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The brutal truth of day trading

  • #761
  • May 10, 2021 10:13pm May 10, 2021 10:13pm
Quoting joyny
{quote} Peter what you can tell regarding Renaissance Technologies 30+ years consistent results? Is that some money loundary scheme or corruptive insider trading practices? Or quantitative analysis and algos is working approach?


I would say you need to spend less time worrying about them and focus on what you're doing with your own trading.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #762
  • May 11, 2021 12:04am May 11, 2021 12:04am
I'd like to post another brutal truth about day trading: successful traders learn to identify targets, trade to their targets, and add to positive trades (rather than exit) until your trades reach their targets. Part of the daily trading plan includes finding targets, and understanding where you might find your second, third, fourth, etc trades. Never place trade 1 until you can understand trade 2. I understand there are traders here who make dozens of trades a day, at a few pips per trade, but the vast majority who try this approach fail. Learn to identify the targets the bankers are trading. Add to positive trades instead of closing trades for a few pips.
  • #763
  • May 11, 2021 12:14am May 11, 2021 12:14am
[quote=RickM;13531940]

It makes sense. Thanks.
  • #764
  • May 11, 2021 1:11am May 11, 2021 1:11am
Quoting PeterCaleb
Just grab a pen, pencil and paper and sit, be quiet and learn. DO NOT think about money or "making money" .... just listen take notes and absorb it. BASICS .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gDMNIU4LOk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A7a7Fk2F9g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUvB89DMtww Peter
Thanks Peter for the additional info and links. Much appreciated.
  • #765
  • May 11, 2021 5:21am May 11, 2021 5:21am
Brutal truth of day trading -
Once you are on tilt then its tough to stop trading and losing. Generally it is tough to recover before you lose a sizeable percentage of your equity. Every move is an opportunity missed.
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
  • #766
  • May 11, 2021 6:23am May 11, 2021 6:23am
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} I would say you need to spend less time worrying about them and focus on what you're doing with your own trading. Peter
I trade only automated with a bunch of EAs.

if somebody using automated trading and proves with accounting reports 30+ years average consistent 66% year gains I am interested to know how that company does trading. here some insights....
  • #767
  • May 11, 2021 7:20pm May 11, 2021 7:20pm
Quoting Pumi
{quote} Thanks Peter for the additional info and links. Much appreciated.


No problem. Happy to help.

Enjoy your learning.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #768
  • May 11, 2021 7:27pm May 11, 2021 7:27pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} No problem. Happy to help. Enjoy your learning. Peter
Hi Peter,
Where should I discuss your posts in your thread?!
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
  • #769
  • May 11, 2021 7:33pm May 11, 2021 7:33pm
Quoting joyny
{quote} I trade only automated with a bunch of EAs. if somebody using automated trading and proves with accounting reports 30+ years average consistent 66% year gains I am interested to know how that company does trading. here some insights....


Let me add some perspective here OK ...


66% over 12 months ... 5.5% monthly.

Now forget about money and everything else. Do YOU think you could find say, 2-3 trades that DO in fact repeat over and over again, year in and year out, set things up so you perform them well every time, and then set it up so it's either semi automated or fully automated? With the appropriate setup, very easy to do. Now let's remember that profits tend to absorb losses and if your profits exceeds your losses (before tax but after trading and/or operational costs etc) then you have a profit. There's no magic to it. Just find a certain trade setup that performs well whenever it turns up and then setup your compounding equations around it.

Most traders don't understand the two types of trades - 1. True vs False and 2. Wet vs Dry.

1 - Many people use an indicator etc and at times they give 'false signals'. These can turn into bad trades. There's a loss. But when there's a true signal then you have a chance at gaining profit. And depending on how you trade that setup you may come out with a profit.
2 - Wet = The trade setup shows up, you trade it and generate a clean profit. Dry = The setup never shows up. No loss incurred. Simple.

There's no secret, it's simply about finding any/the ongoing flaws/weaknesses in the situation that runs the process. Could be the person, or internet or equipment used(computers etc). These are the last parts of taking a "good" strategy and making it great.

It takes time and effort but it's VERY doable.

