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Spot FX Vs Futures FX?

  • #21
  • May 6, 2021 6:02am May 6, 2021 6:02am
Quoting G.m
{quote} Thanks. And do you know which is the minimum lot for them? I'm looking for something smaller than 1 contract (125k€) minimum.

at admiral markets, the future spreads are cheap if you want to trade them
cfd is better
dow, s & p 500, nasdaq 100, dax, gold
do a demo of everyone find out what suits you
  • #22
  • May 6, 2021 6:07am May 6, 2021 6:07am
Quoting DAET
With Futures you have real volume as this is a centralised exchange, not so with Fx which is broker volume....
I started to think I was the only one on earth that knew there is no centralised trading desk in fx..........Thank you
  • #23
  • May 6, 2021 6:17am May 6, 2021 6:17am
Quoting kette
{quote} at admiral markets, the future spreads are cheap if you want to trade them cfd is better dow, s & p 500, nasdaq 100, dax, gold do a demo of everyone find out what suits you
i already have a real MT5 account with admiral but i don't see FOREX futures. Are you sure about that?
icmarkets i just asked to support chat and they don't offer future forex.
  • #24
  • May 6, 2021 6:30am May 6, 2021 6:30am
Quoting G.m
{quote} Thanks. And do you know which is the minimum lot for them? I'm looking for something smaller than 1 contract (125k€) minimum.
Those brokers are not futures brokers. They have cfd trading which means they can manipulate it just like the spot quotes.

Here is the information for micro currency futures
https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/fx/...ed_version.pdf

I personally would not even touch spot fx trading. All forex brokers are market makers, meaning what you lose is their profit.
The margin requirement for micro currency futures is very low and no swaps..
  • #25
  • May 6, 2021 6:38am May 6, 2021 6:38am
Quoting GoldTheHun
{quote} Those brokers are not futures brokers. They have cfd trading which means they can manipulate it just like the spot quotes.
Ok. Could you address me at an MT4/5 broker that offer futures forex?
  • #26
  • May 6, 2021 7:04am May 6, 2021 7:04am
Quoting G.m
{quote} Ok. Could you address me at an MT4/5 broker that offer futures forex?
https://atas.net/de/


try it
demo 14 days whether you really need it to act

the small monthly subscription 69, -euro
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  • #27
  • May 6, 2021 7:23am May 6, 2021 7:23am
Quoting G.m
{quote} Ok. Could you address me at an MT4/5 broker that offer futures forex?
This one is a good one to start with
https://www.ampfutures.com/

I am not affiliated with them but I have used them. They are a real discount futures broker located in Chicago with all the regulations.
There are so many others too. Just don't fall for the crook cfd brokers posing as futures brokers.
General rule of thumb. If the futures broker is located in USA they are legitimate and fully regulated.
Hope this helps
  • #28
  • May 6, 2021 7:36am May 6, 2021 7:36am
https://www.eurex.com/ex-de/maerkte/...Futures-141170

https://swissgoldsafe.ch/de/comex-commodities-exchange/
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  • #29
  • May 6, 2021 8:53am May 6, 2021 8:53am
With spot forex, if you know how to trade properly and have a small account you can exploit high leverage to grow pretty quickly, you can't leverage with futures.

Except that, i think futures is better for any other aspect.
  • #30
  • May 6, 2021 9:27am May 6, 2021 9:27am
Quoting jojofx
With spot forex, if you know how to trade properly and have a small account you can exploit high leverage to grow pretty quickly, you can't leverage with futures. Except that, i think futures is better for any other aspect.
If you have access to a futures and matching spot fx charts on separate computers, just trade off the futures data but take the actual trades on MT4.
This way you will have access cheap leverage while enjoying the fruits of accessing the imbalance, absorption and delta levels directly off the futures platform.

Then the penny will drop, you will get to understand how liquidity is controlled.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #31
  • May 6, 2021 10:20am May 6, 2021 10:20am
Quoting RickM
{quote} If you have access to a futures and matching spot fx charts on separate computers, just trade off the futures data but take the actual trades on MT4. This way you will have access cheap leverage while enjoying the fruits of accessing the imbalance, absorption and delta levels directly off the futures platform. Then the penny will drop, you will get to understand how liquidity is controlled.
It's not just matter on watch futures charts and trade on forex charts. There are more things to consider: for example on futures is less likely to be stopped out because of a "stop hunt" or because whipsaw during news or maybe the price came 2 pips near your stop loss and for whatever reason you get stopped out from your trade on spot forex brokers.

