 19, 2021 10:03pm Jun 19, 2021 10:03pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
A $500.00 (Or any denomination) account. 500 / 5% AKA 20 = 25 Therefore $25.00 is your profit target
hello, be a man take on the challenge
  • #1,377
  • Jun 19, 2021 10:08pm Jun 19, 2021 10:08pm
Be an adult and stop thinking you cannot be found. Welcome to the 21st century.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #1,378
  • Jun 19, 2021 10:19pm Jun 19, 2021 10:19pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
Be an adult and stop thinking you cannot be found. Welcome to the 21st century. Peter
Welcome to Marina Bay Sands in Tennessee

I'm always in the adult play shop, do you need help in finding the right toys for you.
you love 69?
  • #1,379
  • Jun 19, 2021 11:22pm Jun 19, 2021 11:22pm
Stinking Thinking And False Data

The term “Stinking Thinking” is generally credited to an American psychologist Albert Ellis who was prominent in the 1960’s. It describes a self-absorbed, low awareness state of mind that many of us experience from time to time together with the tendency to engage in thoughts and cultivate beliefs that do not serve us well. Once these beliefs become entrenched in our minds it can be very difficult to free ourselves from their self limiting effects.

Stinking thinking seems to flourish in conditions of uncertainty where outcomes are unpredictable. It should therefore be no surprise that it effects the minds of many and possibly most traders, particularly in an environment saturated with false and misleading information.

The way to overcome stinking thinking is to increase self awareness. This in turn leads to better choices which in time leads to better outcomes. I know for sure that better outcomes are what I am aiming for in my trading.

Quote
ryuryu Post# 1,351
In my opinion it is total fake and unusable for any kind on analysis.

All we have is "fake" data about limit orders in the orderbook.

The problem of DOM on forex is that data are not real and no one knows what are these numbers mean/indicate

The words “fake” and “unreal” imply that this data has somehow been concocted or fabricated in a way that is deliberately false and misleading. I very much doubt if this is true. To do so would be illegal, at least in Australia. In today’s highly regulated and litigious environment, the regulated FX brokers that I deal with are acutely aware of doing anything that even vaguely suggests misleading or fraudulent conduct.

Is it really true that “no one knows what these numbers mean or indicate”? I expect that it is probably quite easy to find out. All it usually takes is a bit of time and effort to find the person who does know (no one?) and ask them. It was not however the central question that I was concerned about when I made the post.

In my post about MT5 DOM, I pointed out that I had the MT5 tick data based DOM and the CME FX Futures DOM right in front of me where I could observe both simultaneously. My key concern, clearly stated was

Quote
TraderTim #1350
I can also see how the concept of DOM is central to understanding the principles of order flow but I can't figure out how one would actually use the DOM for trading? It seems to me that both Fx spot and futures Dom's both move too fast to be directly interpreted

This was turned around in the following two posts into an illogical and unjustified attack on the use of tick data and the MT5 DOM. Not one word of advice or even opinion was offered on CME FX Futures DOM.

Both DOM's using either data source appear to me to have essentially the same problem. i.e. they both have a high volume of small orders and move too fast for an average human to be able to interpret them in real time in any sort of meaningful way.

Quote
Rick #Post1,352
That was a great post on the MT5 use of the DOM.

Its just to impress users but offers no value

My current enquiry, represented by multiple posts on this forum thread in recent weeks is to discover the How, Why and What of order flow and volume as it relates to FX spot trading. However, any question that I post that even slightly touches someone’ s existing belief provokes either a critical or hostile reaction or results in a non response.

Quote
ryuryu Post# 1,351
Don't know why and how it works, but it works.

That's why you can't understand how to use DOM for trading. Because it is impossible to use forex DOM for it

How do these examples of stinking thinking serve the fruits of enquiry and learning that this forum is supposed to engender?

Tim
Don't Guess Test
  • #1,380
  • Edited 11:43pm Jun 19, 2021 11:33pm | Edited 11:43pm
Quoting TraderTim125
Stinking Thinking And False Data The term “Stinking Thinking” is generally credited to an American psychologist Albert Ellis who was prominent in the 1960’s. It describes a self-absorbed, low awareness state of mind that many of us experience from time to time together with the tendency to engage in thoughts and cultivate beliefs that do not serve us well. Once these beliefs become entrenched in our minds it can be very difficult to free ourselves from their self limiting effects. Stinking thinking seems to flourish in conditions of uncertainty...
Hi, Tim.

More than "fake/unreal", it's like very "incomplete" and delayed (non-representative).
Although, if you wanna see a real complete DOM for centralized markets in regulated exchanges, take a look at e.g. JigsawTrdading, with cheap data from Tradovate or Zytrade (decent easy options). With all due respect, you have to pay a little in order to openly watch and produce good individual R&D.

Best.
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