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The brutal truth of day trading

  • #1,041
  • Jun 2, 2021 2:52am Jun 2, 2021 2:52am
Quoting asalami23
{quote} Hi RickM I really like enjoying reading your post which i feel is very simple rules to follow in trading but i can't get full on it. I want to be a consistent profitable trader. Could you please share something like * Which websites to follow * What information to look before placing orders * And where do you get the volumes/Lot information where large orders are placed like you have posted in many of your posts. * On which strategy to work on. I may miss many more things which i should have asked but if you can also suggest or answers it...
Hi asalami

I follow no websites, don't look at price, don't read finanical analyst's - I just focus on liquidity levels and study recent volume data on futures markets.

Manipulation is the art of making money so first its good to learn how they create money.

Step 1 - Start by understanding their actions

Churning
Abusive squeeze
Advancing the Bid
Front running
Layering
Market bashing
Pump and dump
Trash and cash
Ramping
Wash Trade
Lure and Squeeze
Quote stuffing
Cross market manipulation
Sproofing
Order blocking
Price fixing
Cornering the Market
Running Stops
Painting the tape
Phishing
Smoking
Stop loss jamming
Ping Orders
Insider Trading
Pools
Iceberg Orders
Market maker tree shake

Come on Guys, what did I miss

Step 2 - Open up a futures platform with a footprint chart and a DOM - see you at Christmas
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #1,042
  • Jun 2, 2021 9:43am Jun 2, 2021 9:43am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi asalami I follow no websites, don't look at price, don't read finanical analyst's - I just focus on liquidity levels and study recent volume data on futures markets. Manipulation is the art of making money so first its good to learn how they create money. Step 1 - Start by understanding their actions Churning Abusive squeeze Advancing the Bid Front running Layering Market bashing Pump and dump Trash and cash Ramping Wash Trade Lure and Squeeze Quote stuffing Cross market manipulation Sproofing Order blocking Price fixing Cornering the...
Lol, about 6 months ahead of the pack sounds about legit

And maybe we could also add something like: "quantitative HF market-making" (taking both sides of the spread with limit orders only).

Cheers!
  • #1,043
  • Jun 2, 2021 10:09am Jun 2, 2021 10:09am
Here are a few more brutal truths about day trading, which were inspired by some comments I just read here.
1. Forex is not a business. It is a tool (yes, there are business organizations that manage the forex technology, but that is not what we are talking about here). There are businesses that use this tool we call the forex, and it is a very good idea to understand as much as possible about what those business do, why they do the things that they do, etc. I have said, repeatedly, that retail traders should learn as much as possible about the main business that uses the forex, namely, those functions within banks that utilize the forex. The day trading part in this is, imho, pretty simple: as a retail trader, you are "hitching a ride" on the PA or volume/liquidity analysis that you perform, that the bankers are creating. You do this by analyzing the data that is being displayed on a computer screen, or the news you are reading, again on a computer screen, with your knowledge of the forex market and its participants, ever present in your mind. This is how you day trade, with your mind and the tools of day trading. And day trading is primarily about one this: managing risk.
2. You are a retail forex trader, or at least you are trying to be one. You do not have the "power" to fill your own order, nor can you influence or force anyone to fill your order. Comments along these lines are dismissive to retail forex traders, and are meant to make you feel less that you really are. Blinding flash of the obvious: big banks are much more powerful that you! Who cares? Ignore this bullshit.
3. As a retail forex trader, you are on the outside of the actual, real world activities that are going on in banks, at hedge funds, etc. You will always to an outsider. To succeed, you need to find some aspect of forex activities that you can master, and once done, exploit the hell out of your mastery, to the best of your abilities, while managing the risks of trading in a market where you will never have perfect information about the intentions of the real forex participants. Therefore, everything you deal with, is an afterthought. You are never ahead of the game. Whether its data or volume, it will always to the afterthought. That is the nature of day trading the forex. Anyone who is dismissive of this fact, or anyone who might imply that you can legally get ahead of "afterthought" is an idiot, a liar, and likely as no real experience successfully trading the forex. Ignore their bullshit, too.

