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The brutal truth of day trading

  • #381
  • Apr 25, 2021 8:53pm Apr 25, 2021 8:53pm
Do any of you buy what the OP states here cause i dont "However, short term patterns and repetitive short term cycles with predictive value, do not exist. There is no “secret,” there is no predictive ability, its random, like a roulette wheel. That is why you cannot make any significant money in the long term from day trading".ive been day trading for 20 yrs and the last 8 day trading the emini nasdaq on a 20 chart and making money every week
  • #382
  • Apr 25, 2021 9:02pm Apr 25, 2021 9:02pm
Quoting Divergence
Do any of you buy what the OP states here cause i dont "However, short term patterns and repetitive short term cycles with predictive value, do not exist. There is no “secret,” there is no predictive ability, its random, like a roulette wheel. That is why you cannot make any significant money in the long term from day trading".ive been day trading for 20 yrs and the last 8 day trading the emini nasdaq on a 20 chart and making money every week


If someone is single minded in their approach, they will only see what they want to see. To me, using the usual stereotypical definition of day trading, it's about counter trade risk rather than return. The activity is thinner so one needs to find a way to counter risk of the unknown knowables. People lose money because they do not understand.

One needs to ask the question "Is there?" before judging if there isn't.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #383
  • Apr 25, 2021 9:04pm Apr 25, 2021 9:04pm
I've been trading for decades now and day trades are done with basic practical awareness. You can't earn off what you no longer have.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #384
  • Apr 25, 2021 9:07pm Apr 25, 2021 9:07pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} Sorry, did I just walk into a hair salon? The direction IS the way. All that stuff about style is an opinion of what the person is comfortable with or, is inline with timing. If you strip away the labels and names you will understand. Go and place an order to market and just blindly choose the order size that is the max of what your account can handle. No SL or TP and watch. And see whether direction is less important than style. At the moment you're unteachable. Why? Monkey brigade. Get rid of that and you won't "need" me to teach you....
So basically, this is what communicating with you is like in a nutshell
I say "hey man there are many ways to trade, so don't shit on other people's styles"
And then you say "no man there's only two ways uP oR DOwn
Then I say "Hey man that's not what I meant and you know it."
Then you say "I'm gonna ignore your clarification on what you meant and continue to verbal diarrhea my point all over this thread by arguing against you out of context"

Lmao....

Obviously I and anyone else here agrees that picking the right direction is the whole point of trading...that wasn't what I was even talking about. But you just find ways to argue with everyone by twisting words and taking things out of context so that you can put one thing someone says In a box in order to create a problem which you can solve in your mind for them.

If you want to post what you know about trading why can't you do that without showing off/shitting on someone else's post? If you really had anything of value to say you wouldn't need to do that to make your point.
  • #385
  • Apr 25, 2021 9:08pm Apr 25, 2021 9:08pm
My view of day trading in line with my experience......


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Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #386
  • Apr 25, 2021 9:09pm Apr 25, 2021 9:09pm
Quoting Divergence
Do any of you buy what the OP states here cause i dont "However, short term patterns and repetitive short term cycles with predictive value, do not exist. There is no “secret,” there is no predictive ability, its random, like a roulette wheel. That is why you cannot make any significant money in the long term from day trading".ive been day trading for 20 yrs and the last 8 day trading the emini nasdaq on a 20 chart and making money every week
I disagree with the random walk part, but that was discussed in a separate thread. There is absolutely 0 evidence that forex is a random walk and people who say it is have no idea how to trade so they just make excuses for why they lose money.
  • #387
  • Apr 25, 2021 9:19pm Apr 25, 2021 9:19pm
Quoting viptrading
{quote} So basically, this is what communicating with you is like in a nutshell I say "hey man there are many ways to trade, so don't shit on other people's styles" And then you say "no man there's only two ways uP oR DOwn Then I say "Hey man that's not what I meant and you know it." Then you say "I'm gonna ignore your clarification on what you meant and continue to verbal diarrhea my point all over this thread by arguing against you out of context" Lmao.... Obviously I and anyone else here agrees that picking the right direction is the whole point...


Because most people are too interested in the trendiness and fashion of all this stuff. THAT is the context I am using here. If your ass is stuck to the seat how are you going to get up?

I'm not arguing. I'm simply showing your attachment to things that aren't actually real. I guess I have learned by doing and not by chit chat with "peers" who may or may not know what they're talking about. I make no apologies for being a proactive person rather than a yak.

What IF .... I said to you that you have only 5 days to learn all you need to, to trade properly. Would/Could you do it? And how would you go about achieving this?

And to keep on topic here, it HAD TO BE day trading.

