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The brutal truth of day trading

  • #821
  • May 18, 2021 11:36pm May 18, 2021 11:36pm
Quoting RickM
Data is the following Bid 20 lots Bid 20 lots Ask 20 lot Result bearish move Not sure how some people find data hilarious. If these people had half a brain, they would have said “ All the data is of no help to a trader if they lack the capacity to interpret it” I would give a thumbs up for that. No, perhaps some people should start thinking a bit more. You know the trader who thinks about thinking.


It's not the data that's funny Rick, it's people like you who think you've found the best thing since sliced bread in data and volume.

I'm not in competition with you so I can speak frankly when I say that my main concern is your blind inexperienced followers who don't understand the real world yet try to think as you do and do what you do.

Lots of people who trade with data like you have this idea wedged in your head that it's something it's not.

So yes I think. The way I trade one could do it forever. The way you trade is completely exposed to the whole world and the ever-changing environment of entitlement and the idea that you are more capable than you really are. So congrats on that. And congrats to order books and the next fad and then the next fad after that.

Over the years I have heard LOTS of stories people tell to try and explain the markets and "what happens" but the fad of traders who have never had any real contact with real people above their pay grade, yet somehow they just "know" and express it in a communal fashion. Always fascinating.

Have fun Rick.


Peter.
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #822
  • Edited 12:38am May 19, 2021 12:08am | Edited 12:38am
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} It's not the data that's funny Rick, it's people like you who think you've found the best thing since sliced bread in data and volume. I'm not in competition with you so I can speak frankly when I say that my main concern is your blind inexperienced followers who don't understand the real world yet try to think as you do and do what you do. Lots of people who trade with data like you have this idea wedged in your head that it's something it's not. So yes I think. The way I trade one could do it forever. The way you trade is completely exposed...
Haven’t found anything new Peter, I have been trading with volume for over 20 years.
Futures data has been around since 1710.

Didn’t know you kept up with fashion you sneaky little old dog.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #823
  • May 19, 2021 12:53am May 19, 2021 12:53am
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Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #824
  • May 19, 2021 1:55am May 19, 2021 1:55am
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} past is only indicative.
In my regular business i receive money only based on the past data. I spent hours, did some tasks for clients, they see what i did and based on that past data (hours spent, tasks done) i can send invoice and get money.

Past is fact. Past data is important to get money.

When price broke support/resistance level which is line based on past data then you can make "invoice" and get money from market. Yes some times your "invoice" will be unpaid and you might have to pay yourself. Therefore you need to know probabilities. And this again you get from the past.

In my regular business, I need to know probabilities also - when estimate a new project budget you need to consider probabilities of unforeseen pitfalls. You need to evaluate the difficulties of the project to add some risk % to the budget and time. This comes from past information about past projects which were done previously.

I optimized and backtested 10 years past for support/resistance levels. Get probabilities. Set up EA. And it's now working >18 months. Accordingly to 10 years statistics. See here live/audited results (again past).

My opinion is backed with data - with real trading results. Peter - your opinion is not backed with anything and even you deny the importance of data at all... "just indicative" and you advertise some magic trading style... not based on data. what a deception.

you know... even trading based on astrology for me seems more realistic because it is still based on data and probabilities. but trading based on "thinking right way" (meditating?) - that's something very "interesting"
  • #825
  • May 19, 2021 2:29am May 19, 2021 2:29am
Quoting joyny
{quote} In my regular business i receive money only based on the past data. I spent hours, did some tasks for clients, they see what i did and based on that past data (hours spent, tasks done) i can send invoice and get money. Past is fact. Past data is important to get money. When price broke support/resistance level which is line based on past data then you can make "invoice" and get money from market. Yes some times your "invoice" will be unpaid and you might have to pay yourself. Therefore you need to know probabilities. And this again you get...


joyny,

I am planning on and hoping to go out tomorrow for a picnic. But I don't want to go if it's raining. Can you help me please? But I must tell you I'm not in Ohio USA, I'm not in London UK and I'm not in Dunedin New Zealand, BUT I am on Earth where it is sunny today with a mild breeze with a lovely temperature of a warm 25 degrees celsius. Now, tell me please what the max temperature and weather conditions will be tomorrow.

You couldn't be more wrong.

If you assume you can think without it being tested by something completely out of your control, then what do you really know?

I suggest you go look up a word - context.

Idiots who misquote, cannot read and have no ability to remove head from sphincter really should keep quiet. Maybe go read a book that doesn't come with pictures. Maybe with an average of say, 300 words per page.

I never denied anything. People with more than just a single brain cell can read. Well, maybe not you as it appears, but people nonetheless.

