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FTMO - For serious traders

  • #6,901
  • Apr 12, 2021 10:54am Apr 12, 2021 10:54am
Quoting Koop
{quote} Good man, I wish you luck. BTW, maybe you should suspend "creating systems" and give manual trading a shot for a little while. Get an understanding of the basic workings of repeated price patterns and movements. I believe the knowledge alone could give your systems some edge. My problem with Automated trading is the inability to optimally filter signals. Every signal that meets the hard wired parameters set by the coder is taken regardless of market conditions, news events, market phase, etc.
Systems, whether automatic or not, are just the same: systems.

Quote
Get an understanding of the basic workings of repeated price patterns and movements.

That's also automatable.

Quote
My problem with Automated trading is the inability to optimally filter signals. Every signal that meets the hard wired parameters set by the coder is taken regardless of market conditions, news events, market phase, etc.

In fact, it is the contrary. Programming not only allows you to automate everything you mention there. It also lets you to optimally filter signals better than what you can do manually.
Always ready to help
  • #6,902
  • Apr 12, 2021 11:27am Apr 12, 2021 11:27am
Quoting mtako
-Strong traders know enough to have much greater chances to make it in a month. -FTMO have all the statistics needed to make conclusions about optimal challenge offers, not us. -The challenge is not as much for the trader as it is for the holder of funds. So as long as they start loosing too many potential traders to competitors, I dont see them changing anything big.
In theory one can make even 100% a month.
We are talking about a month full of rules. And that you would spend another month if you are even 100$ less from target by month end. So these are limitations. You have task.

Even for the sake of logical look - giving 2 months for for 5% profit target compared to 1 mo for 10% -- is not logical no matter what intentions there may be behind the scene.
always draw trendlines
  • #6,903
  • Apr 12, 2021 12:31pm Apr 12, 2021 12:31pm
Quoting tk5
{quote} In theory one can make even 100% a month. We are talking about a month full of rules. And that you would spend another month if you are even 100$ less from target by month end. So these are limitations. You have task. Even for the sake of logical look - giving 2 months for for 5% profit target compared to 1 mo for 10% -- is not logical no matter what intentions there may be behind the scene.
well it could be like FTMO is trying to see if traders can make 10% under the time pressure and to see if they can control themselves and not over risk and gamble to get to that requirement, maybe they are just trying to get very good traders to trade for them that can handle their emotions, and the 5% on verification maybe it is just to make sure they can make consistent profit, anyway given that 93% of traders fail, it seems FTMO really has pretty good traders that end up trading for them.

thats just my 2 cents, they could make it easier but they wouldnt have very good traders, they would have average traders who would take up their capital and only make 1% a month or go on for months just going up and down in equity, maybe they dont need those kind of traders, they just want the best.
  • #6,904
  • Apr 12, 2021 12:44pm Apr 12, 2021 12:44pm
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} Systems, whether automatic or not, are just the same: systems. {quote} That's also automatable. {quote} In fact, it is the contrary. Programming not only allows you to automate everything you mention there. It also lets you to optimally filter signals better than what you can do manually.
You can program a system to only take signals in a trending environment? Wouldn't this require the use of indicators like moving averages which can be slow to respond to market structure changes or sometimes respond too fast?

I don't know jack shit about Automated trading but I don't believe it's possible. If there was a way an EA could be programmed to accurately determine trend and only buy or sell in trend direction for a few pips, then there would be less EA sellers and more profitable Automated Trading systems.

I don't believe automation eases signal filtering

Quoting PaulMF
{quote} That's also automatable.
You can't automate what you don't understand. One first needs an understanding of the how the markets move/work before they even have a clue how to create mechanical rules/strategies from which an EA can be programmed.
It has to be profitable manually first.
  • #6,905
  • Apr 12, 2021 12:50pm Apr 12, 2021 12:50pm
Quoting Rayder4Life
{quote} well it could be like FTMO is trying to see if traders can make 10% under the time pressure and to see if they can control themselves and not over risk and gamble to get to that requirement, maybe they are just trying to get very good traders to trade for them that can handle their emotions, and the 5% on verification maybe it is just to make sure they can make consistent profit, anyway given that 93% of traders fail, it seems FTMO really has pretty good traders that end up trading for them. thats just my 2 cents, they could make it easier...