The attitude says 'I don't need to learn anything' but the rest says the opposite.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #388
  • Apr 25, 2021 9:45pm Apr 25, 2021 9:45pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} Because most people are too interested in the trendiness and fashion of all this stuff. THAT is the context I am using here. If your ass is stuck to the seat how are you going to get up? I'm not arguing. I'm simply showing your attachment to things that aren't actually real. I guess I have learned by doing and not by chit chat with "peers" who may or may not know what they're talking about. I make no apologies for being a proactive person rather than a yak. What IF .... I said to you that you have only 5 days to learn all you need to, to...
Ironically you are the only person here that seems to the think they don't need to learn anything.
  • #389
  • Apr 25, 2021 9:47pm Apr 25, 2021 9:47pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} If you say so. If you want to learn then learn. Peter
I think you need to unlearn

have another look at how liquidity is build and broken


I think you had that moment but failed to see it, you missed it Peter
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #390
  • Apr 25, 2021 9:58pm Apr 25, 2021 9:58pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} Because most people are too interested in the trendiness and fashion of all this stuff. THAT is the context I am using here. If your ass is stuck to the seat how are you going to get up? I'm not arguing. I'm simply showing your attachment to things that aren't actually real. I guess I have learned by doing and not by chit chat with "peers" who may or may not know what they're talking about. I make no apologies for being a proactive person rather than a yak. What IF .... I said to you that you have only 5 days to learn all you need to, to...{quote}

Ironically you are the only person here that seems to the think they don't need to learn anything.

If you say so. I'm certainly not disagreeing with you, all I will say is .... if you say so.

Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} If you say so. If you want to learn then learn. Peter

I think you need to unlearn

have another look at how liquidity is build and broken


I think you had that moment but failed to see it, you missed it Peter


Keep thinking. And wondering why I'm not more like you. Maybe then the revelation will hit you Rick.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #391
  • Apr 25, 2021 10:14pm Apr 25, 2021 10:14pm
Quoting viptrading
{quote} I disagree with the random walk part, but that was discussed in a separate thread. There is absolutely 0 evidence that forex is a random walk and people who say it is have no idea how to trade so they just make excuses for why they lose money.
It is random for short periods where no one is applying pressure to the order book.
Then the big players get control of the market providing market structure.
Then they lose control during a period of a wide breakout move controlled by the herd.
So it’s either random (for brief periods), control by big players for most of the day, then the herd gains control for short periods.
This can all be proven by data.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #392
  • Apr 25, 2021 10:16pm Apr 25, 2021 10:16pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} GEfx, Don't get me wrong here I'm sure you know what you know. I'm not making any assumptions. You said it yourself, you don't understand. It's an all encompassing environment. This is why I gave MORE information than just a one sentence, mindless answer. To begin here, you need to let go of your definition of 'bank'. I think it's distracting you from seeing what is here. 'Bank' Debt Liquidity is an area of financial operations that forms a type of analysis that allows a private investor/trader/speculator/other to see what's NOT on the order...
Okay, I've strung this along for one too many posts, at least.

Debt liquidity is the amount of cash that is required to settle short term obligations, and is measured by businesses to determine if their short term cash and near cash positions can settle short term obligations, without borrowing money or selling long-term assets. For a bank, it is a statistical measure that their regulators closely watch, and the bank is obligated to hold reserves to ensure they can settle obligations. It has absolutely nothing to do with trading or their trading operations, or order flow, or price charts.

RickM tracks forex volume data. You suggested that in addition, RickM should track the ability of a bank to pay its short-term obligations. This is what I do not understand. First and foremost, RickM tracks volume; you added debt liquidity. Volume and liquidity are two different things. But debt liquidity is a whole different thing from the different thing you suggested. Everything you have written in response to my question has been off topic, confused and rambling. I understand perfectly well everything you have typed. Unfortunately, none of what you typed is related to the question at hand.

I apologize to everyone here for creating what has become, admittedly, a cluster fuck of a discussion. But, I am annoyed at how people state bullshit on FF and it is often left unchallenged. Peter has done a masterful job throwing more and more bullshit onto his original bullshit, in an attempt to...quite honestly I don't know why. Anyway, this exercise has exposed a brutal truth about FF.

Now, let's get back to brutal truths of day trading. Again, sorry for taking the thread into the ditch.
  • #393
  • Apr 25, 2021 10:35pm Apr 25, 2021 10:35pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} It is random for short periods where no one is applying pressure to the order book. Then the big players get control of the market providing market structure. Then they lose control during a period of a wide breakout move controlled by the herd. So it’s either random (for brief periods), control by big players for most of the day, then the herd gains control for short periods. This can all be proven by data.
No. It's never random. It's just harder to predict at certain times.

