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The brutal truth of day trading

  • #1,021
  • Jun 1, 2021 12:43am Jun 1, 2021 12:43am
Quoting RickM
I took only about 30 trades last night due to the bank holiday’s with the average trading period about 30 seconds. I had 28 winners, 2 losses but every liquidity imbalance that was present on FX Futures presented itself on Spot FX And yet the big side of town try’s to hide this fact. Cheers
Hi Rick
I just noticed this post. I would love to see some screenshots of this.

Also, your average trade duration is way faster than mine. I am wondering how these correlations hold out over much longer time frames.

Regards
Tim
Don't Guess Test
  • #1,022
  • Jun 1, 2021 1:16am Jun 1, 2021 1:16am
Quoting peterhenders
{quote} people still trade manually because they have an edge, they know how. EA's will not make you any money,
Hi Peter,

What I am seeing a fair bit of these days is a number of very successful traders using a combination of Automation (EA's) to minimize tedious and time consuming trading functions together with manual input to direct or assist in the decision making processes. State of the art Artificial Intelligence(AI) is also being increasingly used to good effect. All this makes a lot of sense to me. In my experience, manual trading can be incredibly tedious and time consuming.

I posted an article on this subject a short while ago on this thread but there seemed to be very little interest. One of the issues that I have observed is that many "techies" don't really know how to trade and see trading only in terms of strategies, rules and indicators. Many traders on the other hand have pretty poor maths and programming skills and really struggle to describe what they do in a language that makes logical sense and can be interpreted and programmed into a computer.

Collaborations between people of different mindsets would seem to be the obvious answer to this dilemma. In my experience however they can be very difficult to arrange and manage.

Regards
Tim
Don't Guess Test
  • #1,023
  • Jun 1, 2021 1:31am Jun 1, 2021 1:31am
Hi TraderTim125.

Quoting TraderTim125
I did discover that one of the larger brokers that I already have an account with claims to offer DOM for spot FX on MT5 and CTrader platforms. I will talk to my account manager and report back in case anyone else is interested.
any FX broker's volume (and even from its aggregated liquidity providers' ECN) ≠ futures contracts or central/interbank FX volume

Quoting TraderTim125
I have also been looking at a number of commercial offerings for Cumulative Delta Volume (CDV). It looks to me like many of them use 1 minute data and not tick data to generate their CDV offerings. I tried this myself at one stage and found that most of the "intelligence" from the signal was lost using 1 minute data. IMO it is essential to use tick data even though it is a lot less convenient because of the lack of stored tick history on the MetaTrader platform and probably most others. It seems that not all CDV's are equal.
tick data ≠ real readable/complete/reliable volume

Quoting TraderTim125
To be honest Rick, without screenshots or videos I find it a bit hard to follow what you are saying about your trading.
Rick has also posted screenshots with explanations...

Regards.
  • #1,024
  • Jun 1, 2021 7:32am Jun 1, 2021 7:32am
Quote
Have people ever asked what the BROKER is doing at these times?

I cannot read further unless someone tells the difference between broker and Market maker.

Ok, I lied.

Quote
demand to be attended to

You know, it took me sometime to understand this because I cannot digest what positions other people will take when this "demand" is being made.
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
  • #1,025
  • Jun 1, 2021 7:53am Jun 1, 2021 7:53am
Quoting PeterCaleb
_ + B + _ + _ + _ = ?
What would someone with less money do, except getting more money?
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
  • #1,026
  • Jun 1, 2021 9:16am Jun 1, 2021 9:16am
Quoting PeterCaleb
Silly people adding conjecture to conjecture. L
does not sounds good, but how it sounds has no meaning ... only important meaning is, am I silly?
  • #1,027
  • Jun 1, 2021 9:58am Jun 1, 2021 9:58am
Quoting Viktory
Any FX broker's volume (and even from its aggregated liquidity providers' ECN) ≠ futures contracts or central/interbank FX volume

tick data ≠ real readable/complete/reliable volume
I totally agree with you. What you say is unquestionably correct but what I have been talking about and trying to establish are correlations. Are you able to help resolve any of these questions/issues by supplying valid FX Futures data that I could test?

