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FTMO - For serious traders

  • #6,961
  • Apr 13, 2021 3:35pm Apr 13, 2021 3:35pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Sure, but I don't think people understand the infrastructure cost of hosting your own bridge, aggregator, MT4 server (not white label) etc. They would need way more than just the challenge fees to maintain that. I welcome them to prove me wrong obviously, but I highly doubt they will. If Buoytrade is anything to go by, they are using global prime. However, based on their symbols and the feed, I think its someone else (CFD's). For spread for customers, they can make it anything they want, thats the horror of metatrader, the price feed can...
Yes, if they keep paying and offering current spreads, it makes no sense to use any of the brokers a US resident has access to, Oanda, Forex.com, IG or offshore. Forex.com and IG have a 7 pip spread on GBPCAD. Is this 1997??? I mean what a blatant rip off.
  • #6,962
  • Apr 13, 2021 3:35pm Apr 13, 2021 3:35pm
Quoting Takisd
But hey, so long as they pay right.
Amen!!
  • #6,963
  • Apr 13, 2021 3:39pm Apr 13, 2021 3:39pm
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} Someone reported huge spreads. LMAX was removed from their website. It was proudly mentioned for a while.
LMAX was a broker choice at one point. The conditions were horrible. I was surprised myself as I always thought highly of LMAX. They have gone to one choice now, the FTMO server, no broker selection. Conditions are 100x better since that move.
  • #6,964
  • Apr 13, 2021 3:40pm Apr 13, 2021 3:40pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, if they keep paying and offering current spreads, it makes no sense to use any of the brokers a US resident has access to, Oanda, Forex.com, IG or offshore. Forex.com and IG have a 7 pip spread on GBPCAD. Is this 1997??? I mean what a blatant rip off.
I don't think I've ever traded live with a US based broker, the spreads were always terrible even when they were also charging commission, coupled with the low leverage and extra regulations.
Australian brokers seem to have the best spreads. I use Global Prime & Pepperstone. IC markets have the tightest in my experience and sometimes FTMO even offers better spreads on the crazy GBP and NZD crosses.
  • #6,965
  • Apr 13, 2021 3:43pm Apr 13, 2021 3:43pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} LMAX was a broker choice at one point. The conditions were horrible. I was surprised myself as I always thought highly of LMAX. They have gone to one choice now, the FTMO server, no broker selection. Conditions are 100x better since that move.
Agreed, and anyone who has been paying attention knows FTMO stopped using LMAX last fall after multiple announcements, etc.

If someone is surprised by that revaluation then they haven't been paying attention.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,966
  • Apr 13, 2021 3:48pm Apr 13, 2021 3:48pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} I don't think I've ever traded live with a US based broker, the spreads were always terrible even when they were also charging commission, coupled with the low leverage and extra regulations. Australian brokers seem to have the best spreads. I use Global Prime & Pepperstone. IC markets have the tightest in my experience and sometimes FTMO even offers better spreads on the crazy GBP and NZD crosses.
Yes, those are probably the best 3 brokers for a retail customer. It is actually why Enfoid is my next conquest...cTrader on ICMarkets. The US is an absolute joke when it comes to forex offerings. If I want to risk $600 on a 2 lot trade of GBPUSD with a 30 pip stop, I need 10K in margin. To top it off, the supposedly toughest "regulators" in the world do not allow the brokers here to offer any type of insurance or protection on the funds. Those not in the US literally have no idea what we deal with here.
  • #6,967
  • Apr 13, 2021 3:49pm Apr 13, 2021 3:49pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} I don't think I've ever traded live with a US based broker, the spreads were always terrible even when they were also charging commission, coupled with the low leverage and extra regulations. Australian brokers seem to have the best spreads. I use Global Prime & Pepperstone. IC markets have the tightest in my experience and sometimes FTMO even offers better spreads on the crazy GBP and NZD crosses.
You'll never get comparable CFD brokers in the states due to existing regulations brought about by DODD-Frank. That's why FTMO is appealing to US traders as an alternative.