Have fun. Don't leave a mess when you're done. And please remember to put the seat down when you're finished OK. Thank you.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #826
  • May 19, 2021 2:45am May 19, 2021 2:45am
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Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #827
  • May 19, 2021 3:57am May 19, 2021 3:57am
Quoting joyny
Peter - your opinion is not backed with anything and even you deny the importance of data at all... "just indicative" and you advertise some magic trading style... not based on data.
Exactly my words about all that wizards of trading
They are not using math, but feelings. In 2021. On forex market. Fighting against fastest algos, smartest people and infinitely huge money drawing lines on the charts.
Observer effect
  • #828
  • May 19, 2021 4:32am May 19, 2021 4:32am
Are people around here so ridiculously blind that they cannot look up history of planet Earth? Is that where people are up to now? Hiding from basic reality because Joe Bloe built an algo "that can kick your ass" ??!!! Are you really that afraid of Life and of the unknown?

Do you REALLY ..... REALLY think that "algo's are anything new???

Tell me, do you know what a Thesaurus is by any chance? Go "google it"and learn something please. And when you're done, buy one and learn how to use it. WOOOW !!

Silly and childish group think and ghost stories.

"Algo's" have ALWAYS been there. We used to call them ...... wait for it ....... STRATEGIES. AAAAAAh oh no !!!

So I'm not a troll or anything else you want to sling. Just a guy who can see most are just scared little children hiding behind stories.

Yeppp !! Drawing a line. You remember what that is right ?!!! You stuck around for that class at school right ??

There's some uuum... "brutal truth". Pathetic social clique group think.

The stuff I write is not for the dumb asses. It's for those who never gave their brain away at the swap meet.

Real trading is all about what you do AFTER your trading is done ......... dumb asses !!! All these so-called experienced people. Hahaha yeah ok sure.

** Data is only good/useful when you can use your brain instead of relying on silly people who only replicate what others do without any thought to the consequences.

Have fun.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #829
  • May 19, 2021 5:16am May 19, 2021 5:16am
Quote
But without doubt, anyone watching live orders going to market sees big orders being trapped within minutes of being executed.
I've also seen this, it could be profit taking also.
I understand everything you are saying. I can even say that both of us are using the same method.

Quote
But without doubt, anyone watching live orders going to market sees big orders being trapped within minutes of being executed.
On the time & sales tab or level II ?

Why is it a grudge match? Could be an exhibition also

Thanks for your time Rick
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
  • #830
  • May 19, 2021 5:26am May 19, 2021 5:26am
Quoting PeterCaleb
Real trading is all about what you do AFTER your trading is done
Wow sounds like another "secret" of "success". AFTER... caplock ...yes...

When you stop thinking then REAL thinking starts... Peter? Is it so?

ok I stop writing its more than 10 words allready... Too complicated for me
  • #831
  • May 19, 2021 8:36am May 19, 2021 8:36am
Quoting maverick2017
{quote} {quote} Yes. One should be responsible for their actions and accountable for their words. {quote} Thanks for the reminder. I have to study the PA around S/R levels. Thanks for your time
I've been focused on trading the since yesterday and couldn't comment on this post. It is important to study PA around key price levels/zones. Part of the challenge is to identify trade setups, and then work through which setup you are comfortable with in selecting your trade. You will see banker "knife fights" like the example RickM posted, at these important levels, which is a good thing for you as a trader. You may also see the market ignore your key level as it races to a completely new target. But, all this analysis and thinking and experience and knowledge must, at some point, relate back to your trading strategy, and on a regular basis, become an action plan for your immediate trading activities. I have been heavily trading the GA, EA, and GY for weeks now, as these pairs move to and from S/R levels, as part of a themed strategy that I've worked up. My daily plan is supported by the combined results of my daily plans from the past week. When a bankers' knife fight breaks out, as it did earlier this week on the GA, you wait for the winner to emerge and follow them, which meant continues buying on the GA.

As for new S/R levels emerging during the knife fight, if your S/R levels are from the 4H chart (in reality, I use price zones on the 4H chart), you have fewer surprises at the 4H charting level, but always pay attention to surprises. And a word about knife fights: actual fights occur regularly, full on brawls rarely. But often the fight is, in reality, the Tier 1 banks farming some work out to Tier 2 and 3 banks. So be careful how you interpret these things.
  • #832
  • May 19, 2021 9:00am May 19, 2021 9:00am
Quote
I've been focused on trading the since yesterday and couldn't comment on this post.
You don't have to say this. I understand that people will reply only when they are not trading or doing trading related activities.

Quote
Part of the challenge is to identify trade setups, and then work through which setup you are comfortable with in selecting your trade..
I'm comfortable with failures, decrease in momentum, market coming back to a small range & breaking out from the range, rejection, shooting star (don't know why I can't put hammer in the same category, maybe it is because I'm a bear) and sometimes when price stays at the top/bottom of a range for a long time (intraday) and then there is level II and time & sales data which I watch continuously, charts are used to see what has happened (intraday).
Recently I started making S/R lines and find that market comes back or reacts to these levels pretty nicely. So, now the search for why and how will begin.