yep I look at this way

10% in not always achievable but we all know that ... but what the good traders will do is get themselves a free retry and maybe adjust some risk parameters here and there

a 10% month is achievable IMO But not every month
  • #6,906
  • Apr 12, 2021 1:04pm Apr 12, 2021 1:04pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} You can program a system to only take signals in a trending environment? Wouldn't this require the use of indicators like moving averages which can be slow to respond to market structure changes or sometimes respond too fast? I don't know jack shit about Automated trading but I don't believe it's possible. If there was a way an EA could be programmed to accurately determine trend and only buy or sell in trend direction for a few pips, then there would be less EA sellers and more profitable Automated Trading systems. I don't believe automation...
He's amongst the scamming community that believes one can make millions trading from your laptop on the beach with a magical EA. All the garbage he pukes here is nothing but projection from his own scamming ideology.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,907
  • Apr 12, 2021 1:29pm Apr 12, 2021 1:29pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} He's amongst the scamming community that believes one can make millions trading from your laptop on the beach with a magical EA. All the garbage he pukes here is nothing but projection from his own scamming ideology.
he reminds me of that other douche who has a commercial thread who made an EA for free that was basically low size coin flip EA and float until you have profit who has a youtube channel and says "I am not using this prop firm because it doesn't allow me to have 30% floating DD to obtain the 4% target". Just another scammer
  • #6,908
  • Apr 12, 2021 2:02pm Apr 12, 2021 2:02pm
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} Systems, whether automatic or not, are just the same: systems. {quote} That's also automatable. {quote} In fact, it is the contrary. Programming not only allows you to automate everything you mention there. It also lets you to optimally filter signals better than what you can do manually.

Quoting Koop
{quote} You can program a system to only take signals in a trending environment? Wouldn't this require the use of indicators like moving averages which can be slow to respond to market structure changes or sometimes respond too fast? I don't know jack shit about Automated trading but I don't believe it's possible. If there was a way an EA could be programmed to accurately determine trend and only buy or sell in trend direction for a few pips, then there would be less EA sellers and more profitable Automated Trading systems. I don't believe automation...


If I am not mistaken, Paul is referring to algorithmic trading used in the professional sphere, and Koop to the ones on the web. Two very different levels. Actually there are many different levels, but lets not go there... SO both of you are right brothers, no need to argue about what is what, youre talking about different things and different perspectives on top of that.


Ill probably get hated for sharing this, because I have seen how bad are the opinions so many people here have about it, and rightfully so because of what is accessible to them. But I know from experience that some algorithmic trading is NOTHING like what we see on the web and on this forum ; the basics alone are never going to be sold publicly and even less shared. And it is way way far from this forum s reach.



On another note, this thread has become an insults thread...Hope mod get hard on people being just rude to be rude
If I don't mention SL and/or TP = longer-term setup possibly in the works!
  • #6,909
  • Edited 5:35pm Apr 12, 2021 3:50pm | Edited 5:35pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} You can program a system to only take signals in a trending environment? Wouldn't this require the use of indicators like moving averages which can be slow to respond to market structure changes or sometimes respond too fast? I don't know jack shit about Automated trading but I don't believe it's possible. If there was a way an EA could be programmed to accurately determine trend and only buy or sell in trend direction for a few pips, then there would be less EA sellers and more profitable Automated Trading systems. I don't believe automation...
That is a common misconception. Don't blame anyone to think that way as it is very common to read or hear about the limitations of automated trading. But those limitations, in the terms they are bring to the public do not exist.

I try to explain it a little bit in the lines below.

Quote
You can program a system to only take signals in a trending environment? Wouldn't this require the use of indicators like moving averages which can be slow to respond to market structure changes or sometimes respond too fast?

From an automation perspective, you don't have to rely on moving averages or any other indicator to determine trends. You can but it is not a must. That's a confussion because it is the simplest way to automate a trading robot. Meaning, many coders will only know to code trading robots based on indicators.

