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Order Block Theory - Institutional Trading Method

  • #101
  • Jun 11, 2021 4:48am Jun 11, 2021 4:48am
Quoting lonebladeRGC
{quote} Futures volume or even tick volume you should be able to identify areas of exhaustion and absorption because price is attracted to volume and is repelled by lack of volume i.e the Market Makers want to rotate price between volume at highs and volume at lows then back again; and big commercials are looking for volume in order to get all the size of entry that they're looking for.. Volume Profile isn't as precise on MT4 or TradingView for SpotFX or CFDs because the volume is only the volume from one particular Broker. Thus most institutional...
If you subscribe futures data on tradingview, you could apply volume profile on futures data instead and trade CFD. However, they use HLC to calculate vwap, so its vwap is inaccurate whether using CFD or futures.
  • #102
  • Jun 11, 2021 4:49am Jun 11, 2021 4:49am
I thought in this thread, people who use ICT order block THEORY - again "THEORY" as the title said - and those who interested in it supposed to discuss and trading with each other using it. Turn out bunch of anti trader are trying to discredit it.
i don't like Wyckoff, and whether his Composite man approach is true or wrong, and yes there are both successful and failure people using Wyckoff, i don't come in a Wyckoff group in order to discrediting him.

Just a few words!
  • #103
  • Jun 11, 2021 4:50am Jun 11, 2021 4:50am
Quoting zkchyo
{quote} Great post. How do you apply volume profile on forex market? Do you use futures volume instead or you trust broker data?

if you trade demo it does not matter
You have to pay for future data
  • #104
  • Jun 12, 2021 4:50am Jun 12, 2021 4:50am
Quoting alps99
I thought in this thread, people who use ICT order block THEORY - again "THEORY" as the title said - and those who interested in it supposed to discuss and trading with each other using it. Turn out bunch of anti trader are trying to discredit it. i don't like Wyckoff, and whether his Composite man approach is true or wrong, and yes there are both successful and failure people using Wyckoff, i don't come in a Wyckoff group in order to discrediting him. Just a few words!
There is nothing to discredit. Nothing is new but different names. When price comes to a demand zone and I use price pattern on lower time-frame to refine my entry, it's the same as what you'll do when you say price comes to an order block and you use lower time-frame order block to refine your entry. Your lower time-frame order block is just my lower time-frame engulfing candle or pin bar. Or lonebladeRGC might say it's an exhaustion and price will return to VA and hit VPOC. What's so different? If I rename this lower time-frame refinement technique as ping pong reflection zone, does it make any difference? It's still all about order flow. If you read it right, market timing technique could do nothing more than giving you an entry point. If you read it wrong, any market timing technique won't make you right.
  • #105
  • Jun 12, 2021 7:42am Jun 12, 2021 7:42am
Quoting zkchyo
{quote} If you subscribe futures data on tradingview, you could apply volume profile on futures data instead and trade CFD. However, they use HLC to calculate vwap, so its vwap is inaccurate whether using CFD or futures.
Yes indeed. One thing I value about the volume profile on tradingview is they have this feature called DPOC (Developing POC) which is a good heads up of where the market is trying to build value when you see the DPOC shifting upwards or downwards. It is similar to vwap but DPOC does the same thing.
  • #106
  • Jun 12, 2021 9:30am Jun 12, 2021 9:30am
Quoting lonebladeRGC
{quote} Yes indeed. One thing I value about the volume profile on tradingview is they have this feature called DPOC (Developing POC) which is a good heads up of where the market is trying to build value when you see the DPOC shifting upwards or downwards. It is similar to vwap but DPOC does the same thing.
I didn't notice that. Thanks. I'll give it a try.
  • #107
  • Edited 12:39pm Jun 13, 2021 10:46am | Edited 12:39pm
Quoting zkchyo
{quote} There is nothing to discredit. Nothing is new but different names. When price comes to a demand zone and I use price pattern on lower time-frame to refine my entry, it's the same as what you'll do when you say price comes to an order block and you use lower time-frame order block to refine your entry. Your lower time-frame order block is just my lower time-frame engulfing candle or pin bar. Or lonebladeRGC might say it's an exhaustion and price will return to VA and hit VPOC. What's so different? If I rename this lower time-frame refinement...
You don't understand the idea of ICT if you just try to fit it in the S&D concept.
OK, by my understanding of S&D, it's basically the imbalance between supply and demand that caused price rally aggressively from a base, right? And when it comeback to the S&D zone, the imbalance/leftover unfilled order will push price back up.

