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FTMO - For serious traders

  • #6,781
  • Apr 11, 2021 8:23am Apr 11, 2021 8:23am
the last 4 posts from koop, rmg and takis are just lovelly

kudos guys!
offering my system to copy trade. check my link
  • #6,782
  • Apr 11, 2021 8:24am Apr 11, 2021 8:24am
like i tried to show in a previous post, you just have to do some math to see if FTMO can actually pay people from the market or even fees, so lets get to it

you have 1000 people, all go for 100k accounts, thats $650 per person = $650,000
from these 1000 people, lets be generous and say that 70% fail and 30% get funded, and lets say from these 15% lose their account by violating the daily loss and 15% make 10% profit, thats a loss of $5,000 x 150 = -$750,000, and the profit is $10,000 x 150 - 70% = $450,000

so by adding these things up $450,000 - $750,000 = -$300,000 a loss for FTMO

by this GENEROUS math (we all know the statistics are way worse than this) FTMO loses $300k a month, without fees
and with fees they have $552,000 + $450,000 - $750,000 = $252,000 a month

so it makes you think that FTMO might as well not trade on the real market at all, they just take the fees, the people who violate the daily loss, well theres no loss for FTMO as theres no real money anyway, they pay the profitable traders from the fees and they pocket the rest.

if someone thinks this doesnt sounds plausable be free to argue it.
  • #6,783
  • Apr 11, 2021 8:26am Apr 11, 2021 8:26am
Quoting Rayder4Life
like i tried to show in a previous post, you just have to do some math to see if FTMO can actually pay people from the market or even fees, so lets get to it you have 1000 people, all go for 100k accounts, thats $650 per person = $650,000 from these 1000 people, lets be generous and say that 70% fail and 30% get funded, and lets say from these 15% lose their account by violating the daily loss and 15% make 10% profit, thats a loss of $5,000 x 150 = -$750,000, and the profit is $10,000 x 150 - 70% = $450,000 so by adding these things up $450,000...

Even FTMO have said that 93% fail the challenge.
  • #6,784
  • Apr 11, 2021 8:52am Apr 11, 2021 8:52am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Even FTMO have said that 93% fail the challenge.
Correct, which is pretty much the same no matter where one trades. Trader success is based on years of blown accounts and or topping off accounts.

One thing that separates FTMO from the sketchy new players on the scene is they have restrictions on news and weekends to protect accounts.

These other sketchy outfits have zero restrictions. What does that tell you?

As long as FTMO keeps paying me then I’ll keep trading off them.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,785
  • Apr 11, 2021 9:14am Apr 11, 2021 9:14am
Quoting PaulMF
The problem here is to believe that prop-firms are firms that create 1 month challenges to recruit traders. That's not true. And whatever rules or objectives they set, it's the same. Prop-firms don't ask for participation fees, the same no companny ask you to pay for a job interview. The same reason why, no company will ask you to have skills (10% a month or similar) that are not required in their industry. What these business ask for their challenges is something that even the best traders in the world can't reach. That's audited and proved. It...

Good points.

Lets keep in mind that the world is changing. New models can and will emerge. Some will seem, at first glance, very wrong, before becoming prevalent. Some.

Regarding FTMO. It is possible that they, unlike many, do copy, in some ways or another, their successful traders on live accounts. It is possible that they do not, but they know that would mean their end one day and, they are possibly not that kind of company.

This awfully hard challenge to filter out as quickly as possible the potential good from the bad and manage them differently through different stages beyond the 60 days brings up red flags for anyone who knows enough about trading, evidently.

And of course 60 days is not enough, of course the challenge is bad if viewed a certain way, and attracts many people that have convinced themselves, way before encountering FTMO, that they have what it takes at this very moment.

But for many, they are a godsend. Some could not have real accounts for months to get funding. Some know that the 30 challenge is extremely tough, that for them maybe 3% is their usual average. But they have done their homework, to increase their chances for a challenge to be passed, and another. They know they have to do what they have to do to raise their chances, ,done all analysis necessary, retake the free challenge if 1$ in profit fi they have to, compound profits and rise at the very last days, do whatever it takes, according to their strategies, to raise their chances and perhaps get in for the long haul, in the hopes that they continue to be a trustworthy company and pay out.