Otherwise you'll have to go futures platform where the barrier to entry is much higher. That's the unintended consequence of knee jerk regulations imposed after a crises. The intent was supposedly to protect the average Joe from predatory behavior, etc. The results were that the average Joe is excluded altogether.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,968
  • Apr 13, 2021 3:51pm Apr 13, 2021 3:51pm
Quoting mtako
{quote} One would need much more than a video to prove that ALL do this. But we are inclined to believe what is better for us to believe... Fact is, "real" prop firms have existed for ages but its each and everyones job to do the research. But saying that all of these over there or those over there arent real, without proof, is just a mistake. But hes got good points, thanks for sharing ! I wouldn t be surprised if FTMO succumbed eventually, and became partly transparent regarding some of their real trades, if any exist as they state, which I am...
Real prop firms give less than 20% profit share back to the trader.

Think about it.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #6,969
  • Apr 13, 2021 3:51pm Apr 13, 2021 3:51pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} You'll never get comparable CFD brokers in the states due to existing regulations brought about by DODD-Frank. That's why FTMO is appealing to US traders as an alternative. Otherwise you'll have to go futures platform where the barrier to entry is much higher. That's the unintended consequence of knee jerk regulations imposed after a crises. The intent was supposedly to protect the average Joe from predatory behavior, etc. The results were that the average Joe is excluded altogether.
I actually think it is an "intended" consequence.
  • #6,970
  • Apr 13, 2021 4:01pm Apr 13, 2021 4:01pm
what is a white label?
  • #6,971
  • Apr 13, 2021 4:02pm Apr 13, 2021 4:02pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Real prop firms give less than 20% profit share back to the trader. Think about it.
I truly mean no disrespect , but I do know old school brick and mortar prop firms with a sliding scale of profit share; which begin much much higher than 20%; and go even further as your lifetime profits climb...
  • #6,972
  • Apr 13, 2021 4:13pm Apr 13, 2021 4:13pm
Ps. FTMO operates effectively almost like brick and mortar props would do; the secret sauce are the risk rules, and (I'm expecting) crazy risk management infrastructure. They've just been smart enough to go online versus face to face..

What does pleasantly surprise me though is that it seems they've enough capital to host a global audience of traders at the account sizes they do..

They really are something unique!
  • #6,973
  • Apr 13, 2021 4:16pm Apr 13, 2021 4:16pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Real prop firms give less than 20% profit share back to the trader. Think about it.
Lol you're right. I'll admit, what was once a source of concern for me was the promise of a 70% share. Seemed very suspicious and unreal.
They could have offered 20-50% and Traders would have been happy with it.

Behold, the newer guys are even stepping it up a notch and offering 80%-85%. Madness.
  • #6,974
  • Apr 13, 2021 4:19pm Apr 13, 2021 4:19pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Real prop firms give less than 20% profit share back to the trader. Think about it.

Quoting Thoughts
Ps. FTMO operates effectively almost like brick and mortar props would do; the secret sauce are the risk rules, and (I'm expecting) crazy risk management infrastructure. They've just been smart enough to go online versus face to face.. What does pleasantly surprise me though is that it seems they've enough capital to host a global audience of traders at the account sizes they do.. They really are something unique!
The problem is that in the case of FTMO, we are not talking about a real prop-firm.

Even their website texts do not make sense:
"we have partnered with multiple institutional liquidity providers"

Only exchanges and brokers partner with liquitidty providers. What liquidity do you need if you aren't non of them?

It's obscene.
Always ready to help
  • #6,975
  • Apr 13, 2021 4:20pm Apr 13, 2021 4:20pm
Quoting Thoughts
{quote} I truly mean no disrespect , but I do know old school brick and mortar prop firms with a sliding scale of profit share; which begin much much higher than 20%; and go even further as your lifetime profits climb...
Oh wow, that's good to know. Being accepted into such firms would be quite a challenge right?
I've always felt like the remote prop thing just feels better than having to go into an office and work under the pressure of monitoring eyes and physical competition
  • #6,976
  • Apr 13, 2021 4:41pm Apr 13, 2021 4:41pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Real prop firms give less than 20% profit share back to the trader. Think about it.

With all due respect, and I am not an expert in prop funds, but it is a verifiable fact that many very real prop firms have offerings that are much more than what you state. Perhaps you meant to say "give less than 20%" + salary ? I do know that world of fund managers very well and we would be on the same page...

Perhaps you meant to say "less than FTMO", then I would understand you...

All this is irrelevant though, I believe, because FTMO is clearly not your "ordinary" firm. Wouldn't go as far as calling them fake though... at least not yet.

Many factors, many models. And new models are being created as the world changes.