I hope that helps.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #770
  • May 11, 2021 7:35pm May 11, 2021 7:35pm
Quoting maverick2017
{quote} Hi Peter, Where should I discuss your posts in your thread?!


Do you want to discuss or do you want to "discuss" ? One is for answers only while the other is to progress without expectation of getting answers.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #771
  • May 11, 2021 7:50pm May 11, 2021 7:50pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} Do you want to discuss or do you want to "discuss" ? One is for answers only while the other is to progress without expectation of getting answers. Peter
The later.
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
  • #772
  • May 12, 2021 1:46am May 12, 2021 1:46am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Bubincka Yes, still trade it but with a few changes I won't give away. It still offers a nice return but it does run through periods of low return like all Algo's do. The biggest problem for me is the reduced leverage Australia brokers now offer, meaning the $50K I used to use running 15 EA's now requires triple the account size. I decided to only run my best EA's these days and just have a simpler life. Many non- Algo traders think you start the EA and do nothing more - however the work in checking trade executions and ongoing testing...
Reduced Leverage In AUS
Many traders I know have got or are getting Pro accounts with Aussie regulated brokers. Back to 100:1 or whatever leverage you want. Seems to be ridiculously easy to do. Bit of a joke really. I haven't done it myself yet because I don't trade with high risk these days.
Don't Guess Test
  • #773
  • May 12, 2021 1:48am May 12, 2021 1:48am
Quoting maverick2017
Trading becomes simple when one starts to look at it from a limit order and market order point of view.
Really?
Please explain yourself?
Don't Guess Test
  • #774
  • May 12, 2021 2:47am May 12, 2021 2:47am
Quoting maverick2017
{quote} Very true. You should also not try to trap people. Scalping requires more work because one has to take multiple trading decisions per day and most of the time they have to take decisions in split seconds.
Learning How To Learn
Hi Maverick,

I have been following your posts. My conclusion is that you are either trying very hard to understand what trading is all about or you are just leading Peter, Rick and others on a merry dance. For the moment I will assume the former and just add my two bits of advice for what they are worth.

You said "Scalping requires more work because one has to take multiple trading decisions per day and most of the time they have to take decisions in split seconds"

You made the above statements with some degree of authority. Where did you get that information from? I doubt if any experienced trader would say something like that because it is (a) Too simplistic (b) Probably wrong although it could seem right to some, at least in a superficial sense.

The problem here is that you are obtaining information from someone who doesn't know what they are talking about and passing it on to others in the same way.

Some newbie, skimming the surface of this forum will see your post and say "OK, scalping requires split second decisions." They file that bit of information away in their memory cells and eventually get so overloaded with irrelevant or incorrect information that it becomes impossible to make informed trading decisions.

And it gets worse. This information eventually wends itself into a story which then turns into a belief system which the person becomes locked into. Belief systems over time solidify and become very hard to change as you can easily see if you look at the world around you.

Have you tried scalping and also tried trading longer time frames? Did you use a stop watch or even an old egg timer to determine how quickly you have to respond to changes in market conditions? - Hint it isn't fractions of a second. How much thinking do you have to do with scalping v's holding longer positions? Is it possible for you to just place a trade and forget all about it and do you get satisfactory results with this approach? Do you intend to replace your own thinking with an EA? - Good luck with this one, and so on and so on.

The answers to these questions will be different for each trader. Get a demo account and test, experiment, observe, learn without risking or losing real money. Book learning is OK for some things but is very limited for trading. For a start, most trading books (or forums) are full of bullshit or at least stuff that is irrelevant. Most of your useful learning will come from personal observation and experience.

If your objective is to be a master of bullshit then I would say you are headed in the right direction for success. If your objective is to be a successful trader then I would suggest you change direction ASAP before you completely stuff up your mind for trading.