They know the chances, according to their usual returns, that that given month, they will get that 1 return/drawdown ratio, and the next evaluation that they will get no less than .5 r/dd.

Thats why ftmo give you free retakes, if in profit ... the trader know their chance of ending in profit in a months time. Suddenly, another month is added, perhaps that is the one return/drawdown will be 1. If not, the next. Chances are greater every month. They take the challenge because they know the chances of making 1 r/dd ratio, any given months, and know theyll eventually get there. Or else, they would not take the challenge and waste their time.

It is not for anybody. Without the hard work and perfect knowledge of their own strategies applied to the conditions of the challenges, it is just gambling.

But FTMO is not the culprit when a gambler or someone who has not done their work comes along, just as good brokers are not. Good trustworthy brokers have highleverage that if used, guarantees the loss of most, and all pros know this, and they know this, but it doesnt make them responsible for how some use this highleverage, just as FTMO is not responsible for how some take their challenge blindly.
If I don't mention SL and/or TP = longer-term setup possibly in the works!
  • #6,786
  • Apr 11, 2021 9:14am Apr 11, 2021 9:14am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} One thing that separates FTMO from the sketchy new players on the scene is they have restrictions on news and weekends to protect accounts.
Or just some rules to protect their business model, that can make a trader lose their account and buy other challenges.
  • #6,787
  • Apr 11, 2021 9:22am Apr 11, 2021 9:22am
Quoting mtako
{quote} But for many, they are a godsend. Some could not have real accounts for months to get funding. Some know that the 30 challenge is extremely tough, that for them maybe 3% is their usual average. But they have done their homework, to increase their chances for a challenge to be passed, and another. They know they have to do what they have to do to raise their chances, ,done all analysis necessary, retake the free challenge if 1$ in profit fi they have to, compound profits and rise at the very last days, do whatever it takes, according to their...
This right here is everything.
  • #6,788
  • Apr 11, 2021 9:22am Apr 11, 2021 9:22am
Quoting Koop
{quote} if you think 10% for just one month where you have to give it your all, is possible, why the hell would you not want to try and get "funded" to make as much profits as you can before the ship sinks?
This is where I'm at. I have a small personal trading account. I looked into FTMO maybe 18 months ago but 10% in 30 days was not achievable then. My trading is finally to the level that passing the challenge is probably doable for me. I intend to start the challenge soon. I want a paycheck from trading.

A few days ago in this thread I asked if FTMO was set up for the long haul (10+ years), how is the business sustainable? Perhaps my question is too vague or perhaps it just doesn't have an answer. One wasn't given.

I don't want to pass the challenge, get a few checks, and then have FTMO crash. I'd have to return to trading my tiny account.

Perhaps the answer is as others are already doing. Diversify. Qualify with a few of the most reputable firms and cross your fingers at least one stays afloat for the foreseeable future. Take some of the earnings and grow my personal account into 100k.
  • #6,789
  • Apr 11, 2021 9:30am Apr 11, 2021 9:30am
Quoting Koop
Btw, Just as some have considered that maybe FTMO copies only a few consistently profitable traders, it sounds somewhat plausible but i would think the whole process of screening those traders would be really cumbersome and stressful. IMO i honestly do not think everyone's trades are copied as is (if infact trades are even copied), rather i believe the wise thing a "Prop firm" would do is take only a small fraction or half of the position sizes being traded by funded traders and maybe increase along the way. That way, they make more money on profitable...
yeah, you said it Koop!

And if they do trade live, they wouldnt be copying 100% any traders right from the end of the evaluation. I would gradually build up the % on the live, according to their trading results afterwards, little by little, month after month. Take some of my 30% from the real, probably no more than 10%, to compensate the payouts of the younger ones. For my first years, perhaps need some of that failed challenge $ to compensate also, but have a plan to scale that down as the number of veterans raise.
If I don't mention SL and/or TP = longer-term setup possibly in the works!
  • #6,790
  • Apr 11, 2021 9:32am Apr 11, 2021 9:32am
Quoting Rayder4Life
like i tried to show in a previous post, you just have to do some math to see if FTMO can actually pay people from the market or even fees, so lets get to it you have 1000 people, all go for 100k accounts, thats $650 per person = $650,000 from these 1000 people, lets be generous and say that 70% fail and 30% get funded, and lets say from these 15% lose their account by violating the daily loss and 15% make 10% profit, thats a loss of $5,000 x 150 = -$750,000, and the profit is $10,000 x 150 - 70% = $450,000 so by adding these things up $450,000...