Well ICT views the market in different way. Somehow ICTers view it as smart money drives market, and then trade with them. It's bigger hedge funds hunt small hedge funds, killer whale hunts sharks, etc. Now like Wyckoff, those concept is not neccessary true in reality, i consider it as a way to approach market analysis.

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Order block theory said below the open of Bullish OB is smart money buying. Of course the manipulation is smart money sell in order to push price below old swing low. That's why ICT focus on the open and the high level of a bullish OB. Smart money will protect the long, or add more long or mitigate their short.

Directional bias can be seen by watching reaction of price. For example if price wants to go higher, bullish OB level (high, open of down close candle) will be very sensitive. Price come back down, touch the level and shoot up in no time, express the willingness of smart money
  • #108
  • Jun 13, 2021 1:54pm Jun 13, 2021 1:54pm
Quoting alps99
{quote} You don't understand the idea of ICT if you just try to fit it in the S&D concept. OK, by my understanding of S&D, it's basically the imbalance between supply and demand that caused price rally aggressively from a base, right? And when it comeback to the S&D zone, the imbalance/leftover unfilled order will push price back up. Well ICT views the market in different way. Somehow ICTers view it as smart money drives market, and then trade with them. It's bigger hedge funds hunt small hedge funds, killer whale hunts sharks, etc. Now like Wyckoff,...

Ridiculous

It is exactly the same as trading supply and demand properly, it is used as a new marketing technique making new traders think this is some kind of amazing new trading style which is bullshit

The market is "Supply and Demand" and if you trade it properly, you would trade the retracements to only the strong moves of price away from accumilation/distribution or as everyone now wants to call it an "Orderblock"

So if you were to trade supply and demand properly then it works out exactly the same

Oh ye, ill be waiting for the replies "You obviously do not understand orderblocks"
  • #109
  • Jun 13, 2021 3:59pm Jun 13, 2021 3:59pm
Quoting orderblock
{image}
How should i know what will be the price direction? if i have OB top and bottom as well?wher does the price go to? down or up if i have in both directio OB ?
  • #110
  • Jun 13, 2021 8:54pm Jun 13, 2021 8:54pm
Quoting Wags
{quote} Ridiculous It is exactly the same as trading supply and demand properly, it is used as a new marketing technique making new traders think this is some kind of amazing new trading style which is bullshit The market is "Supply and Demand" and if you trade it properly, you would trade the retracements to only the strong moves of price away from accumilation/distribution or as everyone now wants to call it an "Orderblock" So if you were to trade supply and demand properly then it works out exactly the same Oh ye, ill be waiting for the replies...
Yeah, it exactly same as S&D. You don't need to believe if you don't want to. I don't need to convince you either.
Those are my thought about the differences, period.

Come to order block threat and claim abc is the same with xyz doesn't help.
  • #111
  • Jun 13, 2021 10:16pm Jun 13, 2021 10:16pm
Quoting alps99
{quote} You don't understand the idea of ICT if you just try to fit it in the S&D concept. OK, by my understanding of S&D, it's basically the imbalance between supply and demand that caused price rally aggressively from a base, right? And when it comeback to the S&D zone, the imbalance/leftover unfilled order will push price back up. Well ICT views the market in different way. Somehow ICTers view it as smart money drives market, and then trade with them. It's bigger hedge funds hunt small hedge funds, killer whale hunts sharks, etc. Now like Wyckoff,...
I do know what ICTers are doing and "Smart money" methodology, since so many materials are out there. However, that's not the reason why order block works. It's not whales fight or institutional traders sabotage retail traders. Those whales kill sharks arguments are just conspiracies. The reason why S.A.D. works is the same as OB. It's all about algorithmic executions. I really suggest traders look into algorithmic trading (not systematic trading). When you understand what algorithms are doing, you will have a big edge over other traders and see all those charts with a more accurate mindset.
  • #112
  • Jun 13, 2021 11:41pm Jun 13, 2021 11:41pm
Quoting Tylerz
{quote} How should i know what will be the price direction? if i have OB top and bottom as well?wher does the price go to? down or up if i have in both directio OB ?
You should be using a bias of the higher daily or weekly time frames to determine if you want to be a buyer or seller. You cannot trade every order block you see, that is not how it works and not the premise of a good trader to think you can trade every up and down move.