Okay, this addresses the most egregious bullshit that has been recently posted here by a rambling idiot. Everyone keep a positive attitude and keep pushing forward.
  • #1,044
  • Jun 2, 2021 10:37am Jun 2, 2021 10:37am
Quoting GEfx
Here are a few more brutal truths about day trading, which were inspired by some comments I just read here. 1. Forex is not a business. It is a tool (yes, there are business organizations that manage the forex technology, but that is not what we are talking about here). There are businesses that use this tool we call the forex, and it is a very good idea to understand as much as possible about what those business do, why they do the things that they do, etc. I have said, repeatedly, that retail traders should learn as much as possible about the...
- BRUTALLY TRUE; we can only hope to ride/follow the BBoys
  • #1,045
  • Jun 2, 2021 11:47am Jun 2, 2021 11:47am
Quoting GEfx
And day trading is primarily about one this: managing risk.
Quoting GEfx
To succeed, you need to find some aspect of forex activities that you can master, and once done, exploit the hell out of your mastery, to the best of your abilities, while managing the risks of trading in a market
Memorized!
Observer effect
  • #1,046
  • Edited 12:39pm Jun 2, 2021 12:24pm | Edited 12:39pm
Quoting Viktory
You would need TONS of daily real-time information, with strong computing power and a "data-mining" approach.

Can Anyone Please Help Me With Some Recent FX Futures Data For Testing Purposes

The Principle:
Don't Guess, Test

The purpose :
I want to test the theory about correlation between spot forex and fx futures (price and volume) that has been discussed recently on this thread. I have not been able to find any hard evidence anywhere to confirm this claim.

Why :
Because opinions are not necessarily correct. The numbers, provided they are properly computed and understood don't lie. It would be very helpful for me and nice for anyone else interested in order flow to have the correct information on which to make informed decisions should they wish to do so. I am not disputing what has been said in any way. I just want proof.

Qualifications and Experience:
I have been doing this sort of work for over 50 years. Yes I am an "Old Fart" I turn 73 in a couple of months time. My body may be falling to bits but my mind still works fine.

What is needed:
3 days of recent FX futures "tick" data for say AUD, JPY, EUR, GBP, CHF. The file format can be .txt or .csv. Each file is unlikely to be more than about 250K in size.

A number of people on this forum thread have implied that they are using FX futures data to trade. Most trading platforms will enable you to capture and save this data to a file so it shouldn't involve more than a few minutes work for someone who knows their trading platform to provide this data.

Outcome:
A few days after I get the data I will post the results on this thread of this forum in a format that can easily be understood. (Pretty pictures). I will also post my computational scripts (I mostly use "R" these days for this sort of thing) together with the zipped data. Anyone who wants to will be able to check my work and verify the results.

If anyone wants to communicate with me outside of this forum please PM me.

Regards
Tim
Don't Guess Test
  • #1,047
  • Jun 3, 2021 12:02am Jun 3, 2021 12:02am
[quote=TraderTim125;13565151]{quote} /quote]

I am also interested to get this data for testing purposes (possibly a similar exercise). I have downloaded some from Turtle Trader (https://www.turtletrader.com/hpd/) and I am not sure if this is reliable.
  • #1,048
  • Jun 3, 2021 3:01am Jun 3, 2021 3:01am
Quoting TraderTim125
{quote} Can Anyone Please Help Me With Some Recent FX Futures Data For Testing Purposes The Principle: Don't Guess, Test The purpose : I want to test the theory about correlation between spot forex and fx futures (price and volume) that has been discussed recently on this thread. I have not been able to find any hard evidence anywhere to confirm this claim. Why : Because opinions are not necessarily correct. The numbers, provided they are properly computed and understood don't lie. It would be very helpful for me and nice for anyone else interested...
Here you go.
GBP Futures(5/30-6/2)
Attached File(s)
File Type: zip 6B 06-21.Last.zip   356 KB | 302 downloads
  • #1,049
  • Jun 3, 2021 5:59am Jun 3, 2021 5:59am
Quoting giselle1723
{quote} Here you go. GBP Futures(5/30-6/2) {file}
Thanks for going to the trouble of posting this data. Unfortunately that data provided has date stamps for each tick but no time stamp which makes it impossible to accurately synchronise it with the equivalent fx spot data. Anything I could do with this data, such as dividing it into a number of equal sections, would only be very approximate. I can see visually that the futures price throughout the day appears to be approximately correlated with the spot price as one would expert but the volumes don't appear to be correlated much at all. This however is not much better than a guess. What I was hoping to achieve was some accurate measurements.