If they plan to stay alive and grow, they do not do this alone ! They would bust one day, like they all do. Nice calculations mate !
If I don't mention SL and/or TP = longer-term setup possibly in the works!
  • #6,791
  • Apr 11, 2021 9:33am Apr 11, 2021 9:33am
Quoting caviarblue
{quote} Or just some rules to protect their business model, that can make a trader lose their account and buy other challenges.
Yeah and FTMO is to blame right? FTMO clearly states what you can and can't do before you pay for a challenge, you choose to go ahead and give them your money, only to break the rules that you initially accepted as "okay", then cry when things don't go your way that the rules are too bad and are only there to make you fail.
Sounds like people need to start taking more responsibility for their own shortcomings.

I paid for the MFF biweekly 10% bonus thing about a month ago and recently violated their consistency rules. As ridiculous as the consistency thing is, It was my fault. i knew the rules were there when i signed up and i still chose to because unlike FTMO they do not require a Valid ID which i don't currently have.
Other people are making money regardless of the rules, so why would i blame the company for my own inability to stay within the confines of the rules which i agreed to at the start? Smh
  • #6,792
  • Apr 11, 2021 9:37am Apr 11, 2021 9:37am
It should be on the site, but I can't seem to find it.

Does FTMO allow news trading and weekend positions?

Thanks.
  • #6,793
  • Apr 11, 2021 9:43am Apr 11, 2021 9:43am
Quoting kCBHk
It should be on the site, but I can't seem to find it. Does FTMO allow news trading and weekend positions? Thanks.
https://ftmo.com/en/faq/can-i-trade-news/

https://ftmo.com/en/faq/do-i-need-to...ons-overnight/
  • #6,794
  • Apr 11, 2021 9:44am Apr 11, 2021 9:44am
Quoting Koop
{quote} I paid for the MFF biweekly 10% bonus thing about a month ago and recently violated their consistency rules. As ridiculous as the consistency thing is, It was my fault. i knew the rules were there when i signed up and i still chose to because unlike FTMO they do not require a Valid ID which i don't currently have. Other people are making money regardless of the rules, so why would i blame the company for my own inability to stay within the confines of the rules which i agreed to at the start? Smh

Thats rare on FF, someone owning up ! Nice breath of fresh air ! Not requiring a valid ID, really ?!!
If I don't mention SL and/or TP = longer-term setup possibly in the works!
  • #6,795
  • Apr 11, 2021 9:45am Apr 11, 2021 9:45am
Quoting claudia1
{quote} https://ftmo.com/en/faq/can-i-trade-news/ https://ftmo.com/en/faq/do-i-need-to...ons-overnight/
Thanks.
  • #6,796
  • Apr 11, 2021 10:05am Apr 11, 2021 10:05am
The best traders in the world can make an averange of 20-30% year. Chances to get 10% in a month are too low. And chances to get 5% in 2 consecutive months perhaps don't exist. And that's what FTMO ask you to do.

Let's say some trader decides to go ahead. The trader (one among 1,000 by chance reaches this scenario) would have to attempt several times to finally reach those objectives and get funded. If you pay 155 euros for every attempt and you need, in the best scenario, 10 attempts, then you will have paid 1,550 euros ($1,850).

You get "funded" with $10,000 and can only risk $1,000. That is less than what you have paid. You can open an account with $1,850 in a regulated broker and trade in some audited enviroment in which just 20% a year leads you to more than $1,000,000 under management.

This FTMO thing is addressed for people that do not have the knowledge required to trade and haven't spent some time reading about the real profits professional traders reach.

FTMO is resposible to mask their busines with the prop-firm term. It is resposible because it makes too much money with it. It is resposible because this is an unethical behaviour. It is responsible because the most part of their income comes from those that have gambling addiction.