If you go to ICT youtube channel Scout Sniper Basic field guide Vol 4. at about the 1 hour 43 min mark is where he first discusses order blocks. But if you just view one excerpt without knowing the basics, of what he speak of before its useless info to you.

My advice is to go to the playlist channel and watch these in order:
1. Trading plan development Series
2. Scout Sniper Basic field guide series
3. W.E.N.T Series

Yes its long videos, but it's free information but nobody wants to do the work. Forex is not a get rich quick!
Stop thinking like a retail trader
Forextrinitrader3.0 Profit This Month: na
  • #113
  • Jun 13, 2021 11:46pm Jun 13, 2021 11:46pm
Quoting Wags
{quote} Ridiculous It is exactly the same as trading supply and demand properly, it is used as a new marketing technique making new traders think this is some kind of amazing new trading style which is bullshit The market is "Supply and Demand" and if you trade it properly, you would trade the retracements to only the strong moves of price away from accumilation/distribution or as everyone now wants to call it an "Orderblock" So if you were to trade supply and demand properly then it works out exactly the same Oh ye, ill be waiting for the replies...
Did not think this was a debate forum but if you wish, please post some charts on how supply and demand triggers the entry and exists of your trading.
Stop thinking like a retail trader
Forextrinitrader3.0 Profit This Month: na
  • #114
  • Jun 14, 2021 12:59am Jun 14, 2021 12:59am
Quoting forextrini1
{quote} Did not think this was a debate forum but if you wish, please post some charts on how supply and demand triggers the entry and exists of your trading.

Your right i shouldnt really of posted that, good luck trading this week
  • #115
  • Jun 14, 2021 3:26pm Jun 14, 2021 3:26pm
Quoting forextrini1
{quote} You should be using a bias of the higher daily or weekly time frames to determine if you want to be a buyer or seller. You cannot trade every order block you see, that is not how it works and not the premise of a good trader to think you can trade every up and down move. If you go to ICT youtube channel Scout Sniper Basic field guide Vol 4. at about the 1 hour 43 min mark is where he first discusses order blocks. But if you just view one excerpt without knowing the basics, of what he speak of before its useless info to you. My advice is...

I will check these videos thx..i have seen a guy who used this trading style very profitable way...i use other strategy
..i would like mix my strategy with other technic.
I have downloaded a pdf about smc.and BO.
But no problem i belive in the work, this is as well my problem...because because of it there is a mental problem i can accept very hard that we can earn big money with the forex/ stock without big work...

do you use this system?
  • #116
  • Jun 15, 2021 8:18am Jun 15, 2021 8:18am
Yes but I am still new to the concepts. But even without following this method if you adopt the money management strategies found in the trading plan development series, I think just about any one can have success. One needs to be patient and disciplined with what ever system they choose.
Stop thinking like a retail trader
Forextrinitrader3.0 Profit This Month: na
  • #117
  • Jun 15, 2021 11:54am Jun 15, 2021 11:54am
Missed this trade this morning but here's an example of what I look for. Your buy would be at the retracement down when everyone else in retail thinks its going down further, however there is a daily support there, in addition to an order block on the 4 hour chart. BUY at Fib retracement 62-79% around 1.2103 stoploss would be at 1.2081 tradesize would limit your stop losses to 2% of your account balance. So if you trading with a $2000 account you lot size should be no larger to allow for a stoploss of $40.00 that would be about 30 pips. Take profit would be around 1.2170 because there is resistance just above that, so 65 pips. Of course this is just hypothetical example because I did not actually take this trade. Waiting for a deeper retracement if possible.
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Stop thinking like a retail trader
Forextrinitrader3.0 Profit This Month: na
  • #118
  • Jun 21, 2021 2:06pm Jun 21, 2021 2:06pm
[quote=1greyfox;13418168]
Quoting orderblock
{quote} Hi orderblock. If I understand you correctly, you feel it is alright to post copyrighted material because someone else posted it somewhere else first? Strange world we are living in these days.
I can not seem to find any proof that this is copyrighted material in any US or European registers, could you link or refer to the public information if this is true
  • #119
  • Edited 9:54am Jun 25, 2021 4:42am | Edited 9:54am
Quoting 1greyfox
{quote} Hi NateBeruk I don't have any evidence that ICT isn't a legit teacher. It will take you many hours of going through the playlists on his channel. You may have to listen to them several times before you extract the meat of each video. Don't expect to be able to watch them once and have a full understanding of the concepts. If you don't take notes while watching them, you are wasting your time. I use some of the information that I learned from the free content in my daily trading, The OTE is very good when you get the direction correct during...
That is the point.