Quote
Rick has also posted screenshots with explanations...

I was referring to a specific trade situation that occurred yesterday and/or screenshots that demonstrate the Fx/spot correlations that Rick recently referred to. If there are existing screen shots to these I would appreciate it if you could provide me with reference numbers to those posts.

Regards
Tim
Don't Guess Test
  • #1,028
  • Jun 1, 2021 12:39pm Jun 1, 2021 12:39pm
RickM, 30 trades in a day is amazing. I'm lucky to do 30 in a week. But we're focused on complete different time frames, so maybe that difference should be expected. I read your brief exchange with TraderTim, which inspired me to research my own questions about forex volume and liquidity data and it's sources. It was a short-lived inspiration.

I started, and ended, my research with a call to the man who is the design engineer and business analyst for the charting software I use (he is also the owner of the company). I started by telling him what I knew about how forex volume is depicted in the charts, and he then spent a half hour talking about how the charts are representing volume data. In a nut shell, we are interested in the one hour and four hour view of volume, which, coincidently, is the view that all date is presented in our charts. The notion of trading off a one minute or lower chart/data source is pretty much antithetical to our approach. But it's still pretty cool that RickM has figured out a way to trade it.

I don't envy TraderTim's efforts to find an affordable source of data. On the one hand, nothing of value is free, assuming there is truth in the old adage, "you get what you pay for." At the same time, paying for something doesn't guarantee it has any value. Good luck I your search.
  • #1,029
  • Jun 1, 2021 8:33pm Jun 1, 2021 8:33pm
First up, day trading is about business and the goings on of business, not about volume or data on a digitized computer screen.

Unfortunately, most people don't have a "business" background. So what's option 2? Learn what you can about business and the business world. Listen, it's pretty obvious that many people have run out of things to talk about that actually have any impact on real life trading (That I have even been accused of recently which is rather hilarious!)..... at least from what I see. Most people don't think before they speak so there's another problem. Or they want to make a jackass out of themself or be a sycophant or blind follower of someone else.

Next, to find out all you need about your broker is simple - open 2 different live accounts and deposit a little money, maybe $250 in each. Then find a trade setup you like and/or are good at spotting and place a 1K pending stop order on a price level (buy or sell) then place an opposing 1K pending limit order either on the same price or just beyond the first pending order. Now, if you know anything about the markets, how they work and keep moving, you will see that by doing this, the stop order gets activated and filled and by having the limit order at the same price or a little beyond, it gives you a high probability of one filling the other on its own. Seeing as you KNOW the process of how orders are filled, generally, it's a good place to start to observe if your broker is internalizing certain aspects of the process.

Volume is an after effect as are time frames and the academic knowledge of liquidity providers, liquidity and the like. I am sorry but without going outside the sphere of whatever you assume you think is "all you need to know", it is empirically impossible to succeed at learning better and stronger ways to understand your chosen market and therefore how to trader more productively.

Strong participants do not wait to get filled. That is what "retailers" are told to do. Why? I guess it makes a person easy prey. Perhaps?!

A vanilla trader thinks in black and white terms. But anyone who has been around the block enough times, realizes they need to make their own "luck".

Yes there's "lots" of details I could discuss here, but really, truly, most people cannot even control their attitude to be teachable.

If you cannot even fulfill step one then why share anything else?

Apparently, the unsuccessful and mildly successful have the answers.

If you play "their game" you've lost already.

Just some words of wisdom from a trader. Learn or don't learn.