I suppose that when you mention market structure, you refer to something like what your buddy Nikosk0 uses in his thread. Well, that is a way to determine trends or the moment to trade based on this concept of market structure. If you carefully look at it, you are just gathering a group of rules that determine entry points. That group of rules can be automated and it's possible to let a trading robot inspect the market till it finds a situation in which that group of rules met. It is not common to see that type of rules in EA development tutorials and in many already created EAs (MetaTrader robots) because it is a little more involved. Anyway, that's possibe.

The good thing about automation is the fact that you can quickly evaluate the potential of any system. If for example Nikosk0 knew how to code that type of robots, he would already know how profitable would had been his system in the past few months (or even years). Also, he could filter his entry signals based on some research over the past. You can filter by news, volatility, etc, and finally get the same trading idea sustained by a more in depth research.

Quote
I don't know jack shit about Automated trading but I don't believe it's possible. If there was a way an EA could be programmed to accurately determine trend and only buy or sell in trend direction for a few pips, then there would be less EA sellers and more profitable Automated Trading systems.

Thanks to bring this to the discussion. That's very important to mention. There are many EA sellers and too little signal sellers. A trading robot shouldn't be sold. It does not make sense. Just think about why someone would sell something that really makes money when that same person can sell signals or management and make money based on profits. Selling good signals or management would be by far more lucrative. And you keep your super money maker machine protected at your own.

Probably, it does no exist such a system that works forever. I think as many of you will do by manual trading, you need to adapt to contexts. In my opinion, you need to adapt the automation to new contexts and that implies to create new systems. Or even diversify with several systems.

Whether those systems are manual or automatic, it does not matter. Any manual system can be automated. The difference relies on knowing how to automate it or not. Whatever you listen for whatever super trader or whatever super programmer says, it does not matter, every system can be automated. Whether it relies on price action, fundamental analysis, chart patterns, etc. It can be automated.

Quote
I don't believe automation eases signal filtering

In many scenarios it does. Take into account that it can scan many markets at the same time. There are tasks that you can't do manually.

For me automation is more than trading robots. It is a research tool. Sometimes brings to light the possibilities you have with some system or filter or market or etc.

Quote
You can't automate what you don't understand. One first needs an understanding of the how the markets move/work before they even have a clue how to create mechanical rules/strategies from which an EA can be programmed.
It has to be profitable manually first.

Yes, you make your research over charts. You get your understanding of how the markets move/work and you finally automate it for two possible reasons:
- Don't having to stay looking at charts to trade.
- Knowing what would had happened with your understanding in the past.


The point was to explain that automation is just the activity by which someone takes a manual system and turns it to a fully or semi automatic system. But the system is the same.
Always ready to help
  • #6,910
  • Apr 12, 2021 4:05pm Apr 12, 2021 4:05pm
Quoting mtako
{quote} {quote} If I am not mistaken, Paul is referring to algorithmic trading used in the professional sphere, and Koop to the ones on the web. Two very different levels. Actually there are many different levels, but lets not go there... SO both of you are right brothers, no need to argue about what is what, youre talking about different things and different perspectives on top of that.


Ill probably get hated for sharing this, because I have seen how bad are the opinions so many people here have about it, and rightfully so because of what is...

You’re absolutely right mtako, algo-trading whereas mainly ‘HFT’ actually is big business within Big Banks organization and is far, far different of what someone call EA trading.
Systems you cannot compare to each other.
  • #6,911
  • Apr 12, 2021 4:13pm Apr 12, 2021 4:13pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} He's amongst the scamming community that believes one can make millions trading from your laptop on the beach with a magical EA. All the garbage he pukes here is nothing but projection from his own scamming ideology.
Very kind again!

You can repeat it a thousand times, that won't make it true.

In case you have forgotten, I post here the too many times you have said something similar:

He's amongst the scamming community that believes one can make millions trading from your laptop on the beach with a magical EA. All the garbage he pukes here is nothing but projection from his own scamming ideology.