Quote
But, all this analysis and thinking and experience and knowledge must, at some point, relate back to your trading strategy, and on a regular basis, become an action plan for your immediate trading activities.
Ok.

Quote
you wait for the winner to emerge and follow them,
Can we support them when they fight?

Quote
But often the fight is, in reality, the Tier 1 banks farming some work out to Tier 2 and 3 banks.
How?! Do you mean that Tier 2 & 3 fight for business from Tier 1 banks?

Will tread with caution.

Thanks for your time G.
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
  • #833
  • May 19, 2021 2:45pm May 19, 2021 2:45pm
Can we support them when they fight? No. We are opportunistic followers, not helpers.


Do you mean that Tier 2 & 3 fight for business from Tier 1 banks? Fight? Not so much. Compete? Yes.
  • #834
  • May 19, 2021 3:09pm May 19, 2021 3:09pm
Quoting GEfx
Can we support them when they fight? No. We are opportunistic followers, not helpers. Do you mean that Tier 2 & 3 fight for business from Tier 1 banks? Fight? Not so much. Compete? Yes.
How do they compete?

Thanks for your time G
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
  • #835
  • May 19, 2021 4:11pm May 19, 2021 4:11pm
Quoting maverick2017
{quote} How do they compete? Thanks for your time G
They compete for business from Tier 1 banks the same way any other business competes: relationships, execution, capabilities, competency, price, etc.

Good trading
  • #836
  • May 19, 2021 4:26pm May 19, 2021 4:26pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} They compete for business from Tier 1 banks the same way any other business competes: relationships, execution, capabilities, competency, price, etc. Good trading
The 'knife fight' between banks begins at the S/R zones. But where does one bank realize that their position might be under attack.
My guess is they kind of realize that their position is under attack pretty early and start taking the initial counter trades much before the main S/R level is reached. Like they try to catch a falling knife.
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
  • #837
  • May 19, 2021 9:02pm May 19, 2021 9:02pm
Quoting maverick2017
{quote} The 'knife fight' between banks begins at the S/R zones.
S/R levels are only one place/reason where conflict might arise among bankers. I use the phrase "knife fight" because it reflects the dangers of trading where there is indecision in the market. In reality, there is less conflict at these levels and more communications occurring among bankers (they read charts, too). The notion that, at these price levels, some bank wins and the others lose is grossly incorrect.
  • #838
  • May 19, 2021 9:47pm May 19, 2021 9:47pm
With all this lovely talk about bank traders and support-resistance, may I ask please for a show of hands right now, of the people who ACTUALLY know any bank traders, in real time? Can get them on the phone RIGHT NOW and ask them the direct Q's that would need to be asked to bring this silly conversation to a close?

No I am not trolling. I am simply a person who has accumulated experiences with bank traders and so I know better and or different and can ask the questions I just asked.

Any person in their right mind, at some point needs to ask these questions of the people here.

I write this for the people who are "around" and are following this "conversation" or thread and may be trying to learn something.

If you have any observation skills at all, you will note that these people clearly do not appreciate what bank traders do or how they actually operate and WHY they do what they do. They are merely speculating as to what goes on because they are not genuine traders, they are speculators. Yes there is a difference and yes this difference matters and is meaningful.

So be very mindful who you trust and listen to and most importantly, who you learn from and through.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #839
  • May 19, 2021 9:55pm May 19, 2021 9:55pm
People who talk in circles are not learning, they're just wasting time. And they're assuming there's nothing more to learn.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #840
  • May 19, 2021 10:42pm May 19, 2021 10:42pm
Quoting maverick2017
{quote} The 'knife fight' between banks begins at the S/R zones. But where does one bank realize that their position might be under attack. My guess is they kind of realize that their position is under attack pretty early and start taking the initial counter trades much before the main S/R level is reached. Like they try to catch a falling knife.
By the way, just for the record, I know over 100 traders personally, with many of them former bank traders. There are dozens of former bank traders in the trading group I belong to, I have consulted with Tier 1 banks, have consulted with The Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, and have consulted with the CBOT. I regularly discuss forex trading in various threads here on FF, and have documented my trading in a journal, right here on FF. I talk about actual trading and forex trades. I'd be happy to discuss my real, actual forex trades that I've made this week in the GA, the EA, the G$, and the $CAD. I can explain my analysis of market structure, my analysis of FA, my TA, why I make trades, and why I exit profitable trades when I do. I can explain why the market does what it does, and what's going on in the market right now.

Or you can talk to Peter about...whatever bullshit he going on about. I'm a trader. I have zero interest in talking about learning or having the disjointed, unfocused, obscure discussions that Peter seem involved in.

One of the brutal truths about FF is this: people like Peter are allowed to wander around, making unsubstantiated claims about themselves, without ever actually posting a chart or talking about their trades today. I will offer the following challenge to Peter. Any day you'd like to offer contemporaneous trading analysis and trades on FA along side me, you just let me know. Let's see if you have the balls and brains you often talk about.
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