Another consideration could be the difference in the volume which is unique for the futures, no matter what broker you trade on, while for spot forex you can only see the tick volume (how much activity is goin on) of the clients in your same broker. (unless you use external volume data)

I guess there are a lot of guides around that explains the difference better than i did.
  • #32
  • Edited 6:28pm May 6, 2021 3:43pm | Edited 6:28pm
Quoting jojofx
{quote} It's not just matter on watch futures charts and trade on forex charts. There are more things to consider: for example on futures is less likely to be stopped out because of a "stop hunt" or because whipsaw during news or maybe the price came 2 pips near your stop loss and for whatever reason you get stopped out from your trade on spot forex brokers. Another consideration could be the difference in the volume which is unique for the futures, no matter what broker you trade on, while for spot forex you can only see the tick volume (how much...
There is no APPARENT difference in the ratio of volume on either spot fx or futures. If volume doubles on futures on any bar, the same increase in volume also seems to visually occur in spot fx.
I look at absorption and imbalance signals on my footprint chart & DOM from the futures chart, then immediately take the same trade on spot fx. Provided the setup runs true on futures, you will win 99% of every trade you take.

The futures price seems to lead spot fx visually by about half a second most of the time. Gold last Friday had a big spike around mid London session which on Futures was 4 seconds earlier. I immediately hit the Buy button on spot fx and was rewarded a second later with the same move on spot fx and a nice win. Generally what occurs most times is your broker will not execute your trade till it matches the move on futures - IC Markets failed themselves that night.

The main visible difference is spot fx has longer wicks and can bleed a bit higher or lower - but they move in sync in both direction and apparent volume RATIO.

Stop runs is seen to be only in spread movement in spot fx which explains the longer wicks. The reality of studying Futures data is you realise stop runs are just a myth. Passive limit orders are submissive to aggressive market orders therefore do not cause any major market movements. It’s the big players releasing liquidity to favour an apparent move towards a supposed stop loss cluster then placing order blocks to prevent further movement that APPEARS to show stop runs are real when it’s just manipulation.

Cheers
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #33
  • May 7, 2021 12:34am May 7, 2021 12:34am
Quoting furburger
any difference? from all the digging i get only conclusion i can come up with is that in spot 1 lot is $10 and Futures 1 lot is $12 so futures fx is more money per pip
Spot fx is traded with dealer (they quote bid/ask to you) while futures are exchanged traded contract where current buy-sell prices are determined by trade flow, order book
  • #34
  • May 7, 2021 1:39am May 7, 2021 1:39am
Quoting murcott
{quote} Spot fx is traded with dealer (they quote bid/ask to you) while futures are exchanged traded contract where current buy-sell prices are determined by trade flow, order book
There is no real visible difference, bid for bid, ask or ask.
If you spend 5 hours a night on the M1 chart watching every candle move and close like the mug your reading now does, you will see they move together in sync.

The real question is what come first, chicken or the egg
What market leads, Futures or spot fx.
Does it matter what market leads by 0.5 a second.

Not really
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #35
  • Last Post: May 9, 2021 8:05am May 9, 2021 8:05am
Quoting RickM
{quote} There is no APPARENT difference in the ratio of volume on either spot fx or futures. If volume doubles on futures on any bar, the same increase in volume also seems to visually occur in spot fx. I look at absorption and imbalance signals on my footprint chart & DOM from the futures chart, then immediately take the same trade on spot fx. Provided the setup runs true on futures, you will win 99% of every trade you take. The futures price seems to lead spot fx visually by about half a second most of the time. Gold last Friday had a big spike...
Yes pretty much i agree on everything. I don't use volume for trading so i'm not a big expert of it.
Very interesting how you use volume for your tradings mate.

Stops hunt is just an erroneous name that everyone of us got habit to use. I see those "stops hunt" just like a very logical behavior of big players. The reason is very simple: for example, if you are stocking apples, you are gathering them in order to sell them when price reaches 10$. You start to buy in mass beginning from 1$, then 2$, then 3$, then 4$. All at sudden you see a bunch of people selling apples back to 2$ (these are the sell stops orders/loss of the small players). At this point you, as a big player, it's just logical that you push the price and go back to buy those cheap apples at 2$. This kind of "manipulation" is wrongly called "stop hunt".

I guess my main concern is exactly those wicks and spread you talked about that sometimes cause my stop loss to get filled and kicked out from a trade while on futures 90% of time wouldn't happen. But yeah, the solution is just put a wider stop loss and enjoy the high leverage if you don't have a big account.
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