There is always buying and selling going on which causes the market to rise or fall. Just because your system or mine does not see a move coming does not make it random.

There is no such thing as random for short periods in this market, it is either random or it is not random and in the case of the FOREX market the price of a particular currency is never "random" In the case of a roulette wheel the outcome of the spins are random...
  • #394
  • Edited Apr 26, 2021 3:29pm Apr 25, 2021 10:46pm | Edited Apr 26, 2021 3:29pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Okay, I've strung this along for one too many posts, at least. Debt liquidity is the amount of cash that is required to settle short term obligations, and is measured by businesses to determine if their short term cash and near cash positions can settle short term obligations, without borrowing money or selling long-term assets. For a bank, it is a statistical measure that their regulators closely watch, and the bank is obligated to hold reserves to ensure they can settle obligations. It has absolutely nothing to do with trading or their...


If you can't see the space between the writings, then the concepts between the material presented will never materialize.

In Rick"s own words right above here .... without ANY coaxing from me ....

- Then the big players get control of the market providing market structure.
- control by big players for most of the day

To add, it also connects to another context - Assets and Liabilities on-book of the bank as a whole of its internals as a financial organism. Also, connects with the other entities they do business with and take finance from or give finance to. Have you EVER traded Stocks? Options? ETF's? From what I see, No.

What I do regarding what I spoke about in previous posts when trying to lay the foundation of the situation, is what RickM is doing/trying to do with the use of Volume from the Futures Data. The difference is, I calculate their weights and positions inline with the regulations and what their goals are and how the market is going at that time of day, week, month and Quarter. It doesn't shows me the 1-2 point anti-impulse moves but the innate structure (That gives the market that oscillative look) that must be used to get their orders to market as well as their other goals being met.

What Rick does to see activity and structure via Volume, I do with readily available data and information so I DO NOT have to outsource for paid subscriptions for data, so I remain completely independent. This way I can map how they like to do things.



Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #395
  • Apr 26, 2021 12:50am Apr 26, 2021 12:50am
You see that GeFX? That is what happens when you feed trolls. He has remained true to form and attacked and belittled anyone who engages in debate. Trolls post in bad faith. They do not post for genuine debate. They do not post for information. They post for attention, any way they can get it.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #396
  • Apr 26, 2021 1:13am Apr 26, 2021 1:13am
If I was GeFX,

I wouldn’t respond to Peter’s insults.
There is no point wasting his time with Peter perfect.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #397
  • Apr 26, 2021 1:22am Apr 26, 2021 1:22am
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} You are an ignorant tool if you say you've worked in Banking and Finance. And you are nothing but a literal thinker who can't see the space between the writings. The concepts between the material presented. In Rick"s own words right above here .... without ANY coaxing from me .... - Then the big players get control of the market providing market structure. - control by big players for most of the day You are truly an idiot GEfx. I said two words that, from a certain point of view IS what it says in the literature that I, Peter provided without...
  • #398
  • Apr 26, 2021 1:30am Apr 26, 2021 1:30am
Quoting RickM
If I was GeFX, I wouldn’t respond to Peter’s insults. There is no point wasting his time with Peter perfect.
I think this guy is trying to antagonize a good trader into giving him something that he might try to monetize later. He has never posted a single hard right edge analysis. Not one thing about entries. Not one thing about exits. Not one thing about stops. Not one thing about return of capital risked. He is all about "I have the answers and you don't". That attitude is meant to drive traffic in his direction. Everyone, and I mean literally EVERYONE is stupid except for him. This is not a trader, this is two bit salesman. He takes the "no such thing as bad publicity" approach.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #399
  • Apr 26, 2021 1:32am Apr 26, 2021 1:32am
AND .... Here you go everyone .... Above me on this thread are your role models. Aren't they tops? I'm sure their parents and family are SO proud. Yeah, I wanna learn from you guys and be just like you.

Yeah .... uum, no thanks.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #400
  • Apr 26, 2021 1:36am Apr 26, 2021 1:36am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} I think this guy is trying to antagonize a good trader into giving him something that he might try to monetize later. He has never posted a single hard right edge analysis. Not one thing about entries. Not one thing about exits. Not one thing about stops. Not one thing about return of capital risked. He is all about "I have the answers and you don't". That attitude is meant to drive traffic in his direction. Everyone, and I mean literally EVERYONE is stupid except for him. This is not a trader, this is two bit salesman. He takes the "no...
He's a shit poster dude. I tried to reason with him but it's like talking to a walking turd machine.

Everything anyone says he argues with. Honestly, who the hell argues with trading psychology being important in trading? Like, if you argue with that you argue about anything that's not even technical strategy that's just common knowledge among all traders.
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