This system is too complex to be understood unless you spend a few years studying it. I do not even try to argue with neophytes about it. I think that mostly every person that has been introduced to it has already passed through a lot in trading before, being mature in general; so we do not lose our time trying to prove anything.

@orderblock, just ignore everyone and focus in yourself. Be warned that if you decide to learn this stuff, the odds are against you. I know very few people that have completed the process. Not because the style is not good, but because trading is too hard and most people do not succeed at it even if gone under private mentorship. The odds are very low.

Price levels and market structure are important, but time is more important though. Just follow the market order-flow and try to sell from premium and buy at discount areas at key time intervals. As power of three evolves and new structures are printed in lower scales, while prices reach higher-timeframe liquidity pools, you can study these scenarios and take one or two setups as your own signatures.

OTE is just a simplification of a reversal situation in which you want to either join the market in the opposite direction price is moving. OTE exists because premium lies above 50% and discount below 50% as well, and you want to be a seller from above and a buyer from below while 99% of the non-informed money does the opposite and pays to you.

There are many templates you can adpot, to such an extent that it is impossible to digest it in less than 5 or 10 years, so just stick to one or two scenarios and master them.

And here you have a gift you will understand after a year or so. My first trade this morning. It is unimportant the specific liquidity areas shown on my chart. The combinations are unlimited and I have only highlighted a few of them, and let hidden the vast majority of the existing areas and structures. The important lesson is to frame your decision within a set of premium and discount levels of your choice and act upon it.

The second example is a continuation trade, instead of a reversal one, taken also today. In this case an 1:1 trade. I have also marked the main areas of interest for you to study it. It is always up to you deciding how much risk you are taking in terms of range expansion. 1:1, 1:2, 1:3... vs your balance at risk (0.1%, 0.25%..., 1%...,5%..). There is no a single approach.
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  • #120
  • Edited 8:15pm Jul 8, 2021 8:00pm | Edited 8:15pm
ICT recommends using 2% or your balance for a stop loss for those new to trading. Together with that you want your lot size to give you about a 30 pip stop for newbies. That means your 30 pip SL SHOULD NOT be more than 2% of your account balance. This is critical to growing your account. I use a larger lot size but still keep the SL at 2% no matter what, keep in mind that doing this will make you SL pips smaller and more likely to get hit so your entries have to be well timed. The problem with learning this is new traders do not want to take the time to demo or at least back test. I do both, but then again I've been on and off trading for 10 years.

Prime example...The EUR/ USD hit a Daily and Weekly bullish orderblock this morning (Its the last bearish candle stick before that daily big move up- wait for the retracement then buy if an OTE presents itself). Those who did not buy were left bewildered...as usual.

The best way to learn this is to avoid other traders, even myself. I find they compel me to get back to thinking like a retail trader when you should be thinking the opposite...just practice in a bubble on your own and avoid trading forums about this strategy and that strategy. You will get it.

EDIT: also notice the US employment news had no effect on this, it just confirmed the news was going to be bad anyways...think these numbers are not manipulated? Think again! Watch the ICT Sniper Series on youtube.
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Stop thinking like a retail trader
Forextrinitrader3.0 Profit This Month: na
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