Regards
Tim
Don't Guess Test
  • #1,050
  • Jun 3, 2021 6:01am Jun 3, 2021 6:01am
Quoting giselle1723
{quote} Here you go. GBP Futures(5/30-6/2) {file}
Thanks for the information. I had a look at this data. It is very old (around 20 years) and is only day data, not intraday which we want to examine.
Regards
Tim
Don't Guess Test
  • #1,051
  • Jun 3, 2021 6:39am Jun 3, 2021 6:39am
Quoting TraderTim125
{quote} Thanks for the information. I had a look at this data. It is very old (around 20 years) and is only day data, not intraday which we want to examine. Regards Tim
Really? I just downloaded the historical data from Ninjatrader.
How about this one?
Attached File(s)
File Type: zip 6B 06-21.Ask.zip   1.0 MB | 339 downloads
File Type: zip 6B 06-21.Bid.zip   1.0 MB | 333 downloads
  • #1,053
  • Jun 3, 2021 8:58am Jun 3, 2021 8:58am
Quoting TraderTim125
Unfortunately that data provided has date stamps for each tick but no time stamp

[quote giselle1723
Really? I just downloaded the historical data from Ninjatrader.
How about this one
My Apologies - All FX Data Is Good

The problem was with my OpenOffice look-a-like of Excel which wasn't happy with the large file sizes. Data from both you guys is fine. Thank you.
It looks like both sets of data came from Ninja Trader with slightly different selection options but both are OK and it is good to be able to cross check the data sources. I will be able to do something with this.

The data has no headers but I was able to figure it out except for column "C" circled in red. It looks to me like some sort of contract number. If it is possible to confirm what this column is it would be good. Otherwise I will just ignore it as I have already identified what I actually need.
Attached Image


Regards
Tim
Don't Guess Test
  • #1,054
  • Jun 3, 2021 10:34am Jun 3, 2021 10:34am
Quoting TraderTim125
{quote} My Apologies - All FX Data Is Good The problem was with my OpenOffice look-a-like of Excel which wasn't happy with the large file sizes. Data from both you guys is fine. Thank you. It looks like both sets of data came from Ninja Trader with slightly different selection options but both are OK and it is good to be able to cross check the data sources. I will be able to do something with this. The data has no headers but I was able to figure it out except for column "C" circled in red. It looks to me like some sort of contract number. If it...
Column E is Bid and F is Last.
  • #1,055
  • Jun 3, 2021 10:05pm Jun 3, 2021 10:05pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
OK, let's give it a try then simnz ........ If someone really wants to understand a decent way to day trade, then learn the real life difference between constructive feedback vs negative criticism. These two elements are worlds apart and so too is the interpretation-misinterpretation aspect of thinking that goes into proper day trading. If I say stupid, what emotions does that raise? If I say buy NOW, what emotions does that raise? If I was to say/point out, that the lovely 89% Win Strike Rate strategy you work with all the time and assume will...
You are asking right questions but I am a wrong person to respond.

A person who has been indoctrinated to accept people as they are, including those who many call "fools" and and give them a feeling of satisfaction that I am not as smart as they were led to believe. They have no ill-feelings for me. It was this attitude of mine that developed over a time of period and attained maturity level when I started as a cub crime reporter. As one who has written a number of real crime stories, nothing is black or white, so I avoid judging them. But I must admit when I or the other party harbour expectations, it does not work that good.

I am basically a product of fiction books.

For me there exist three worlds.

One where 2000 fiction books have let me experience a life full of excitement, crime, love and hate and around 40 writers act as my shadows or Alladins who appear from time to time without me rubbing any lamp or seeking their help.
The Second world is of my childhood and the teen days spent in a neighbourhood where the offer of help (except money-related) was extended by middle-aged bureaucrats, sportsmen, teachers, writers, poets and journalists . No businessman lived in that neighbourhood. I assumed that to be a normal one.
Third world is related to Commercial or money-making life. My father was a private medical practitioner. By observing him as a part-time 12-year old clinic assistant
I learned how money can be made by collecting drops of water into a glass.
All three worlds co-exist without giving me any trouble at all.

I now feel perhaps it is my destiny and that invisible forces are guiding me in my information hunts and commercial ventures as well.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #1,056
  • Jun 4, 2021 12:08am Jun 4, 2021 12:08am
Some people are just small minded and only think what is true is what they already and only know.

Some people say bullshit and some say liar. While some say day trading is "this" or "that".

Silly people with less experience and/or competency need not run their mouth. Retreat and think about who you model after.

The simple basic "brutal" truth is most people think small things and judge in very oversized ways.

Poor small minded people.

Life does not be quiet so why would I?

I would rather learn where I can gather my thoughts and pay attention to what is needed.

Poor silly frustrated people.

Trading is a self starter activity. Do you hear that? No one is coming to "save" you.

Of course trading and forex is about business, but the narrative people "swallow while on their knees" is not the only thing happening. Narrow minded people in trading = narrow minded in real life and vice versa.