This FTMO model and similars are casino businesses mask behind prop-firms. It is a clear case where regulatory bodies will finally interfere and legislate to avoid this type of frauds. These wrongly-called prop-firms will finally have to add some legal notice to their sites and be regulated as casinos or betting businesses. The debate will end then.
Always ready to help
  • #6,797
  • Apr 11, 2021 10:17am Apr 11, 2021 10:17am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Correct, which is pretty much the same no matter where one trades. Trader success is based on years of blown accounts and or topping off accounts. One thing that separates FTMO from the sketchy new players on the scene is they have restrictions on news and weekends to protect accounts. These other sketchy outfits have zero restrictions. What does that tell you? As long as FTMO keeps paying me then I’ll keep trading off them.
I don't believe the news/weekend restrictions have anything to do with protecting accounts. As I've surmised before, I think it's more about the potential costs associated with employee labor hours having to deal with endless complaints about bad order fills because of slippage/spikes/spreads during news/weekend gaps etc.

I'm trading a 100K funded account now and can't open a 0.1 lot trade 2 minutes before a news event but I can open a 50 lot trade 3 minutes before a news event with no SL/TP. Imho, they aren't concerned about account risks during news events. If they were they would have leverage restrictions per account size during regular trading hours.

By the way, my first profit split is today. Traded horribly for the month but managed to eke out a whopping 1.29%. At least I'll get my fee refund and some extra lunch money and will be freerolling on FTMO's dime from here on out.

I better brush up on my photoshop skills to fake all of my payout screenshots to satisfy Paula's conspiracy theory concerns.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #6,798
  • Apr 11, 2021 10:26am Apr 11, 2021 10:26am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} I don't believe the news/weekend restrictions have anything to do with protecting accounts. As I've surmised before, I think it's more about the potential costs associated with employee labor hours having to deal with endless complaints about bad order fills because of slippage/spikes/spreads during news/weekend gaps etc. I'm trading a 100K funded account now and can't open a 0.1 lot trade 2 minutes before a news event but I can open a 50 lot trade 3 minutes before a news event with no SL/TP. Imho, they aren't concerned about account risks...
Well done on your account. The point I was making was if FTMO’s sole purpose was fee driven, then why bother with the restrictions they currently have.

The latest prop firms on the scene have higher payouts, lower fees and loose restrictions. People are attracted to these dreaming of the higher commission, not realizing the lesser restrictions give them a greater path to blowing their account.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,799
  • Apr 11, 2021 10:26am Apr 11, 2021 10:26am
Read this than you know why most traders lose

https://tradeciety.com/24-statistics...rs-lose-money/


CONCLUSION :Why Most Traders Lose Money Is Not Surprising Anymore
After going over these 24 statistics it’s very obvious to tell why traders fail. More often than not trading decisions are not based on sound research or tested trading methods, but on emotions, the need for entertainment and the hope to make a million dollars in your underwear. What traders always forget is that trading is a profession and requires skills that need to be developed over years. Therefore, be mindful about your trading decisions and the view you have on trading. Don’t expect to be a millionaire by the end of the year, but keep in mind the possibilities trading online has.
  • #6,800
  • Apr 11, 2021 10:27am Apr 11, 2021 10:27am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} I don't believe the news/weekend restrictions have anything to do with protecting accounts. As I've surmised before, I think it's more about the potential costs associated with employee labor hours having to deal with endless complaints about bad order fills because of slippage/spikes/spreads during news/weekend gaps etc. I'm trading a 100K funded account now and can't open a 0.1 lot trade 2 minutes before a news event but I can open a 50 lot trade 3 minutes before a news event with no SL/TP. Imho, they aren't concerned about account risks...
I have said it too much times: not interested in one user payouts.

Sorry Tomas. Just interested in FTMO accounts, viability and ethics of their business. Fake users uploading fake statements as we have seen already does not help.

No conspirancy theories from my side. All conjectures argumented and based on my knowledge in the field. All of them easily refutable with simple proofs. When simple proofs are easy to show and don't show, leads me to think what I think: this is a fraud.

Too many fake users posting in this thread is what FTMO uses to defend its business. They don't use a simple proof of their trading business because they don't have it. Otherwise, they'll do it.
Always ready to help
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