Just ignore him. He’s convinced FTMO is a scam at the same time he’s also part of the EA building community that is rife with scammers, fraudsters and hucksters. Total lack of self awareness.

If you look at his posts in other threads he’s an equal
opportunity asshole. Nobody likes him nor thinks he’s any good at coding.
He picks arguments, rants, etc, a general miserable lad.

Muppets like you never accept proof anyway, you’ll claim “photoshop” or other nonsense. You’re just a troll trying to bait others in your whack a mole game. Idiots like you are a dime a dozen here and wholly irrelevant.

That being said, and in the context or resident nitwits ruPauls assertions, I’ll take Deloitte over that idiot any day.

You're wasting your breath on that fool. It's ironic him waving the moral authority flag. He's part of the MQL coding community who's rife with scammers and huckter's. Those who are selling the dream of making millions while sitting on the beach with an EA trading for you.


Quoting Takisd
{quote} he reminds me of that other douche who has a commercial thread who made an EA for free that was basically low size coin flip EA and float until you have profit who has a youtube channel and says "I am not using this prop firm because it doesn't allow me to have 30% floating DD to obtain the 4% target". Just another scammer
Very kind again.

What of all of my comments reminds you to that guy?

What do you think could remind me your comments?:

Ok, You're a dumbass.

as the millenials say.. EAD

This is dumb...

Your arguments are gold!
Always ready to help
  • #6,912
  • Apr 12, 2021 4:18pm Apr 12, 2021 4:18pm
Quoting mtako
{quote} {quote} If I am not mistaken, Paul is referring to algorithmic trading used in the professional sphere, and Koop to the ones on the web. Two very different levels. Actually there are many different levels, but lets not go there... SO both of you are right brothers, no need to argue about what is what, youre talking about different things and different perspectives on top of that. Ill probably get hated for sharing this, because I have seen how bad are the opinions so many people here have about it, and rightfully so because of what is accessible...
Quoting John4y
{quote} You’re absolutely right mtako, algo-trading whereas mainly ‘HFT’ actually is big business within Big Banks organization and is far, far different of what someone call EA trading. Systems you cannot compare to each other.
Well, the difference is big.

I was just trying to point out that every system can be automated. That the discussion on whether trading robots are good or bad does not make sense.
Always ready to help
  • #6,913
  • Apr 12, 2021 4:35pm Apr 12, 2021 4:35pm
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} If for example Nikosk0 knew how to code that type of robots, he would already know how profitable would had been his system in the past few months (or even years). Also, he could filter his entry signals based on some research over the past. You can filter by news, volatility, etc, and finally get the same trading idea sustained by a more in depth research..
i have thought about it. for now i have only tested it in replay mode on tradingview manually. i want to code it at some point but i will not let someone else code it for me. i dont know if it is something that will work or not but if it works (it should work based on the filters i have in mind) i wouldnt want to share it with anyone. it would be password protected/encrypted and all the security i could find i would put it on.

i am not a programmer but i have coded something in the past (like 10 pages on VB, nothing important or hard i believe, took me about 3 months) so i think it might take a few months of research but i should be able do it. (when and if i find the time to put the work on it, might take years)

for the first time i fully agree with you on this paul. and in fact i agree with you on everything on that post i quoted only a few lines.

i do believe any manual system can be coded and maybe to some extent add machine learning in to it. (i am not a programmer hence machine learning might be too much)

robots and indicators take away emotions, that is the big +

since you know somethign works, just code it. (except that stupid martingale and grid systems, they work till you blow up)

Quoting Koop
You can't automate what you don't understand. One first needs an understanding of the how the markets move/work before they even have a clue how to create mechanical rules/strategies from which an EA can be programmed. It has to be profitable manually first.
add this to the equation and if you learn how to code, you're set
offering my system to copy trade. check my link
  • #6,914
  • Apr 12, 2021 6:03pm Apr 12, 2021 6:03pm
Quoting nikosk0
{quote} i have thought about it. for now i have only tested it in replay mode on tradingview manually. i want to code it at some point but i will not let someone else code it for me. i dont know if it is something that will work or not but if it works (it should work based on the filters i have in mind) i wouldnt want to share it with anyone. it would be password protected/encrypted and all the security i could find i would put it on. i am not a programmer but i have coded something in the past (like 10 pages on VB, nothing important or hard i believe,...
Yes, learn to code. And don't worry about encription and password protection. Keep it on your PC and sell management services or signals.