All of this is based on years and years of observation and nothing else. No opinions and no judgment. Only someone who is truthfully honest with themself can see the importance of this.

Poorly educated people love stories and welcome their warm embrace. The peer group story is usually wrong. Fact check - go look at history for real life verification.

Silly shallow thinking people.

If you want to learn how to trade properly DO NOT try and learn from me, or RickM, GEfx or any other here. Why not? Our banter is just that, banter. It really depends on how much horse shit you are willing to swallow that will eventually lead you to water to finally drink and be satisfied with what you have learned and can do for yourself.

But remember - as above so below. So while the "know-a-lots" on this site and in this world talk about this and that, there's always someone who knows you can't argue with the ignorant who just want to argue and cannot learn.

If you haven't learned how to think and operate on your own and for yourself, then you need to do this first.

Personally, I wouldn't trust basically anyone here with my money and THIS has been ONE determining factor that has never let me down when finding out who and what a person is..... behind all the banter and posturing and crap that people go on about.

So as I wrote previously, it is impossible to separate real life from trading. Only insane people lean towards this thinking. And only insane people try and teach what they clearly have a severe lacking in.


Salud.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #1,057
  • Edited 5:13am Jun 4, 2021 3:43am | Edited 5:13am
Peter I can put everything black and white, how about you !

no need to write million lines of bullshit.

Only good thing is about you, is i am going to share something important info for joyny about developing trading strategies. Which may help him or not.
because i am little bit upset your nonsense.
  • #1,058
  • Edited 1:22pm Jun 4, 2021 9:25am | Edited 1:22pm
Peter.
You are mores stupid i can underline, you talk about peoples education like nazi and separating humans different kind of groups.
Jump back to real life. Life richness is knowing all kind of people and see how world works. I respect all people who do things they hands and admire they skills what i dont have. I feel so lucky what i can do, and have free thinking, while all my grandfathers die war against russia, and i can see how it affects
my parents, common people has so much wisdom of life while they struggle get food they table. who removed cotton from you pillow and filled whit your own shit. I can little bit understand situation what was baltic countries and hungary, you talk about emotions, but i think you dont understands nothing about emotions and have lack of that, and only heard about it. You are pure Psychopath.
You cant survive far east or south america with your attitude, stay maggot hole in your home, they wont eat you because your taste is so bad, and your corpse will be hang longer than ramses.

I swear i will break you, read about my post couple years ago when spreadbetter try to do threads and disturb people who have skills , and started crying like a baby, before he was banned and not me. this is nothing what you will face.
pick which one.

Inserted Video


Inserted Video
  • #1,059
  • Jun 4, 2021 8:37pm Jun 4, 2021 8:37pm
I just don't play the same games you do KK. And your posts prove my point. Fake people/adults who obviously find it too uncomfortable talking about meaningful real things that basically relate to everything that we all deal with.

Like me don't like me. Ignore me don't ignore me. Big deal.

Hate or love me. Big deal.

Learn don't learn. Big deal.

You keep your silly songs and away we go.

I say what I mean and mean what I say. Is that clear enough english for you?

Children of the modern day tech revolution. A computer can't do everything for you, despite your efforts for trying to make it do so.

The more a person continues to react the less they think. And you cannot learn when you're just reacting.

So who cares what the opinion of the day is.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #1,060
  • Jun 4, 2021 10:13pm Jun 4, 2021 10:13pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
I just don't play the same games you do KK. And your posts prove my point. Fake people/adults who obviously find it too uncomfortable talking about meaningful real things that basically relate to everything that we all deal with. Like me don't like me. Ignore me don't ignore me. Big deal. Hate or love me. Big deal. Learn don't learn. Big deal. You keep your silly songs and away we go. I say what I mean and mean what I say. Is that clear enough english for you? Children of the modern day tech revolution. A computer can't do everything for you, despite...
Peter, once you posted a strong post in my opinion because it had pictures. The majority of people are visual learners, and you are attacking the problem from one prong out of three possible ones.

Auditory and Kinesthetic are off the table. So all that is really left is visual. Would you care to visually demonstrate some of the ideas that you are trying to put forward? I think it would help move the discussion. Be aware, in my opinion that memes and Venn diagrams may not suffice, because the former can be culturally specific, and the latter require the capacity to read and then interpret the diagram.

I respect what you are trying to do due to some recent events in my real life. Time is a commodity, and we should not expect that it is unlimited. Your posts will be better received if you post pictures of what you mean. You do not need to reveal any detail, nor do you need to hold hands. A naked chart will do, with annotations that you choose to put in place.

Regards
Jim
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
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