If you can't think for yourself then none of this will make sense and you will see no value in it. That's the difference between real knowledge and mental poverty.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #1,030
  • Jun 1, 2021 9:20pm Jun 1, 2021 9:20pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
First up, day trading is about business and the goings on of business, not about volume or data on a digitized computer screen. Unfortunately, most people don't have a "business" background. So what's option 2? Learn what you can about business and the business world. Listen, it's pretty obvious that many people have run out of things to talk about that actually have any impact on real life trading (That I have even been accused of recently which is rather hilarious!)..... at least from what I see. Most people don't think before they speak so there's...
FF houses mostly wannabe amateur coders cut off from the realities of life in their own working environments and are beyond teachable. I know of a few of them having lost entire life savings by putting faith in indicators and EAs to make overnight rich. All of them are in a rush to make money. Yet I would say to you: please share your wisdom.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #1,031
  • Jun 1, 2021 10:26pm Jun 1, 2021 10:26pm
OK, let's give it a try then simnz ........

If someone really wants to understand a decent way to day trade, then learn the real life difference between constructive feedback vs negative criticism. These two elements are worlds apart and so too is the interpretation-misinterpretation aspect of thinking that goes into proper day trading.

If I say stupid, what emotions does that raise?

If I say buy NOW, what emotions does that raise?

If I was to say/point out, that the lovely 89% Win Strike Rate strategy you work with all the time and assume will keep working, is going to start to fail, what thoughts, ideas and emotions does this raise?

Do any questions rise to the surface?

** If you hunt information, this is the path of a stupid person.

Can you distinguish the difference between all of your personal interpretations of that statement?

It's always funny how some people dismiss something before giving any time to its efficacy. Stupid or smart? Juvenile or mature?

Day trading is exactly the same. As is all trading really.

The questions you DON'T ask is why you fail to appreciate lots of very interesting things about day trading and all trading.

There's a few examples of WHY it is far more important to think properly than it is to have a lot of information.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #1,032
  • Jun 1, 2021 11:14pm Jun 1, 2021 11:14pm
If the auction market basis is changed for trading, then yes my way of trading will not work.
I have, by trial and error, understood Rotational way of trade works well with no stress, no pre-analysis of any kind done, not even analyzing the news.
The only requirement is I must know today's news triggers and how they are lined up time wise giving the market makers to make the market wet and dry at their will and confuse traders by constant flow of lagging news (always it is after the event has happened)

If any symbol has 4 events, then the chances of rotational trades happening is bright.
I welcome the sideways and range trending environment.

I have diversified symbols based on their probability of helping me reduce drawdown.
It is the pillar of money management.
Money management can easily be managed on an emergency basis as well by employing options.
8 instruments - 4 instruments have at least 80% negative correlations.
At the same time, I use options particularly in the expiry week of the monthly options.
At other times, I just buy options Call or Put or both. It is like buying lottery tickets.

I have 8 machines working in my factory. I have two workers for each machine. One for spot futures. Second worker for options.
To supervise my factory, my energy is spent observing the machines and workers.
Risk management is on autopilot because of diversification.
I can't afford to work for long term. I have no bank facility. Day trading is good for me. Forever.
I do it all for fun and money is never on the mind. That is another of my big advantage.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #1,033
  • Jun 1, 2021 11:19pm Jun 1, 2021 11:19pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
OK, let's give it a try then simnz ........ If someone really wants to understand a decent way to day trade, then learn the real life difference between constructive feedback vs negative criticism. These two elements are worlds apart and so too is the interpretation-misinterpretation aspect of thinking that goes into proper day trading. If I say stupid, what emotions does that raise? If I say buy NOW, what emotions does that raise? If I was to say/point out, that the lovely 89% Win Strike Rate strategy you work with all the time and assume will...
Peter

I must be stupid because I have no idea what the fuck your’e going on about.

Obviously Simnz’s does, maybe he can make it clearer for me and everyone else.

So Peter please don’t rely to this post, get your lieutenant Simnz’s to speak to me very slowly and in simple language that you would use to a child so I can understand.

In the meantime, I am going to scalp some liquidity imbalances.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #1,034
  • Jun 2, 2021 12:18am Jun 2, 2021 12:18am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Peter I must be stupid because I have no idea what the fuck your’e going on about. Obviously Simnz’s does, maybe he can make it clearer for me and everyone else. So Peter please don’t rely to this post, get your lieutenant Simnz’s to speak to me very slowly and in simple language that you would use to a child so I can understand. In the meantime, I am going to scalp some liquidity imbalances.