And FTMO is a very very new model. And we will know eventually if they are a "real" prop firm. I am the last one that will speculate on anything without some good ol' facts !
If I don't mention SL and/or TP = longer-term setup possibly in the works!
  • #6,977
  • Apr 13, 2021 4:56pm Apr 13, 2021 4:56pm
Quoting mtako
{quote} With all due respect, and I am not an expert in prop funds, but it is a verifiable fact that many very real prop firms have offerings that are much more than what you state. Perhaps you meant to say "give less than 20%" + salary ? I do know that world of fund managers very well and we would be on the same page... Perhaps you meant to say "less than FTMO", then I would understand you... All this is irrelevant though, I believe, because FTMO is clearly not your "ordinary" firm. Wouldn't go as far as calling them fake though... at least not...
20%, sweetie pie.. no.. Most of the big prop firms for futures offer 50% as a minimum after desk fees. Fund managers charge 2 and 20 as the traditional fee model but prop firms have always been ~50 percent, at least in the last 20 years. The top traders at a prop firm that shall not be named (futures) get 75% and no desk fees. But they are proven over time and perform.
  • #6,978
  • Apr 13, 2021 5:07pm Apr 13, 2021 5:07pm
Quoting mtako
{quote} And FTMO is a very very new model. And we will know eventually if they are a "real" prop firm. I am the last one that will speculate on anything without some good ol' facts !
Not really. TopStep had been around for over a decade doing essentially the same thing only for futures traders.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,979
  • Apr 13, 2021 5:20pm Apr 13, 2021 5:20pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} Lol you're right. I'll admit, what was once a source of concern for me was the promise of a 70% share. Seemed very suspicious and unreal. They could have offered 20-50% and Traders would have been happy with it. Behold, the newer guys are even stepping it up a notch and offering 80%-85%. Madness.

Offering 20-50% alone would not have worked as firms much older and reputable than them offer that. They have a new model, for the little guy/gal, that wouldve never even got through the door. + for the professional.

But yeah those new guys... scary !

On another note, I get it, it is scary. Does not mean FTMO is fake. Even their info regarding educating potential traders. They are in Europe and their model does not fit well in the traditional financial world and they are probably working with an out of Europe funder if they do trade live as they say, or will have to eventually.

I personally would not get in with them till they can provide enough transparency to prove that when the trader profits, they profit, and that there are no conflicts of interest at all. I ve had to waste enough time with brokers with a conflict of interest long ago, which has cost me too many hours and money so I am done with even considering giving the benefit of the doubt when it comes to my hard earned money and time.

IF one can avoid FTMO till they work on their transparency a little bit, all the better. BUT I will not judge anyone that decides to work with them without that. Some dont have the luxury to. Too many are living very very very different situations to judge anyone blindly...

Im done giving my 2 cents here. We are spending more time and effort disapproving each other and too often without a shred of proof.

Ill come back when we get back to more than 10% substance about FTMO and less than 90% insults and speculations!

Take care and happy trading to you all, and apologies if I have offended anyone. I do not know anyone here so any judgement on my part was nothing personal, sincerely, Mat
If I don't mention SL and/or TP = longer-term setup possibly in the works!
  • #6,980
  • Apr 13, 2021 5:21pm Apr 13, 2021 5:21pm
Quoting mtako
{quote} With all due respect, and I am not an expert in prop funds, but it is a verifiable fact that many very real prop firms have offerings that are much more than what you state. Perhaps you meant to say "give less than 20%" + salary ? I do know that world of fund managers very well and we would be on the same page... Perhaps you meant to say "less than FTMO", then I would understand you... All this is irrelevant though, I believe, because FTMO is clearly not your "ordinary" firm. Wouldn't go as far as calling them fake though... at least not...
Where can I find that verification?

A prop-firm is just one or more individuals that open a trading account to trade their own capital. They don't usually hire traders, as they are the traders.

When they decide to set some capital to an external trader, they usually don't pay more than 20% of trader's generated profits. It is the standard maximum in the industry. You get good enough traders with that profit share. No one will pay more when there is no need for that.

Just enumerate some real prop-firms that pay more. Avoid to mention those "prop-firms" tha ask for participation fees in their challenges.

Salary? Also very weird. Prop-firms aren't usually big enough to afford salaries. Too little of them have traders on board. When they are big enough, they turn to funds, as they can secure capital from the public and earn more due to management fees. And, only funds with too much capital under management can afford salaries for others than their main manager.
Always ready to help
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