Tim
Don't Guess Test
  • #775
  • Edited 3:07am May 12, 2021 2:49am | Edited 3:07am
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} Tim, For me (and only me as I can only speak for myself), Although I do in fact utilize futures data, I mainly use the same process a person would use when working with ETF's, Stocks and Converse Debt Finance. I use investigative methods to see into the entities that trade worldwide so I can understand their motives for why they would use exposure to offset or profit trade. For me, this is more accurate as most medium-large caps don't have any interest in 1-5 point corrective turns. Their motives vary but can be determined if one understands...
Thanks Peter
I think I am starting to get the general gist of what you have been talking about. I hope I am able to keep on watching your posts, looking, listening and perhaps even learning a little here and there.

Tim
Don't Guess Test
  • #776
  • May 12, 2021 2:53am May 12, 2021 2:53am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi TraderTim The basic data I use is sourced from CME using CQG data onto my futures platform - but traded on MT4 as I have spend 3 years developing my current systems which are not transferrable due to coding issues at present. Volume is actually a very misleading description to label the market activity to be honest because we should be looking at breaking it down further. I first measure the daily passive liquidity that sits on a chart which is just liquidity that is traded from the left hand to the right hand and therefore is fixed in...
Order Flow and other interesting things

Thanks Rick
A couple of years ago I did some programming work for a fairly experienced trading colleague of mine. It was based around Order Flow (OF) and segmented profiling. At the time I didn’t feel he was quite on track as to where he was directing his project. To the best of my knowledge he never managed to integrate all the work we did into his day to day trading process. It was nonetheless interesting. From what I saw, this OF stuff seems to have significant potential for short term trading but not in the way in which it is commonly presented.

At the moment I am working on a fairly large but quite different trading project of my own but hopefully I will have an opportunity to revisit the OF idea again in the not too distant future. For me the world of trading and financial markets provides an almost unlimited amount of mental stimulation which is probably the main thing that keeps me going these days.
Tim
Don't Guess Test
  • #777
  • May 12, 2021 3:25am May 12, 2021 3:25am
Quoting TraderTim125
{quote} Really? Please explain yourself?
Why would I do that?
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
  • #778
  • Edited 3:50am May 12, 2021 3:33am | Edited 3:50am
Quoting TraderTim125
{quote} Learning How To Learn Hi Maverick, I have been following your posts. My conclusion is that you are either trying very hard to understand what trading is all about or you are just leading Peter, Rick and others on a merry dance. For the moment I will assume the former and just add my two bits of advice for what they are worth. You said "Scalping requires more work because one has to take multiple trading decisions per day and most of the time they have to take decisions in split seconds" You made the above statements with some degree of authority....
Here's the thing. My learning comes from books and experience. I've found books very helpful and I do not know which one's you've read.
Any scalper will know what I'm talking about.
And this "someone who doesn't know what they are talking about", this line gets repeated a lot in this forum. Don't know who said it first sam seiden or warren buffett.
"Hint it isn't fractions of a second." Were you a bank trader?
Half of the things you have written in your posts are irrelevant because they are YOUR observations/thoughts and the other half is worth shit if that is what your two cents are about.

Last thing is, I'm not trying to offend anyone. I think that is where your questions are coming from.
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
  • #779
  • May 12, 2021 5:28am May 12, 2021 5:28am
Quoting maverick2017
{quote} Here's the thing. My learning comes from books and experience. I've found books very helpful and I do not know which one's you've read. Any scalper will know what I'm talking about. And this "someone who doesn't know what they are talking about", this line gets repeated a lot in this forum. Don't know who said it first sam seiden or warren buffett. "Hint it isn't fractions of a second." Were you a bank trader? Half of the things you have written in your posts are irrelevant because they are YOUR observations/thoughts and the other half is...
maverick

Thank you for your thoughtful discourse
I wont bother you anymore.

Tim
Don't Guess Test
  • #780
  • May 12, 2021 7:07am May 12, 2021 7:07am
Quoting TraderTim125
{quote} maverick Thank you for your thoughtful discourse I wont bother you anymore. Tim
Hi Tim,

1.) I don't like when people make assumptions without knowing the fact.
2.) Slangs get to me. I hate them.
3.) You didn't bother me but I felt offended in a way. Can you point out the posts in which you thought I was just doing the merry dance with? If you think then, trading is fun and it is almost a compliment but the way it was said is not appreciated.

Thank you.
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
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