In this situation then, it's an indictment on the education system and each person needs to take further personal responsibility to educate themself. There is seriously, nothing confusing or complex about what I wrote. And I do not need someone else to dumb it down for anyone. How about instead of constantly lowering your standards, RickM, try a different tactic ..... try raising your eyes from your nose to the grind stone and learn something voluntarily rather Life forcing it onto you in situations that are out of your control.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #1,035
  • Jun 2, 2021 12:58am Jun 2, 2021 12:58am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Peter I must be stupid because I have no idea what the fuck your’e going on about. Obviously Simnz’s does, maybe he can make it clearer for me and everyone else. So Peter please don’t rely to this post, get your lieutenant Simnz’s to speak to me very slowly and in simple language that you would use to a child so I can understand. In the meantime, I am going to scalp some liquidity imbalances.
Hi RickM
I really like enjoying reading your post which i feel is very simple rules to follow in trading but i can't get full on it. I want to be a consistent profitable trader.
Could you please share something like
* Which websites to follow
* What information to look before placing orders
* And where do you get the volumes/Lot information where large orders are placed like you have posted in many of your posts.
* On which strategy to work on.

I may miss many more things which i should have asked but if you can also suggest or answers it i would really appreciate.
Thank you.
  • #1,036
  • Jun 2, 2021 2:00am Jun 2, 2021 2:00am
For the ballance,

Hi Peter Caleb
I really like enjoying reading your post which i feel is very simple rules to follow in trading but i can't get full on it. I want to be a consistent profitable trader.
Could you please share something like
* Which websites to follow
* What information to look before placing orders
* And where do you get the volumes/Lot information where large orders are placed like you have posted in many of your posts.
* On which strategy to work on.

or maybe these are inappropriate questions?
  • #1,037
  • Jun 2, 2021 2:19am Jun 2, 2021 2:19am
LOL
Very nice
  • #1,038
  • Jun 2, 2021 2:27am Jun 2, 2021 2:27am
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} In this situation then, it's an indictment on the education system and each person needs to take further personal responsibility to educate themself. There is seriously, nothing confusing or complex about what I wrote. And I do not need someone else to dumb it down for anyone. How about instead of constantly lowering your standards, RickM, try a different tactic ..... try raising your eyes from your nose to the grind stone and learn something voluntarily rather Life forcing it onto you in situations that are out of your control. Peter
Peter Pan

QUIET

I asked Simnz to explain your confusing ideas.
Please try and comprehend better next time.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #1,039
  • Jun 2, 2021 2:46am Jun 2, 2021 2:46am
Tim.

Quoting TraderTim125
I totally agree with you. What you say is unquestionably correct but what I have been talking about and trying to establish are correlations. Are you able to help resolve any of these questions/issues by supplying valid FX Futures data that I could test?
I would love to, but I'm afraid I couldn't be of much help right now. You would need TONS of daily real-time information, with strong computing power and a "data-mining" approach.

Quoting TraderTim125
I was referring to a specific trade situation that occurred yesterday and/or screenshots that demonstrate the Fx/spot correlations that Rick recently referred to. If there are existing screen shots to these I would appreciate it if you could provide me with reference numbers to those posts.
Sorry, I'm not aware of that (outside of what I've seen; and I haven't spent much time in FF lately).

Regards.
  • #1,040
  • Jun 2, 2021 2:50am Jun 2, 2021 2:50am
Quoting PeterCaleb
OK, let's give it a try then simnz ........ If someone really wants to understand a decent way to day trade, then learn the real life difference between constructive feedback vs negative criticism. These two elements are worlds apart and so too is the interpretation-misinterpretation aspect of thinking that goes into proper day trading. If I say stupid, what emotions does that raise? If I say buy NOW, what emotions does that raise? If I was to say/point out, that the lovely 89% Win Strike Rate strategy you work with all the time and assume will...
Peter: WHY have you always used a BIGGER font size than the default by 99% of members?
Excuse me, just curious...

EDIT: Lol, I actually wrote-posted this before reading R's latest post XD
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