Machine Learning is another world. It could be the end of the algorithmic trading journey. Also, depending on who uses machine learning, it can be dangerous. I could create many "profitable" (over historical data) trading robots in a few hours relying on Machine Learning (and sell them to noobs like Cryptosurf ) that won't be profitable in the immediate future. It can be obscene if not used properly. Maybe, without an important math background wouldn't be of great help if planning to use in an adequate way. It is more suitable to research and finding relations among different market data.
Always ready to help
  • #6,915
  • Apr 12, 2021 6:22pm Apr 12, 2021 6:22pm
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} Yes, learn to code. And don't worry about encription and password protection. Keep it on your PC and sell management services or signals. Machine Learning is another world. It could be the end of the algorithmic trading journey. Also, depending on who uses machine learning, it can be dangerous. I could create many "profitable" (over historical data) trading robots in a few hours relying on Machine Learning (and sell them to noobs like Cryptosurf ) that won't be profitable in the immediate future. It can be...
The latest and easier approach is using MS Excel, taking advantage of its AI capability.
  • #6,916
  • Apr 12, 2021 8:46pm Apr 12, 2021 8:46pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} he reminds me of that other douche who has a commercial thread who made an EA for free that was basically low size coin flip EA and float until you have profit who has a youtube channel and says "I am not using this prop firm because it doesn't allow me to have 30% floating DD to obtain the 4% target". Just another scammer
Agreed. Coders worth their salt don't spend their time trolling and shit posting on a web forum.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,917
  • Apr 13, 2021 2:41am Apr 13, 2021 2:41am
Quoting mixedbags
{quote} The latest and easier approach is using MS Excel, taking advantage of its AI capability.
I didn't know that it MS Excel had added some AI capabilities. Yes, it could be a good start.
Always ready to help
  • #6,918
  • Apr 13, 2021 2:50am Apr 13, 2021 2:50am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Agreed. Coders worth their salt don't spend their time trolling and shit posting on a web forum.
Every time you post some comment against me when I have never posted anything against you, I find it more suspicious.

And if I also consider the fact that you send me private messages trying to persuade me not to post on this thread, the equation narrows the final possible results.
Always ready to help
  • #6,919
  • Apr 13, 2021 2:56am Apr 13, 2021 2:56am
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} Systems, whether automatic or not, are just the same: systems. {quote} That's also automatable. {quote} In fact, it is the contrary. Programming not only allows you to automate everything you mention there. It also lets you to optimally filter signals better than what you can do manually.
I can tell you for a fact that EA work at best for 3 months and there after become useless. The best indicator I have seen in the market for years is a TRADER [HUMAN BEING].

Your view [eyes] and logic on the chart cannot be replicated.
  • #6,920
  • Apr 13, 2021 3:05am Apr 13, 2021 3:05am
Quoting zapcity
{quote} I have the same issue. I started the challenge this week (Monday) and have been trading for the past four days. The stats for Wednesday (10/3/2021) are incorrect within the dashboard. I took two losses that day (but more wins than losses so it was a positive day) and those losses are not showing up in the balance graph. Also the daily summary is not correct for that day. The trading journal is also missing those two line item losses. However the Objectives panel is showing a correct amount for my current profit. The only thing that might...

Hey Zapcity,

Did you get this sorted ? What was their reply ?


I started another free trial today and again the Metrix is not updating but only when stop losses are hit. It does not matter if negative or positive. That amount does not add up to the ''daily summary'' or the ''trading journal''.

I have contacted support and I am waiting for their e-mail reply to see if this gets sorted as I am looking to start a paid challenge.

Bear in mind that I did the same 6 months ago and their reply was that this happens only on the free trial accounts.

However Zapcity is claiming this happens also on the paid challenge. Any paid users that are facing the same issue ? Thanks.
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